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#56155 2007-04-23 10:50
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 735
Paranoid android
Paranoid android
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 735
Could some evil genius review current thinking on computer jitter levels and how they compare with trad transports?
Are Macs optical outs better than Pc soundcards?
Where do WiFi devices come in all this?
Answers on a postcard please.

Roger


518, 568.2, D6Ks, D6KC, iMac dual core, iTunes 10.1 (lossless), Apogee Duet, Kuro 500A, Logic Studio, Sound Devices 702.
#56156 2007-04-23 11:31
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 1
Pan-dimensional being
Pan-dimensional being
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> Are Macs optical outs better than Pc soundcards?
>
why would they be any different, materially? they both use the same chips and hardware subsystems under the covers (other than the high-end specialized boards, etc.).

doody.



The universally-derided DSP6000 Standing Desk, R.I.P.

Gathering dust: 598 w/SDI & 562V

Current system: Roon feeding a Chord Hugo2go driving Omega Compact Alnico Monitors
#56157 2007-04-23 16:25
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,653
Likes: 1
Working on the ultimate question
Working on the ultimate question
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,653
Likes: 1
If jitter were measured I would expect the order to be something like this:

PC/MAC - poor - lots of electrical noise in the computer to cause problesm

External soundcard - better - detached from the main noise source


Traditional CD players - better than a PC/Mac unless using a specialised card

WiFi devices - even better - completely decoupled from any computer noise

High-End transport - better again due to components and architecture designed for low jitter

Modified WiFi - best - so little already in a wifi device which can cause noise - so once modified to squeeze(box!) every ounce of performance they beat high end players

Mark

#56158 2007-04-23 17:02
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 735
Paranoid android
Paranoid android
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 735
Has anybody measured these claims?

Roger


518, 568.2, D6Ks, D6KC, iMac dual core, iTunes 10.1 (lossless), Apogee Duet, Kuro 500A, Logic Studio, Sound Devices 702.
#56159 2007-04-23 18:19
Joined: Jun 2006
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Working on the ultimate question
Working on the ultimate question
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,653
Likes: 1
Not directly one against the other as far as I know, but I have followed numbers for many of these devices over the years and feel that the order I gave is probably pretty accurate. Many numbers are available via Google searches.

Mark

#56160 2007-04-23 19:05
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 254
Hitchhiker
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Roger

If you do a search of the archives on Mark's and my user names you'll find plenty of chat on our adventures on moving from traditional high-end transports to wireless streaming devices based on real-world listening comparisons rather than measurements.

Regards
Gary

#56161 2007-04-23 19:17
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 8,364
Likes: 14
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: May 2000
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Found some recent measurements on SB3

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24392&highlight=jitter+measurements+SB3

Does anyone know specs on Meridian Players?


- Fiddler (IMHO)

If you think listening to music is fun, try learning an instrument.
HT: G61RSL, 4x5K, 5.5KHC, 2xSC6000, Transporter, HD621, Philips BDP7501 4K, Tivo, 65" LG OLED 4K C6
Computer: Foobar2000, 5K, Mojo, HiFiMan HE1000 V2
#56162 2007-04-23 21:20
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 148
Hitchhiker
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The key question here is at what point does jitter reduction matter. Having a claim to be the lowest is utterly irrelevant if the hearing threshold is achieved by all devices. At what level of jitter is jitter actually a problem?

#56163 2007-04-23 21:36
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 639
Paranoid android
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just from having owned these; over the years of listening experience - my $.02 matches essentially identical with Mark;

Currently for me, the new AppleTV via it's 802.11n AE wireless WiFi is virtually indistinguishable from my Elite transport. I suspect it may not quite match M- or other higher end transports (don't have any of those), but to KiS's point, it may be a moot point for most ears...

I recently was able to stream some dts and dd5.1 from iTunes to the ATV >> processed by the G68.. very sweet indeed...

ken

#56164 2007-04-23 22:14
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 735
Paranoid android
Paranoid android
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 735
Quote
Originally posted by Keep it Simple:
The key question here is at what point does jitter reduction matter. Having a claim to be the lowest is utterly irrelevant if the hearing threshold is achieved by all devices. At what level of jitter is jitter actually a problem?
Sterophile quotes the Linn Majik(�1500) rejection of word clock jitter @193 picoseconds peak-peak.

SB3 linear 491 picoseconds peak to peak.
SB3 SMPS 459 picoseconds peak -peak.
Can someone ellucidate these results please.

Roger


518, 568.2, D6Ks, D6KC, iMac dual core, iTunes 10.1 (lossless), Apogee Duet, Kuro 500A, Logic Studio, Sound Devices 702.
#56165 2007-04-24 03:05
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 419
Paranoid android
Paranoid android
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 419
Quote
Originally posted by kenliles:
I recently was able to stream some dts and dd5.1 from iTunes to the ATV >> processed by the G68.. very sweet indeed...

ken
What are you using for DTS/DD5.1? The newly released beta of Handbrake? They claim to support 5.1 on the ATV with this latest release.

#56166 2007-04-24 04:24
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 8,364
Likes: 14
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 8,364
Likes: 14
Roger,

I don't know an answer to your question.

But here are some measurements Sterophile made of the Transporter better than above numbers but still above 193 but comments indicated the Transporter is considered very good. He also said Coax was significantly better than TosLink. There are lots of ways to measure jitter and I think you'd have to have the same engineer and setup to compare apples to apples. It's sort of like the old watts debate.

http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/207slim/index4.html


- Fiddler (IMHO)

If you think listening to music is fun, try learning an instrument.
HT: G61RSL, 4x5K, 5.5KHC, 2xSC6000, Transporter, HD621, Philips BDP7501 4K, Tivo, 65" LG OLED 4K C6
Computer: Foobar2000, 5K, Mojo, HiFiMan HE1000 V2
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