Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Are we doing ourselves 'no favours' re: S/H M Equipment ?

But how much of the "lack of upgradeability" is real and how much is "our" perception.

OK Meridian haven't offered any upgrades yet but maybe there hasn't been a significant enough change to make it worthwhile.

If M were able to update 5 series kit I'm sure they can do it to the G as well. Of course none of the upgrades were ever "cheap" so value is a big question.

I think the whole thing with hi-def video and HDMI is so up in the air at the moment that M don't want to commit to support something which isn't really ready. I suspect they've learnt from some of their other efforts (586 anyone?).

So have we been pushing down prices?:

on G series probably, as it doesn't seem to be top of many people hit parade (how many people have praised 5 series CD/DVD over G?);

on 800 probably, as it's very very expensive and the "value for money" is very questionable (but it's so lovely!!!);

on 5xx probably again... we openly admit the DVD video performance is less than state of the art even if sound quality is. We are also aware that M has replaced this range with the G series so we can't expect the previous level of support (and upgrades) that have previously been available). And the kit is simply getting older...

The speed at which the market is changing at the moment is making everyone question what to buy or not to buy. If you've got loads of money, then have fun. But those of us on a limited budget who like to get value from high quality second hand purchases may be finding it hard to justify expenditure on CD or SD DVD at the moment.

Chris

PS. I also admit I part-exchanged a 565 and 5000C when I got my 800 on the basis that the price offered was good (even if I did take a beating on the 565) but held on to the 598 and a load of other stuff as it was "worth more to me" as a spare (or maybe second room etc.). But ask youself �1000 for a used 598 or a new top of the range HD-DVD player....?

CVV, Crion :

Yes, you are both correct. The lack of an upgrade path, within the 'G' series, has affected the way Meridian equipment is now viewed. That is why the 500 series proved to be so popular.

Meridian have always been renown for their leadership and build quality at the cutting edge of digital Hi-Fi. Unfortunately Meridian is a small company, with a niche market, and so cannot respond to marketing trends as immediately as the larger, highly financed, companies.
Technology nowadays moves at so fast a pace that only the major brands can afford to go with all the hit and miss of the latest designs in progress. Therefore it stands to reason that M's future movements in the marketplace will only surface once a firm direction has been decided upon.
They may not be able to stay ahead of the game, by the margins, as before but will surely remain innovative at whatever they produce. We just have to remain patient and not jump in, with both feet, each time progress raises its head. After all, this is our Meridian forum and we should be 'biggin' em up' not running them down. IIRC one member even forecast Meridians demise within the next 2/3 years. There's faith for you.

Although my thread starter refers to Meridian equipment in general most of what has been said here has been aimed at M's CD/DVD players. Because of the introduction of the music server I realise that the CD player may in fact warrant a separate argument.

( I've only just come back on line and so consequently some of my views have already been covered).
Holtz'.

I agree with a lot points made.

G series was presented as a new card based upgradable series. Even though it can, nothing has been done to date. There were more upgrades on the 500 series.

Regarding DVD players I just can't see spending $7k even a year ago on a DVD player if Meridian is not going to upgrade it as technology changes. If they had a track record of upgrading these people wouldn't hesitate in still even buying today. Firmware bug fixes is not enough !!! Even if it's lagging behind (i.e. blu-ray or HD) upgrade comes out a year or so after the the first main stream ones show up at even twice the cost of those mainstream ones. Meridian would have a market. But they don't even do that. To dump $7k on a format that will change is asking too much. Folks that do have that kind of money do exist (like the ones that own $1,000,000.00 US sail boats) but it's out of my league.

Be curious if even the 800 series DVD will be upgraded to HD/Blu-Ray.

Lot of good points here.... and this IS after all a "Meridian" forum which is where a lot of folks come to for the sort of info they can't get informally from their dealer.

So look back with "new eyes" or "potential purchaser eyes" and look at all the criticisms and carps.... Holz is absolutley right. AND at the number of entries advocating server technology and "how this $200 or whatever technology sounds so brilliant and is far more convenient than a stack of CD's or DVD's on high end kit"...... horses for courses, but does that really belong on this Forum? I for one think not (with apologies to its advocates). So what is the potential purchaser to think when all these Meridianophiles are knocking the kit or advocating "alternative technology"?? No brainer, I'd say...... and that is regretable when you think about what they are missing !!!

Senior folks in Mothership must be shaking their heads in despair....and we wonder why they don't take a more proactive and visible approach on this site??

(And on that note - WELL DONE MOTHERSHIP for the web-based REGISTRY of WHO OWNS WHAT.....)

Come on guys.... what's caused the M glass to go from being half full to half empty and decreasing?

How about spending more time LISTENING and ENJOYING the kit - which to my ears at least, still rates amongst the best on the market today.

(Tin helmet and flack jacket at the ready.....)

Rgds to all

George.

I'll second that George.

There has been so much criticism over what the kit can't do that we forget that it CAN do 99% of what we need, and do it superbly at that.

How much time, energy and angst have been expended over recent years on the lack of 6 channel inputs, limitation of only 8 channels, HDMI, HD capability, a media server, wireless capability etc?

Apart from Chrislayer, and ocassionally JerryL who fly the flag for the enjoyability of their systems, how many of us, even in passing, note how good our systems sound, or how much we are enjoying them?

It may be out of fashion, but when funds are available, I'll be having an 808i, irrespective of the convenience of my squeezebox.

Cheers

George

Hi George_C,

Incoming !!!

I agree to an extent with one of your sentiments above, in that I think there is too much OT stuff on here these days.

e.g. which screen should I buy, how do I rip CD's, shall I buy a Mac, etc etc

There are far more specialised forums for that type of query and the link to M is thin at best.

However, I disagree that such significant developments, like the server approach, should not be discussed. They are a massive challenge to our world of M and for sure will play some part in the 2nd hand values of our kit today.

You can absolutely bet the folks at HQ are debating exactly very seriously the same stuff e.g. how does that �200 'toy' sound 'as good' as our GXX machine ???

HQ will not be worrying about MAc's, ripping or screens etc (at least not as much)

Maybe that's what should distinguish how far OT a subject should be ??

One thing we shouldn't do is put heads in the sand. That's what many vinyl-heads did when CD's came out. It's inevitable, Mr Anderson !!

I think we will see a greater input/interaction with HQ in the future. I think the forthcoming visit is an indication of that already.

Anyway, glass is more than 1/2 full. The music sounds awesome as ever !!!

Cheers

I have said on many occasions how pleased I am with the audio visual experience I get from my kit and that I will not be rushing in to HD/BD etc. However, I seem to remember that those of us who expressed satisfaction with upscaled SD DVD were taken to task by the HD zealots (and some converted ). It is the HD question and the associated connectivity that has caused most of the critical comments.

The fact is that much cheaper alternatives seem to be able to provide identical or better quality than that available from Meridian range players (and it is particularly source components that we are talking about). Not mentioning these and not comparing them to Meridian would do nobody any favours.

Meridian is a high end supplier. They must offer products which satisfy high end customer aspirations.

"Meridian is a high end supplier."
Absolutely can't agree more,love the sound. But what I don't love is that there is still bugs and beta software for products that's not even in production. M should concentrate on hardware and outsource software development to other partners. The kit's are just to expensive to be depending on beta software. Maybe a concentration on producing an extremely good sound card for MS Mediacenter and then the rest of development will be processors, preamps, amps and speakers.

Exactly , Nick.

Weren't M the 1st to wow them at shows by settine up a 5.1/7/1 system and then just when things got going they'd turn the picture off to reinforce the significance of the quality of the sound ?

I must say that when it comes to upgrades or new players or such , my approach when consulting my owner looking for funding has always been that what we have we hold ie. the fabulous sound we already have for Tape/CD/DVD/Tv or whatever will still be there. Like extending your home you are investing in your 'entertainment' well-being and will reap the rewards.

As I type , I'm listening to Deep Purple 'Machine Head' DVD-A . So when , HDMI, Hd-DVD,Bluray , Squeezebox , NAS or Kaleidescape inherit the earth I've already got a system which will merely be enhanced not condemned as an anachronism.

Must go, I'm getting 'Lazy'

~M~

Hikers

ARE WE DOING Meridian ANY FAVOURS (forget us for a moment)?

I agree that we should all be more supportive of our favourite company. They are a very small company (given their market) which rely on a faithful following of demanding punters buying their SUPERB equipment.

I do not intend to shock or create havoc with the following so please take it in the constructuve manner intended.

To give you all a snapshot of their business in the year to 31 May 2005 (the latest accounts available):

- Sales were �9.1 million (compare that to Sony or Apple!)

- The US accounts for 45% of sales (thankyou to our North American friends) and the UK was only 16% of sales (UK sales fell by 20% from the previous year)

- Nearly all the growth in sales came from the US and the RoW (outside EU and Asia)

- They spent a tiny �1.2m on research and development (tiny compared to their competitors but huge for them)

- They lost �1m in 2004 and lost �1m again in 2005. This is not a profitable business.

- They sold the MLP royalty stream to Dolby to pay for their new factory

- They had �2.1m of cash but �3.6m of debt

SUMMARY: In 2005 this was a small business in debt losing money. I sincerely hope 2006/7 tells a different story. LETS HAVE SOME CONSTRUCTIVE IDEAS ABOUT HOW Meridian CAN MAKE SOME SERIOUS MONEY.

STRATEGY

Where should they focus to get sales up whilst not spending a fortune?

- Is it selling upgrade cards for existing users (a limited market of lower value unit sales)?

- Is it going even higher end and selling fewer more expensive units (the 900 series)?

- Is it going down market and creating a cheap all in one media solution (HD based) with Meridian engine under the bonnet built in Taiwan (high volume low priced units)?

- Is it carry on doing what they are today? (Remember 2004 and 2005 were lossmaking)

I think the boys going to the Factory in February ought think hard about making some REALLY good suggestions for the business.

Andrew

Harry, with regards to disc navigation I agree with you. The new disc formats in particular are so complex that it is going to be nigh-on impossible for a small-to-medium sized company like Meridian to compete given the required engineering effort. However, the bulk of Meridian value-added is in the hardware/firmware combination and firmware is, erm, software!

I think the snapshot of 2004/5 accounts may be a bit misleading as this was the time when Meridian were spending a larger proportion of their turnover on R&D on the G series. A �1M loss when you have spent �1.2M on R&D may not be too bad. However, a loss is a loss, is worrying and will need to be underpinned by assets. You refer to the purchase of their factory and I assume the debt of �3.6M relates to this.

Of course, after this period, we have the amalgamation with Faroudja and who knows how that deal was structured or financed. Recently we seem to have modest a tie up with Microsoft. Nobody knows the financial setup there.

I don't think it is up to us to tell Meridian how to run their business but I guess that the visit to Huntingdon may be a trawl by their marketeers to find out what enthusiastic users want from the product range.