Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems What is Meridians Special Sauce? What is your take

Absolutely. Why don't you have a go with the MConfig program? You can waste loads of time playing with configurations you can't afford!

http://www.Meridian-audio.com/download/setup.exe

I disagree about sound quality with Oppo HD970 and Squeezebox the 598 is much better especially in 2ch. Your speakers are not good enough to tell the deferens. I have compared a lot of CD players 3 to 4 times the prise of 598 and preferred the 598. the G98 is just a bit better than 598 but not worth changing it
Thanks.



System Meridian G68j 598dvd, 2 557, 1 556 power amps, m33center, Sony Bluray bdps1es, Sony pearl 1080p projector. Grndview cyber series 16.9 8-foot electric screen. Panasonic 42in 1080p plasma TV. Front Dali helicon 400, Dali in wall back speakers, Snell ps10sub, Chord signature cables all round. X-box 360HD add on.

I use mainly PLIIx for movies (Cinema is the only other 7.1 movie codec as I recall). I read that PLIIx and other proprietary codecs must always be decoded the same way, no psycho-acoutics allowed. You can call it something else and then add anything you want but you can't call it PLIIx.

Meridian used to write many different codecs but looking at choices on my 568 menu nearly all of them now are PLII or THX.

The psycho-acoustics might come from MHR, that mysterious "enhanced" 24/96 datastream, but to me that is a DAC property.

George

SNS
Three words for you

You`re Dead Wrong

The difference between a CD playing on a Meridian CD / DVD Player and Apple Lossless from a Squeezbox / Sonos is easy to hear. Lossless from a Squeezbox / Sonos is certainly a very convenient way to listen to music and produces a more than acceptable sound in most instances. However, for critical or quality listening, it is quite simply not as good as a regular CD from a Meridian Player

My comments relate to my own experiences of comparing Meridian Players into D8k`s, D6k`s, D5200`s with Apple Lossless from my Sonos system. I also tried Lossless direct from a Media Server as well as a Squeezbox. Hell, the differences between Lossless and CD are relatively easy to hear on an F80

I guess you are entitled to your opinion, even if you are Dead Wrong!!!

I'm with SNS. Tried G91, 598, PS3, SqueezeBox into 861V4 and DSP5500's. I've even collected the data at the speaker and compared it with different sources. It's all the same data going to the speakers. The only thing I didn't check is timing (i.e. jitter). The 861 and the DSP Speakers both dejitter. If the 861 can't dejitter it you'll know it and would require turning off the dejitter circuit (i.e. poor digital source). How much a super transport (improved jitter) can help on top of that arguably requires super human hearing which, I have come to the conclusion, I was not gifted with :-(.

If you really do hear a drop in quality with the Sonos I'd do some digging as to why. A quick sanity check is testing with a DTS RIP.

Easy sbs, I think that's getting bit over the top. I appoligize to Hurely if my post sounded in similar tone, I didn't mean it to be.

In theory 861's can't eliminate all jitter (which has been beaten to death and no need here). What they actually do is spread out the error, so that in theory it`s not audible to the human ear.

Maybe with $100k worth of speakers and 30 years less on the ears you can hear the difference. But at that age I could barely afford the cheapest Radio Shack receiver. I certainly can't physically or financially attain the means to hear the difference. I highly doubt an F80 (as good as it is) could reveal the difference either.

This applies to CD`s properly ripped. All that high end players do is RIP and buffer it in real time. And most of them use even the same DRIVES. Nothing really all that magic to do. And in theory you can do a better job ripping it not in real time. Rereading and repairing the data and taking your dandy old time to do it right.

Again I must respectfully but vehemently disagree

If Bits really were just bits (as stated above) then there would simply be no difference between ANY CD Players with a Digital Out into a G61 / G68 / 861. They would ALL sound the same.

This means that there would be NO difference between some of the Sony CD Walkman`s with Optical out, some CD Clock Radios` with Optical out, some Apple, Dell, Toshiba and HP laptops with Optical out, a $100 Walmart CD Player and a Meridian / Wadia or similar player. If that`s the argument, then I would quite simply and completely disagree

I think we should ALL be aware that there are THOUSANDS of scientifically knowledgeable people over at AVS Forums (and similar Forums) who would SARCASTICALLY LAUGH at OUR choice of Meridian Processor as they would vehemently maintain that there is no difference between the De-Jittering and Processing characteristics of a $500 Sony / Pioneer integrated Amp and a Meridian Processor. They would pose similar “Bits are Bits” and “I can`t hear any difference” arguments to the ones posted above. (Even a cursory look at AVS Forums will confirm this)

I wouldn`t imagine that you consider that you have the “Superhuman” hearing that they maintain is necessary to hear the difference between your Meridian processor and CE Integrated Amps. Likewise, I would maintain that I (and many others on this board, and elsewhere) can hear a difference. We don`t claim ANY “Superhuman” abilities, but we do claim we can hear a difference.

In the same way as your abilities to hear Processor differences should not be dismissed out of hand, our abilities to hear Player differences should not be simply dismissed as somehow “biased” or lacking in knowledge about A/B Testing or how to Rip CD`s.


SNS (responding to your specific Taunts)
Funnily enough I think it is you bias that shows thru when you manage to mention “Expensive Cables” twice in your post even though I didn`t mention cables even once in mine.

As regards having no experience of Ripping CD`s, all I can do is laugh. Suffice it to say that I find it ASTONISHING that there is little or no mention on this board about HOW to perform a proper Rip. There is no mention of what Operating Systems are best (and there are many documented and significant differences between OS Kernels) Likewise there is no mention of the importance of Sound Cards (and most importantly their Drivers) when Ripping CD`s. You may think it doesn`t matter but it does

You`re entitled to your opinion but not to dismiss others` opinions out of hand

Enough said

One more thing to add is regarding the F80 performance

George, I have huge admiration for the amount of work and time that it must take for you to maintain this forum and I also have great respect for your opinions

Unfortunately, I must respectfully disagree with your blanket statement about the F80 being unable to reveal the difference between CD and Lossless Replay.

While this may be true for many forms of music, it is easy to discern a difference when playing well recorded Jazz sessions; Piano solos, some Female Vocals and most Operatic Vocals

Play Joni Mitchell "Blue"; much of Laura Nyro; early Van Morrisson; Horace Silver "Song for my Father"; Pavorotti / Mirella Freni / Von Karajan "La Boheme" from 1972; or any Yo Yo Ma or Ashkenazy recording and I will be able to tell you the difference between CD and Lossless on an F80 (never mind MP3)

Play much of Bob Dylan; Neil Young; Bruce Springsteen; REM; Arcade Fire; RadioHead; Jeff Buckley; Amy Winehouse and I will struggle mightly to tell the difference between CD and Lossless on an F80 (not true for MP3 by the way)

So the F80 can reveal differences, just not for all types of music or artist. I might describe the difference as being akin to different years of the same wine

Now if the F80 can resolve audible differences, then imagine what a Meridian Player into M Processor and M Speakers can do. Here the differences are more akin to the differences between 2 different Wines or 2 different Beers!!!

My 2 sixpacks worth!!!

Are you are saying that it's impossible to rip accurately or that a lossless media player plugged into an F80 won't sound as good as the F80 CD player?

For me it's the architecture. It is all much more intelligently designed than many other high end makes. They've looked at things from scratch to get to the best solution, rather than carrying on legacy traditions. Everything is provably better, not just hifi bullsh!t. There is so much magic invoked at the high end that it's refreshing to see things engineered rather than conjured from a cauldron.

I love the DSP architecture (but can't afford to switch to it yet). I love the way the G68 has been engineered. It is as much a card based architecture as an 861. The PSU, display and volume controls are the only things not card based. It will be purely a marketing decision whether cards come out for it, I reckon.

I've been off for a while, and have seen some disillusionment on here with the lack of recent progress for HDMI and the like. To be honest, I think I'd stick with Meridian even if they never had it. The sound is breathtaking. I'm confident that what is inside the box is about as good as it can be. That's more important than the latest interconnects.

So for me, the special sauce is confidence in the designers.

Cheers,

Mark.

Oops - walked into a hornet's nest there, sorry. Beginner's mistake - I replied on screen 1!

RHurley,
A couple of comments:

1. Re bits are bits & AVS forum members:

I think it is fairly safe to say that it is possible to see measureable differences in the analog output signal of a processor - even a Meridian - that are caused by jitter or other effects linked to different physical DAC - transport interfaces. I don't think that even hard line objectivists would contest this.

What a great processor like a Meridian does is minimize jitter related differences by effectively suppressing jitter and therefore its affect on the analog output. What is debateable is whether the residual jitter differences - post effective attentuation - result in audible differences. Some insist "yes" others look at the low level of these effects and say that any differences are highly unlikely to be jitter related.

I'm not sure it is entirely fair to say that most/many AVS members would insist that there are no audible differences between processors (or players). There are so many differences between processors/players that could reasonably result in significant measureable and likely (IMHO) audible diffences - not least the different DACs and analog output stages.

2. On ripping:

I'm not sure what relevance a sound card has to ripping. Ripping typically involves the ROM drive, OS (including ROM drivers), ripping software and write media. I'm not trying to be combative just want to ensure I understand what you meant...?

FWIW, I have found that with a good clean CD (vast majority of my CDs) I can rip using ITunes and a Sony ROM drive at fairly high speed and get a perfect rip - compared to using a Plextor ROM drive with EAC + accuraterip. I guess this is not surprising given CDs CIRC encoding and a clean disk. I also doubt that the real time reading and error correction of most players is much better than most computer based ripping solutions and almost certainly not as good as what EAC etc. can achieve - especially if the disk is in less than perfect condition...But then again is this really relevant to audible quality..?

Paul.