Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Report from CEDIA (Long!)

REPORT FROM CEDIA 2001


Introduction

First of all, on behalf of all forum members, I would like to extend our thanks to Bob, Andrew, Colin, Dave, Andy, Norm, Ken and Jason (I hope I didn`t leave anyone out) for taking so much time to speak with us both before, during and after the exclusive presentation they did for us Sunday morning. I for one spoke with each of them at length on Saturday and Sunday, and all of them were friendly, forthcoming and patient, answering all of my questions. Although I had exchanged e-mail, spoken on the phone and met with many of them in person on other occasions, it was a real pleasure to have the chance to talk with them about what is so near and dear to our hearts, and obviously theirs. They truly are dedicated not only to bringing us the best possible audio/video reproduction, but treating us as valued customers on a very personal level.

With that introduction, I am sure that I can expect an 860.3, 861.3, five DSP8000s and a pair of DSP5500s to arrive at my home any day now for an extended loan. My preference for the DSP8000s would be British racing green, but any of the other colors - black, burgundy, blue, yellow, red and purple - would suffice. Should that system arrive, I promise to review it and post my impressions here for everyone`s benefit.

The folks at Meridian are just like us - they review the forum every morning with their coffee to see what is on our minds, and I believe they take seriously (for the most part anyway!) our ideas for improvements - particularly in the area of added features and user interface issues. So let`s keep that in mind when we post.

That being said, they did want to make a couple of points:

1. They believe it is inappropriate for them to participate in our forum. They believe that it is best for it to remain a forum for the exchange of information and ideas among end-users - a club if you will. They are concerned that their participation might influence and steer the discussion and perhaps lend a commercial slant to the discussions. Nevertheless, Andy in particular mentioned that it often difficult not to jump right in and answer a question or clarify a misconception.

2. They are also concerned about giving out too much information about where they are headed with upgrades and new products. They obviously don`t want to tip their hand to their detriment vis-à-vis their competitors.

3. Finally, with respect to upgrades, they asked us to be patient. They understand that we are among their most devoted (fanatical) followers and want them to continue to push the envelope, but we need to be mindful that there are forces which are outside their control (e.g., with respect to DVD-A, the breaking of the encryption by the Norwegian, watermarking, etc.) which influence both how and when they bring upgrades and new products to market. In particular, they do not want to raise our expectations too high and then not be able to deliver within their originally stated time frame if something not within their control occurs. They also want to make sure they do it absolutely right and, frankly, they are a lot smarter than we are not only about the technology itself, but where the industry is headed. From their remarks, it is obvious that they are looking at things from a much longer-term perspective than we are. In other words, they are thinking strategically. An example of this is the 800. They know that early adopters of the 800 have been frustrated at the lack of upgrades. However, they did not want owners to have to upgrade the processor card a couple of times when they knew what their goal was with respect to the machine and the relatively short time-frame was to get there. More on upgrades to the 800 in a minute.

Upgrades

861.3 Surround Processor

The 861 is getting a new processor - a Motorola 56367 running at 150Mhz - which provides approximately 500 MIPS of computational power. Up to eight processors can be added in the future. The new processor was required to extend the life of the machine - it has significant excess capacity so that new features can be added for the foreseeable future without the need for a further upgrade.

They said that one reason for the delay in introducing the room correction board was that the existing processor was insufficient. Although they gave no definite time for the introduction of the room correction board, they are now in a position from a hardware standpoint to do so.

In connection with the new processor, all of the software has been rewritten with new algorithms in 48-bit precision. You will now be able to playback 96kHz in all eight channels (7.1) (both native and upsampled). Playback at 192kHz can be implemented in the future as well.

There will be a new digital input card, which can be configured as 2 six-channel inputs or any combination of multi-channel and stereo inputs.

There also will be a new analogue input card, which can be configured as 2 six-channel inputs or any combination of multi-channel and stereo inputs. This card will be available in both a single-ended (RCA) and balanced (XLR) version. It will have “extremely high quality” analog to digital conversion. Presumably this will be the optimal card for both stereo and multi-channel SACD input.

Finally, there will be new analog output cards utilizing 192/24 DACs.

800.3 CD/DVD Player

The 800 will also have significant upgrades. In addition to improvements in the audio and video performance, there will be better on-screen display and navigation. The 800 will be available in two configurations - two channel or six channel. There will be cards for AC-3 and DTS, so that you will not need to have an 861 if you do not want or need the extra features the 861 provides. A multi-channel 800 and DSP speakers will provide a core system. However, if you have an 800 with the on-board decoders and feed it to an 861, you can listen to upsampled DD and DTS!

The time frame for the 800.3 and 861.3 upgrades is the end of the years. Both units will need to go back to Atlanta or Huntington for the surgery.

568 and 596

The 568 will be getting the same new processor as the 861, and thus will be able to handle DVD-A and upsampling in eight channels. The 596 will be upgradeable to DVD-A as well. The DVD-A interface has not been determined however. There are a couple of options they are considering. I do not believe they gave a firm date for the 568 and 596 upgrades. CES might be a good time to expect an announcement. Again, they asked us to be patient

Analog

Meridian introduced a new CD player - the 507. It supersedes the 506 and, like the 588, was necessitated by the discontinuance of the transports used in the 506/508. It uses the same DVD-ROM drive as the 588, but does not have balanced (XLR) outputs. It uses 192/24 DACs.

They also introduced a new high power stereo amplifier - the 559 - based on the technology developed for the amplifiers in the DSP8000s. It provides 300 watts/channel at 8 ohms. It is sufficiently robust to handle 2 ohm loads. It sports two very large transformers and I believe is a true dual mono-block design.

Meridian acknowledged that they had not gotten the word out as well as they would have liked that they also make stellar analog products like the 504 tuner and their full range of amplifiers (551 integrated and 505, 556, 557, 558 and 559 power amplifiers), and their digital products work exceedingly well in traditional (non-DSP speaker) setups. They have initiated an ad campaign to address that perceived shortcoming.

Demonstration

Cast of Equipment

The demonstration room was set up with the following:

800.3
861.3
DSP8000s - left, center, right and rears
DSP550s - sides
DSP33s - front left and right height channels
Runco projector
Stewart Filmscreens screen
Snell and Wilcox interpolator - card based in the 800.3
Furman power conditioning
Transparent digital, communications and video cables
Standard Demonstration

The standard demonstration opened with a pretty funny Monty Python-esque clip of two members of Spinal Tap talking about the introductory screen to their DVD. Andrew then moved through a fairly introductory description of Meridian products and the new specifications for the 861.3 and 800.3. He played a music video by an artist unknown to me - laid back guitar and singing. My notes are sketchy - I believe it was two channel replayed in Trifield. The next piece was a jazz piece called Lighthouse Blues (featuring the xylophone) recorded by Chesky in 2 +2 +2 - meaning front left and right, front left and right height, and rear left and right surrounds. The recording was very spacious and created a real sense of being in an intimate jazz club. Apparently John Atkinson listened to the demo on Friday, and having been at the original recording, told Bob that that was exactly what it sounded like live. They then played a clip from the recent Jackie Chan film “Shanghai Noon”. What can I say - the audio and video were spectacular. They finished up with “Smoke on the Water” - an oldie but goodie. Contrary to Andrew`s suggestion, no one moved the chairs back to play air guitar. Where is Corey Greenberg when you need him!

VIP Demonstration

The special demonstration occurred Sunday morning at 9:00. Since the show didn`t open until 10:00, Andy came out to escort us in. There were only about ten of us gathered there. Apparently several forum members as well as some people that participate over at the AVS forum were unable to stay over. Either that or they couldn`t get out of bed after a fabulous Bonnie Raitt concert that had gone one until 1:00 the night before. Jaco, your absence was duly noted, and your four virtual tickets to seats in the center of the front row were quickly snapped up. Although small, our contingent was clearly passionate about audio/video and Meridian in particular.

The demonstration started out with the Jackie Chan clip and then moved to a long-awaited medley of DVD-As. The first was a Joni Mitchell song record in 5.1, 96/24 MLP with a standard “forward” presentation - i.e., with instruments across the front, voice in the center and ambiance in the rear. It obviously sounded great. Next up was an acapella choir recorded on the AIX label. This was recorded with the singers in a semicircle around a microphone with the listener being near the microphone position. Bob noted that a number of performers were beginning to explore different ways to provide music utilizing surround sound - something Mick Fleetwood (Fleetwood Mac) refers to as “the experience bubble”. Next were three selections recorded in the 2+2+2 format - “Spooky” with Christy Baron from David Chesky`s first DVD-A sampler, a Mozart piece recorded by MDG, a small German label, and the Lighthouse Blues piece from David Chesky`s second DVD-A sampler which had been played during the standard demonstration. The last piece was a Telarc recording in 5.1 of Dvorak`s New World Symphony, which really showed off the dynamic capabilities of the DSP8000s. All of the recordings demonstrated not only how great Meridian gear sounds, but what creative possibilities these new high-resolution formats present both to the artists and the recording engineers. I listen primarily classical music and the Mozart piece blew me away. It is the closet thing I have yet heard to a live performance.

Bob`s Presentation

Bob then made some opening comments, ran through the upgrades to the various components outlined above, and answered our questions. I have incorporated many of his responses to our questions in the Introduction and Upgrades sections above. I have two other bits (a byte?) of information in my notes. First, Bob said that analogue bypass didn`t make any sense. Given Meridian`s general philosophy that didn`t come as much of a surprise. Since the analogue bypass is really an issue about what to do with SACD (so you don`t convert DSD to analogue in the SACD player, and then convert that analogue to PCM and the PCM back to analogue in the processor and/or DSP speaker), I believe Meridian`s response is their emphasis on the new “extremely high quality” analogue to digital cards developed for the 861. Secondly, Bob said that he felt DSD was inferior to PCM in that it generated extremely high amounts of noise in the very high frequencies which, although theoretically well beyond the range of human hearing, he felt caused DSD recordings to have a bright, yet soft focused, treble.

Although given the time constraints, we did not get to run through every question posted on the forum, hopefully many of the larger questions have been answered. I did my best to take accurate notes; however, if I missed something or stated something inaccurately, I hope the other forum members who attended will step in a fill any holes and correct or clarify anything I may have misstated.

Thank again to everyone at Meridian. I hope you`ll extend the invitation to us again.

[This message has been edited by Frank (edited 09-10-2001).]

Frank,
thanks for the report- its almost as good as being there!


I agree with Meridian. When they wanted to reach us directly- they did post here and when they want to reach us b/c we have a question/ etc they can email. I appreciate their discipline.

I agree.


no problem. what I like about Meridian, is that when they bring a product to market- it is a sophicistated product that is refrence quality.

- Jerry

I don't quite agree with that, since they are the only manufacturer discussed in this forum, it could be pretty obvious who is representing whom. This is unlike in a general audio forums where mfg representative keeps a thread going and generate interest for their own product. There has been too many times, in this forum, where speculation and wild goose chase on some features that are not clearly specified, with the thread going on forever. A easy answer from Meridian could have easily resolved it. Other times, obvious bugs have been posted, but if it is not directly forwarded to Meridian, it will sit in limbo and never get resolved (some bugs probably still sit in limbo, even when reported directly to Meridian.) Wouldn't it be easier for Meridan to post and say we are working on it so that everyone knows what is going on instead of everyone encountering the problem and reporting it own their own? They don't have to get involved, going back and forth in discussions like the DD/DTS issue of late, but just act like some omni-present entitiy that will jump in once in a while to clarify/settle things once and for all, especially if it directly relates to their existing product line.

Of course, we don't want to have this forum end up like so many of those "pat them on the back" threads in other forums where members keep on saying things like "Love your product," "Keep up the good work," "Great company," etc. But now we know that Meridan read this forum, members might be more inclined to post that kind of quotes to get good kharma (not the brand) with the mfg. We are in the Meridian forum, we know how good their products are, that's why we own them, we don't have to praise them like we sell their stuff for a living.



[This message has been edited by lwang (edited 09-10-2001).]

Iwang:

I am sympathetic to your desire for them to step in from time to time to let us know that they are working on a bug or to clarify some misconception. As I mentioned in my post, Andy Regan was pretty emphatic that it is all that he can do sometimes to restrain himself from jumping in. I believe, however, that their participation in the forum would be a slippery slope that they don't want to start down. It is clear that they read the forum and are listening to what we have to say. If you have an issue with a bug in the software, contact them and I'm sure they'll help you resolve the problem or fix it in a future software update. They have a pretty good track record for that. If it's a new feature you're interested in, post it here. Perhaps it will show up in the next software release.

Sorry if I came off as too "gushy" for you. They extended us a special invitation and the whole Meridian team showed up early on a Sunday morning to give a private demonstration of some exciting DVD-A material, provide a more detailed briefing than the general public on updates and new products, and answer our questions. They couldn't have been nicer, and I think our appreciation for the extra effort they went to needed to be formally acknowledged.

I've posted strange anomalies I've encountered on Meridian processor on this forum, and I either got no answer or inconclusive results. Then I would send Meridian UK that information, they either don't answer me or give me a very terse answer which might not be exactly what was asking about. Subsequent followups usually goes unanswered.

Calls to Atlanta frequently results in "we are support here, you have to ask engineering in UK..." But for general questions, there should be a email for the Atlanta guys, so the turnaround is not always 1 week.

There are mfg forums out there where once in a while, the owner steps in to give concise, down to the point answers to inquries that nobody knows. There was no pushing of their sales, bragging how good their products are, or when their vaporware products will come out. But there will always be the panderers

Maybe there should be a Manufacture Q&A forum or something, where questions relevent to them going there, and keeping the DD/DTS fight on this forum.

Nobody seems to bother to ask about the fate of the 561

I believe that the 561 suffers the same fate as the 565 - it is not economically feasable to upgrade it from a hardware standpoint. It does not have a processor upgrade slot and has the 20-bit DACs which together are not going to let you do the things that can be done with either the current or upgraded 568. I know that this is a sore spot with many 561 owners. It does have the advantage over the 565 that it can be upgraded to DPLII via software. Meridian reiterated that they would not be providing DPLII for the 565. As I recall, one of the Meridian team said the 565 had insufficent memory to handle the processing.

I do not recall the 561 being displayed at CEDIA (they had just about everything else), but it was listed in Andrew's presentation as Meridian's entry level processor.

[This message has been edited by Frank (edited 09-10-2001).]

>>My notes are sketchy - I believe it was two channel replayed in Trifield. The next piece was a jazz piece called Lighthouse Blues (featuring the xylophone) recorded by Chesky in 2 +2 +2 - meaning front left and right, front left and right height, and rear left and right surrounds. The recording was very spacious and created a real sense of being in an intimate jazz club. Apparently John Atkinson listened to the demo on Friday, and having been at the original recording, told Bob that that was exactly what it sounded like live.<<

Actually it's "Limehouse Blues" from Bucky Pizzarelli's new "Swing Live" album on Chesky. Elusive Disc has more info on it at http://www.mailordercentral.com/elu...mp;variation=&aitem=26&mitem=362 .

Thanks for the clarification on the name of the piece and the artists - and it was the vibes and not the xylophone (duh!).

Although I thought it was a DVD-A, it well may have been an SACD. Meridian did make the point that the 861.3 with its multi-channel inputs, was compatible with multi-channel SACD. On the other hand, it may have been a special DVD-A recording. I don't know if it was recorded in PCM and converted to DSD for the SACD or whether it was recorded in DSD specifically for the SACD.

Great report Frank!

You and Stacey really shed a lot of light on the matters at hand for those of us unfortunate enough not to be able to go.

My 800 should be coming in this week I hope. I hope that there is some sort of nice arrangement for those who are purchasing the 800 this month, knowing they wanted the newer cards. It almost seems silly, and a waste of money to even use the 800. I just hope I didn't make a mistake with the timing. I spent the last of my money getting the 800 and don't know how I would afford all new cards. I was just going by what Meridian said that it would be better to get the 800 now and upgrade it vs. waiting to get the 800 with the newer parts.

By the way, Lucas is supposedly looking into pushing for a discrete tactile transducer track... that word is coming from two tactile transducer companies! I only hope it is at least a 0-600 Hz bandwidth track, not just 0-200 Hz. Tactile perception extends well into the 600 Hz range.

Frank, it was a DVD-A. David has two DVD-A sampler discs. I don't know if they are sale to the public.

Heath Nut:

Thanks for the kind words. It was a lot of fun. I'm sorry we couldn't get every question answered, but hopefully we got most of the larger issues covered. We did not discuss a separate tactile transducer channel. Like you, to me that sounds like an issue for Hollywood.

As for Buttkicker, I have to say that if that company's objective was to sell more product, they failed miserably in their demonstration. The settings must have been too high because the sofa was constantly jiggling. It was really distracting - like watching TV in a cheap hotel and putting quarters in the bed vibration gizmo with the occasional big whack. I would never buy one based on my experience at CEDIA. I mentioned this to Stacey who assured me that set up properly, they really do enhance the home theater experience. I'll guess I'll just have to try them out at a dealer where they are properly set up. That will involve traveling as I have no local dealers that carry them.