Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Why has the Meridian Music Server die?

GND- your mac problem was the USB sound card. I ran a mac pro with its internal optical output with no problems.

FWIW, I do hear a difference between the mac and the 800- but not a big difference- its mainly evident on Jazz and Orchestrial music where these exhibit a little more "air" with the 800. I now use the Kaleidescape system- basically its a music server with a DVD player front end- sound is coax out to the 861. Kaleidescape makes bit accurate copies of the sources (DVD/ audio). Sounds identical to my mac and thus I do think the front end can make a difference but its not going to be very noticeable if you are like me and mostly listen to rock/ prog rock.

best regards,
Jerry

Well, Ian. You got me there. But G98DH is much more than a mere transport - it's also a digital preamp and a DVD player that is made primarily for the G68 surround processor. So I think I still I am right when I point out that M. has stopped making dedicated CD transports, and that they recognize that the front end in an all-digital chain is not that important anymore.


JerryL: You might be right. Although i puzzles me while the M-Audio Audiophile USB is good enough for studio engineers, it is not suitable for audiophile home use. I am convinced, though, that some processing was going on that changed the sound. Technical explanation, anyone?

A long time ago all sound cards converted the data to analog and then back to digital as a way to appease a nervous music industry. This could be the case here too. I question whether M Audio USB is really used by studio engineers in the manner they claim. I had an Audio Request that suffered from this PC based D-A/ A-D process and the sound was noticeably affected.

best regards,
Jerry

Disagree with them all you want. Call Bob Stuart "a snake oil salesman" or "behind the times" or "they know nothing about Servers"

But PLEASE don't misrepresent what Bob Stuart (and all Meridian people at shows and interviews) have said consistently throughout the year, which is that the Front End (in an all digital system) does matter and not just in a small way

Meridian have consistently claimed that their CD / DVD Player sales (Units and Sales) are rising significantly (this year and last)

If you were to listen to Bob Stuart at the Hitchhiker Factory Visit; any of the CES / Cedia Q&A's; or any of the large number of Media Interviews Bob has given this year, then he will strongly express the view that the Front End is still VERY important

Anybody who was at the Factory Visit will tell you of Bob's scathing views of Airport Express after they had done some internal testing.

So feel free to have a different opinion and criticise him all you want, but please don't say he's on your side by saying "Meridian don't think the Front End matters in an all Digital Chain"

I would like to see this alleged "proof" beyond someone simply saying that "all the bits arrived at the processor" (Almost akin to an Airline claiming that "All our Passengers arrived safely" without ANY mention of Critical Factors like Did they arrive on Time or were they Late)

Most importantly, I would like to see ANY Test work which tests the TIMING (Real Time Clocking) of the Bits arriving at the downstream Digital Processor from a Server / Airport Express / Squeezbox / Sonos / or equivalent device

Seeing as the quality of the actual digital output connection plays an important (jitter related) role, any Test Work done on 1 Device does not mean that all "similar" devices perform in a similar manner

Ronnie, I agree totally. That's why I remain convinced that M could make a world-beating front end digital source that didn't actually require the real-time spinning of a silver disc. With 30 years of expertise making 1's and 0's sound ever better you'd actually hope so wouldn't you ?

This is all very interesting to me and I am learning a lot from this thread.
At one point in this thread I wrote that I learned from this thread that at the reading stage, as long as all the data is being read, nothing gets deteriorated but after reading more of the comments I understand that even that is a bit tricky:
The M CDPs and DVDPs incorporate multiple readings from the disc to correct errors.
After which there is FIFO buffering and than Up-sampling, re-clocking and Digital to Analogue Conversion.
If the DVD-Rom drive is in charge of the multiple readings it may as well be that this stage is still improtant.
However, since M is using a $20 DVD-Rom drive (I know since I bought one on e-bay once) I cannot think of it as high-end by any stretch.
So I am assuming that it is the controller behind the drive/loader which gives it the command to re-read.
So what if the source was a Hard-Drive instead and the data was already stored/ripped from a collection of CDs?
Would that change matters audio quality wise?
At which point does the sound deteriorate?
Would the pace at which the bits are transferred from a Hard Drive to the FIFO buffering be any different than from the DVD-Rom drive?
Would the Hard Drive be noisier (jitter wise) than a DVD-Rom drive?
Would it require special isolation/treatment?

I ask all of these since I am trying to get to the bottom of the question:
Why does an outside source using the 568 or G68 DAC sounds different than say a G08 or G98?
If there was no compromise in sound quality, I think, given the fact that CDPs and DVDPs sales are rising, that there would be a market for ones which incorporate hard drives and connectivity to allow for convenience without sacrificing audio quality but perhaps I am wrong.

Regards,

Doron

IMO, the problem with discussing high-end spinners in a digital context is that most of the development effort, PR, salespeak and reviews all take into account the player as a whole including analogue output.

So Bob's comments about the 808 being the best CD player in the world (with analogue output) aren't bogus. However, don't expect him to say (when used as a digital transport) "don't bother with an 808, get a G08 or Oppo instead"... He does have a business hat too.

Is it correct to say the spinners perform error correction? I believe it is the custom-written disc control software that provides the superior sound. And that is where Meridian apply their differentiating expertise. Think of putting Michael Schumacher in the driving seat of your domestic car - same car, better control system.

Nick
While past performance is not necessarily an indication of future performance I do think it`s instructive to look at Meridian`s history of making Music Sources

[Flame Suit On]

Meridian make the Best Sounding Sources for Redbook CD Replay
This is a VERY controversial statement and many here (and elsewhere) will undoubtedly disagree. Without question, however, is that Meridian developed the FIRST Audiophile CD player in the MCD and held that lead for a very long time, if not necessarily until today

Meridian make the Best Sounding DVD Player (i.e. not Video performance necessarily)
There is perhaps more agreement on this statement (at least on this forum) Even though the statement is really most valid when the DVD Player is used in conjunction with a Meridian Processor, allowing for 96/24 Upsampled DD and DTS

Meridian make the Best Sounding DVD-A Player
Far more agreement on this statement, even though again it`s most valid when a Meridian Processor is added

So to answer your question, I do very much fancy Meridian`s chance of making a “world beating front end digital source” as we move into the future

As regards “Spinning”, I do not think that the ideal source of the medium-term future will be Spinning anything!!! I believe it will be designed and architected to take advantage of the multiple advantages offered by Solid State memory. This memory will (hopefully) store both Music and Movies for replay. That does not mean that the Source will THE large scale Archive Server, more like a BIG Buffer which would store the Album / Playlist / Movie for the Duration of the listening session

Having said that, I do think that there is likely at least one more short-term Meridian “Spinner” between now and what I`ve outlined above. Hopefully we`ll see that in 2008??????????

Like many here, I wish Meridian would hurry up and offer Processors and Players to take advantage of the newer HD formats, but I do believe they will get there in the end and that we will pleased with the results, if not the prices (that is if we haven`t committed suicide in the interim)

The same custom-written disc control exists in (good) ripping software such as EAC. The difference being that ripping software has no limitation on the number of sector re-reads it wants to make. Even though Meridian players re-read sectors multiple times, there is a limit to the number of re-reads due to real-time playback. To all intents and purposes though, I believe the two solutions (Meridian player -> G68 and EAC rip -> SqueezeBox -> G68) are equivalent.

@SNS
Your selective reading skills are 2nd to none. That counts as the seventh time that you have associated (or implied) my name and your so called “Fancy Cables” diatribe

You have NO Idea (None, Zero, Nada) what Cables I use in my system nor do you have a clue how much I paid for them. I am simply on record within the last several months as saying that the cable used for Interconnect plays a role, but at NO point did I advocate any cable type, manufacturer or cost. My experiences are as a result of trying several different cable manufacturers in my system and selecting the one that I was most happy with.

As regards your statement of my “coming round” on this issue, again you demonstrate your selective reading skills, as at no stage have I backed away from my comments

As regards Meridian and your recent statements that they don`t advocate your “fancy cables”, what Bob Stuart SPECIFICALLY said in the recent Cedia Q&A was that Meridian products were sold with “MATCHING Cables” and changing them was a “User`s Prerogative”. This can be interpreted in several different ways, but it is interesting to note that the Meridian Digital / Comms Cables (as well as the Blue Interconnect Cables) are made SPECIFICALLY for them by Van den Hul, a long standing Cable Manufacturer. Equally interesting is that they don`t outsource this to the cheapest source as I feel sure that Van den Hul would not be the cheapest cable source. No doubt you will read into that whatever you choose, but others will form their own informed conclusions as well


Given Meridian`s 20 years of experience in the Digital world and also given that the EXACT same Optical / Analog connection is used on their F80 product, it`s obvious that the stupid people at Meridian only had Analog cables around when they tested the Airport Express. Given that you “can`t hear a difference” then they off course must be wrong, as no doubt your experience outweighs their combined expertise.

One last time I will say that it is the TIMING of the Bits output by the Synchronous SPDIF output of Airport Express (and other devices) that is Critical, not just that “all the bits were delivered”. And there are Volumes of Information on the Web about the Jitter typically created on the Toslink outputs of many devices and how inferior (in most cases) these are to Coaxial connections. (For the record, there are also big jitter performance differences between Coax connections on different devices) But again your selective reading has chosen to disregard this information when you say “No-one.....can explain why it`s not bit perfect”

One wonders if your demonstrable Selectivity for Reading also applies to your Listening habits.

I`m glad that you are happy with the Airport Express into your system, as it obviously works for you. But please don`t imply that Meridian themselves, and many other Meridian users, are wrong when they claim they hear a difference.