Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Can the 568.2 interpret Advanced Audio Codecs on Blu-Ray Players

I own the 568.2 processor. I tested the Sony PS3 and the up-converted PCM was awesome. I am now in the market for a Blue-Ray player, I am leaning towards Sony BDP-300. Should I be concerned as to whether the player will have the ability to process advanced codecs such as DD+, True HD, DTS HDHR, or DTS HD MA? Or will the 568.2 just interpret the PCM and up-convert it regardless to the audio codec. If the 568.2 wont interpret the audio codecs, then why pay more for the advanced audio codecs? Please put the answers in laymans terms, I think I have a grasp of what I am trying to ask

Samuel, development of the 568.2 software is to all intents and purposes finished. Meridian has not announced how it will handle multi-channel PCM or audio bitstreams (existing and new formats) over HDMI. Currently, there are only two ways of getting multi-channel audio into the 568.2. Either a lossy DD/DTS bitstream, or lossless PCM (MHR encrypted or unencrypted) which requires a 568.2 with the MM (smartlink) input.

Unless Meridian produces an external decoding box that accepts HDMI inputs, decodes, and outputs multi-channel over the 3x SPDIF MM link, then you will always be limited to what any player can pass over a single coax or optical link. This will be either two channel uncompressed PCM or a vanilla DD or DTS bitstream.

My understanding is that all Blu-Ray discs *should* provide a compressed multi-channel soundtrack that is backwards-compatible with older, non-HDMI-enabled, processors, whether this be vanilla DD, DTS, re-encoded lossy DD/DTS from a decoded advanced format, or the DTS core from a DTS HD MA soundtrack. This seems to be the case so far, but may not always be true.

Finally, it looks as if it will be possible to modify HD DVD and Blu-Ray players that have multi-channel analogue outputs (excludes the PS3) to provide a 3x SPDIF coax output which can then be fed to a 568.2 with MM input.

If I were you, unless you have a 568.2MM and are prepared to go down the player modification route, I would look for a Blu-Ray player that can decode all of the advanced formats and re-encode them as high bit-rate (lossy) DD or DTS. Personally, I prefer lossy (but good quality) multi-channel to lossless stereo when I watch movies.

just some points of clarification. For blu-ray DTS-HD Ma and DTS-HD HR are composed of a core + additional sountrack. The core is very similar to the lossy DTS we have today. When the player is outputting over digital coaxial it will extract the core stream only and output to your processor. DO bear in mind that the core stream will always be 1.5MBPS, which is the theoretical max as used on DVD but very rarely found in commercial disks (most are 768kbps...) As for Dolby True HD your stuck unfortunately. The blu-ray implementation (unlike the HD-DVD one) is composed of a core track only, and the player will not send anything over coaxial. DD+ is 1.5mbps out of which only a theoretical maximum of 640kbps (up from 512kbps) will be output over coaxial.....

Thats all the theory in place.

Now some suggestions> DONT Go for anything other than panasonic for Blu, their players are by far the best. Wait for BDP30 or BDP50.

Secondly, as you have a 568.2 you most probably have some very good power amps (if they have balanced inputs its even better). I would really recommend you get one of these to replace your 568 for next-gen movie formats.

http://www.onkyopro.com/model.cfm?m=PR-SC885P&class=Preamplifier&p=i

Those are pretty bold statements.

Although I have nothing against Panasonic to say they are the only choice is silly.

Why do you assume he has power amps with a 568.2. There are many a folk that have DSP speakers or may wish to in the future.

Onkyo !! Why are you hanging around here trying to buy cheap 568's? you looking to get his 568 on the cheap or trying to push prices down further.

I'd sit tight on the processor for bit. The 1.5mbs DTS sounds pretty fantastic and would put most any high volume Japan made preamps to shame regardless of the logo's on the front panel.

Most BD players have tradeoffs. Some are cheap and will get you by for the next year until something comes along better. There is no one player that's the best for everyone.

Another important factor is Music. There is very little out there that will touch the 568 for 2 Channel music in Trifield/Music Logic etc.

right: firstly

the BDP50 is the only player with profile 2.0
it is also one of the few that can bitstream every single audio codec available

thirdly it has the Sigma SMP8634 RevC decoder with an adaptive deinterlacer (AND GUESS WHAT ITS THE ONLY Bluray player without the crap NEC deinterlacer chip) and 3:2 pulldown. This is only second to Reon's HQV in upsampling sdDVDs, and considered among many to be the best for native 1080p.


(for comparison sony bdp-s300 is profile 1.0 , cannot bitstream, and has the now dated Sigma SMP8634 RevA + Nec chip combo)

You seem to know a lot about Meridian, but very little about image processing hence i see your statements as being BOLD.

And besides the Onkyo is a professional/custom installer product, which is currently the only pre-pro on the market to support HDMI 1.3a in full.


I dont really care about his 568, and i dont care about your childish comments.

Take care

p.s. which part of "replace your 568 for next-gen movie formats" did you not get? i never suggested the onkyo should be used for anytning other than lossless codecs and video switching.

Ok, before this gets really ugly...

c7775, you have posted some good information (e.g. the detailed specs on the Panasonic BD player), but you have jumped in as a forum newbie with some stuff that was incorrect or at very much at odds with the hammered-out consensus on this forum.

Please bear in mind that whilst you own, and are familiar with, a lot of high end kit, your knowledge of Meridian products is obviously limited.

Most of us here genuinely believe that lossy audio through Meridian products regularly sounds better than lossless audio through the products of mainstream brands (including Onkyo). That is why we are here and why we are (mostly) sticking with Meridian than heading off to Japan (and why the lack of a Meridian HDMI input solution is particularly galling).

The Onkyo processor packs in a tremendous amount of functionality, but it doesn't contain 25 years worth of ground-breaking understanding of digital audio and psycho-acoustics. It doesn't contain proprietry software decoding of audio formats (to avoid the subtly incorrect processing that ends up in stock decoding chips). It is very unlikely that the Onkyo DACs achieve the 20-bit resolution that Meridian DACs do.

You are most welcome here and clearly have much to offer us in your knowledge of kit beyond Meridian, but in only one week you have managed to rile both administrators of this forum!

I would be grateful if you would take some time to become more familiar with Meridian products before you recommend to another newcomer that he junks one of the finest audio processors ever made for something that clearly won't be.

If I was concerned about achieving the best possible sound and video quality from Bluray using my 568.2MM, I'd purchase the latest, greatest Bluray that will decode the hi-rez audio codecs internally and output as PCM. Next, I'd shoot said player off to Shawn Fogg at www.switch-box.com for install of a 3x SPDIF board. Finally you plug the Bluray player into the 568.2MM using a quality component video-to-vga adapter cable from the Bluray's modded output board into the 568's SmartLink digital multi-channel audio input. This would enable 6 channel (5.1) high res PCM audio between player and pre/pro. You can enjoy the full benefit of the latest audio codecs and do it using your current M pre/pro! Video from the player is via HDMI of course. All the above is predicated on your 568.2 being equipped with the MM SmartLink option. The only downside I see is that you'd void the Bluray player's warranty.

Happy Trails!
Vince@Freewheelcycle.com

Vince I know this option looks promising for HD-DVD players, but does this PCM option exist for Blu-Ray players yet? If so which players (all but PS3)?

oh dear. I only made that recommendation because i intent on doing the same thing in my main theather at home , i was going to incorporate the above onkyo for hdcd/dsd/dts-hd/true-hd decoding and have the 568.2 for CD + DVD-audio.

Of course the above would entail swapping cables around, but i thought it would have been worth the hassle

I have done a lot of research on this topic and generally the consensus on my main point of reference (avs) is quite the opposite to what you said. I was solely convinced that lossless playback on a reasonably good grade equipment would outshine my Meridian, hence the reason why i started looking for a new pre-pro (and fast at that!)

nevertheless as most things are i really do intend on buying the onkyo and judging for myself that.

p.s. i have huge respect for the company , and rate the Meridian processors the best (nevertheless i also hold enourmous repsect for halcro/mark levinson/primare/lexicon). Especially for the price of the 500 kit (as you said) there really isnt any substitue for Meridian.

And just to continue on my ramble once and for all, IMO techically speaking Meridian make some of the best mechanisms for CD/DVD reproduction (as well as accuphase/dcs/esoteric)

That said i have a gripe with Meridian power amps, especially their tonality in the upper ranges, and an apparent "sweetness" in the 5-8khz band.

Finally for two channel reproduction, i have some gripe with the lack of neutrality in the vast majority of Meridian products (and believe me i have heard most of them, as a friend of mine is the head of one of their licenced dealers: AVC). I have had the opportunity to sample a 800/861 system along side an accuphase/gryphon/conrad johnson system. One had DSP6000s the other had Wilson Watt Puppys. And put it purely to my taste, but the Meridian was not the better one. it must be said that no processing was done on both systems (bar from eq), but i personally do not believe in anything that alters the analog signature of my source (and of course lets hope that sound engineers are up to their task, which sometimes is not the case)

Anyways thats pretty much all i have to say, and hopefully i wont annoy people any more

Part of the trouble is that many here have DSP loudspeakers so it is impossible to compare systems even if we wanted to. Even with analogue amps and speakers it's not a terribly practical comparison to perform. A lot of us have also heard DVD-A at its very best in an all-digital Meridian multi-channel system and it is very very special. We would love to be able to enjoy lossless soundtracks with movies.

I've found with AVS that there are golden nuggets of information to be found, but it does tend to be "fanboy central". I suspect (but don't know) that many Onkyo owners are either jumping on to the latest and greatest(?) bandwagon because it's the latest and greatest(?) bandwagon or are there because they don't have the $$$ for really high-end kit. The Onkyo may sound great in many systems, but it will never be a Meridian (or Lexicon, etc.). Whether these high-end manufacturers are letting us down or doing the right thing in their cautious approach, I'm not going to debate any more. I just wish owners of Meridian processors knew where they stood.

Please let us know what you think, even if (as is inevitable) it is a subjective opinion.

Hey George,

No reason why Shawn's 3x SPDIF board wouldn't work provided that the player in question decodes the HD audio codecs internally and passes the multi-channel out on HDMI as PCM. Insofar as why the PS3 is a nonstarter- Google "PS3 disassembly". The PS3 case is crammed! I doubt you could fit a housefly inside a PS3 chassis much less an additional circuit board! The PS3's other drawback is the racket it makes. Any sonic benefits of a hi-res digitally connected PS3 would be soundly drowned out by its fan. I just purchased 35' pairs of Blue Jeans HDMI and Toslink cables to move my PS3 and equally noisy Xbox 360 off the gear rack and into my an adjacent closet!

Happy Trails!
Vince@Freewheelcycle.com

Wow! These are some very passionate answers to my question. I am very much interested in VinceHoffman's solution. Because as far as music and HT I have personally never heard anything better than my 568.2MM. I have done Yamaha Rxv1 and others along that line, I cannot go back there.

I have already heard how the PS3 sounds on my 568.2MM and the upconverted pcm rocks. but I was looking for a long term solution (2-3 years) that I can live with.

I am going to look into Hoffman's solution because it makes sense to me. But other alternatives are welcomed. It looks like the Panasonic BDP50 has all the advanced audio codecs and I wouldn't mind modding the BDP out.

Thankyou all.