Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems DLP, CRT, DVI, Cinematrix, iDVDo

Not completely in line with Meridian, but as I know there are plenty of home-cinema nutcases here, I thought I'd give it a try.

a) Will there be a DVI output, either retrofittable, or from factory to the current Meridian DVD player, or to the DVD-A player when released ?

b) Does this render any external processors obsolete when the projector has a DVI input ?

c) If not, can a Cinematrix PSM1 board be fiited to the current DVD player or the future DVD-A player ?

d) Is this cinematrix board any good ? (iDVDo springs to mind here too..)

e) Who is using a DLP, what model and what are your experiences. Also write down screen size, ratio, projecting distance, noise and pixel visability. Also, write down whether it is PAL or NTSC you're using.

f) Who is using a CRT, again same as above....

g) What video equipment sits inbetween the DVD and the projector input ?

h) What is the best option when buying let's say an infocus LP350 with DVI input, concerning video processors and players ?

i) What will the Cinematrix board / iDVDo have for result when using either with CRT or DLP, does this differ ?

j) Concerned about the refresh rates and frequency, is flicker visible with a CRT. I remember I could not stand a CRT computer monitor. Even at 75hz the flicker drives me nuts, so I bought a LCD display.

k) When using the SVGA input on a projector, does that allow you to use the keystone correction facility, because usually this is only available in data mode, not video, but when using the SVGA input, the projector functions as a data projector. Any thoughts on this ? I want to mount the projector as high as possible, so keystone would make this easier.

l) Does keystone impact image quality ?

m) Any other pointers here, things I am overlooking ?

Thanks to all.

Meridian Rules !!!

Richard


[This message has been edited by richardkrol (edited 07-01-2001).]

[This message has been edited by richardkrol (edited 07-01-2001).]

a) Will there be a DVI output, either retrofittable, or from factory to the current Meridian DVD player, or to the DVD-A player when released ?


I don't think so...


b) Does this render any external processors obsolete when the projector has a DVI input ?

No.

c) If not, can a Cinematrix PSM1 board be fiited to the current DVD player or the future DVD-A player ?


I was hoping it could be done.

d) Is this cinematrix board any good ? (iDVDo springs to mind here too..)


It uses the Genesis chip which combs a lot, but the Cinematrix has a very clean, very nice picture! Especially for the low, low price! I don't know of any company modding the Meridian for a Cinematrix install, but there was a response on AVS forum from a place in France that was moding MANY plyers with the Cinematrix. I will make a post in that thread...


e) Who is using a DLP, what model and what are your experiences. Also write down screen size, ratio, projecting distance, noise and pixel visability. Also, write down whether it is PAL or NTSC you're using.

f) Who is using a CRT, again same as above....

Dwin HD700, AWESOME!, 48" x 89" (1.85:1) Stewart 1.3 gain, Deluxe wall mount screen, Approximately 10 feet back from screen for mounting (can't remeber the formula offhand), SILENT, NTSC, soon HDTV/SDTV from Dish 6000, CRT has that wonderful 'analog dither' showing no pixellation.

g) What video equipment sits inbetween the DVD and the projector input ?


Currently only a Better cables Ultra RGBHV cable. The Cinematrix is internal to the Sony 7700, all digital, outputs RGBHV. If Cinematrix decides to make a PSM-2 Cinemtrix 2 with a Faroudja de-interlacer, it would no doubt hold the price/performance championship.

There is another solution that I plan on upgrading to involving the Meridian 800, which I will privately email you on.


h) What is the best option when buying let's say an infocus LP350 with DVI input, concerning video processors and players ?

The Cinematrix does offer DVI output. MSB, however, was using a DVI output as an analog connector with an RGBHV adaptor, but I'm sure it could be used to pass a true DVI signal. Europe seems to have more options at this time with Cinematrix options. MSB seems to be the only U.S Cinematrix installer. I heard Cinematrix was working on a PSM-2, for release in Q3/Q4 which would be very interesting...

Also, the new Sony 11HT for $4950.00 is a nice option.

FWIW, Vigatec seems to be a very progressive, consumer friendly company that I enjoy supporting! I love their attitude!


i) What will the Cinematrix board / iDVDo have for result when using either with CRT or DLP, does this differ ?


I don't keep up on digital projectors at this time because I do not feel they equal CRT projectors at this time. I think the cinemtrix board is great. I think Vigatec with SDI is much better, more powerful, and will continue to get better over time due to being upgradeable. The DVDO deinterlacer (currently used in Vigatec) is MUCH better than the Genesis deinterlacer used in the Cinematrix. However, the Cinemtrix produces and excellent picture IMO, far exceeding the Quadscan I had previously: much cleaner and sharper! For $1500 total price for a SONY 7700 DVD player, scaling in the digital domain, and outputting RGBHV directly on the back of the unit with 5 BNC connectors, that does say a LOT!!!! Price/performance is great! If they switched from genesis to a Faroudja deinterlacer, watch out!!

The nice thing about Vigatec is that it is also upgradeable ... drop me an email!

j) Concerned about the refresh rates an frequency, is flicker visible with a CRT.


At 60 Hz, I see none.


I remember I could not stand a CRT computer monitor. Even at 75hz the flicker drives me nuts, so I bought a LCD display.

I though GHOSTING was a problem with LCD at higher refresh rates? I see no flicker with a Dwin or any CRT *projector* at 60 Hz.

k) When using the SVGA input on a projector, does that allow you to use the keystone correction facility, because usually this is only available in data mode, not video, but when using the SVGA input, the projector functions as a data projector. Any thoughts on this ? I want to mount the projector as high as possible, so keystone would make this easier.

l) Does keystone impact image quality ?


No, assuming it is set correctly

m) Any other pointers here, things I am overlooking ?

Health Nut,

Thanks for your extremely informative reply. The projector and processor arena is one hell of a jungle, on which you'll no doubt agree.

I hope that with everybody's feedback, I'll be able to make a wise purchasing decission. Your reply is one step closer to that.

Technology moves so fast, even for a HT fan, it is hard to keep up !

By the way, how's the black hole sub project progressing ?

Thanks

Richard

The Black Hole subs are just amazing (finished in March). They are truly articulate, powerful, and just way beyond anything commercially available. You don't even know they are there! The amount of excursion necessary is so little when level matched to the B&W N802. The Meridian 861, is the only thing I need in the sense that I adjust the gain and crossover point via the 861!!!! (I use 60 Hz) VERY pure signal path: 861 -> XLR to Bryston 7BST --> black Hole Sub.

Now I just need a new, large, new construction A/V room, which I will be studyind over the next 4 years and plan very slowly. I want to check out that setup in Widescreen review also-- did anyone see that article on the new room construction for a dedicated A/V room?

I'm not sold on digital projection until further advances are made. I'm very happy and remain happy with the Dwin HD700 CRT. If I had the money, I'd snap up a brand new Sony G90 for $22,000 and build a hush box.

[This message has been edited by Health Nut (edited 07-01-2001).]

Are DVI transmit/receive chips available mainstream yet? Silicon Image was showing off DVI at CES, but I don't really know of many products that are currently using it.

If DVI takes off, the 800 will have no problems supporting it or any other interface. There looks to be room on the back of the 596 for more outputs too. Will Meridian support it? Only they know the answer to that and it might even be to soon for them to know.

The most important thing is a unified standard. Until everyone has agreed, what is the point?



If the DVI input on the projector only accepts digital DVI, then sure. If a projector will still accept analog high scan rate sources, then the answer is I don't know. this would be the case of which does a better job de-interlacing and scaling.

If you are using a digital display, then it would be great to keep the signal in the digital domain the entire time.


The current board has a few issues, then again, what doesn't? It is not capable of passing below black or above white. I have seen a prototype that dropped the single rail power supply for a bipolar. But then the output was 110 Ohm instead of 75 Ohm. Once you clean that up you still have combing. If Thomas would switch to either the Silicon Image or Sage solution, it would get better.


It is great in the sense that they offer so much for ~$700. This alone should apply pressure to the others that need the nudge.


7" CRT running @ 720p, which is causing overlap on my CRT. 87" wide 16x9 Stewart 1.3 gain screen. (100" diagonal.)


proper video cables and a video processor.


Does it only accept DVI input? Can you feed it a 480p signal?


The Cinematrix will scale the output to different resolutions but it's de-interlacing is not up to the task. Having 3-2 pulldown detection is no longer enough. They should all handle bad edits and at least motion adaptive de-interlacing for video material.

The DVDO is a de-interlacer only so it will not scale. (480i/576i -> 480p/576p out)


Flicker depends on lighting condition. If you have a darker room, flicker is much less evident, unless you are watching that 50Hz stuff!


How many sources do you have or plan to use with the projector? How good is your light control? What color are you walls, floors, and ceiling?

If you are going to use a digital display you can't use a perf screen. Of course you should never use a perf screen, its the worst of both worlds.



[This message has been edited by sspears (edited 07-02-2001).]

Richard,
I can only answer few questions.

d) Is this cinematrix board any good ? (iDVDo springs to mind here too..)

The Dutch modifier for Cinematrix is a friend of mine. You can go to him and see a toshiba 500 with the modification on a Sony G70 CRT projector. That has DVD-A (analogue outputs) http://www.itccomp.nl/htwebf/ITCHT/index.htm

f) Who is using a CRT, again same as above....
Sony D50, draper clarion M2500 4:3 100" screen (not buy a M2500 screen, for me it does not work at all) viewing distance is 3 meters.

j) Concerned about the refresh rates and frequency, is flicker visible with a CRT. I remember I could not stand a CRT computer monitor. Even at 75hz the flicker drives me nuts, so I bought a LCD display.

I use a HTPC. Run 72 Hz refresh rate. No flicker, proper picture for NTSC discs. HTPC does work, but is much more trouble than a progressive DVD player. Cinematrix their PSM-2 will have 120 Hz for NTSC, and 100 Hz for PAL. You need a good projector for these refresh rates on higher resolutions.. (expansive CRT's...)

k) When using the SVGA input on a projector, does that allow you to use the keystone correction facility, because usually this is only available in data mode, not video, but when using the SVGA input, the projector functions as a data projector. Any thoughts on this ? I want to mount the projector as high as possible, so keystone would make this easier.

With a CRT keystone is/can be corrected for all modes, does not matter what input. This is a disadvantage too, you must configure every input resolution/scan frequncy seperate.

Jaco

f)

NEC 9" here. 864px1536@72Hz via dedicated HTPC (can still see scan lines in the middle of the picture at the screen) and the good old Matrox G400/WinDVD combination, sometime soon to be modified to BNC. Projector calibrated to 6500 Kelvin on an 80 inch wide 16:9 sceen in a black room.

j)

Visibility of flicker might also be dependant on the luminance level (contrast) one drives. On my 19 inch PC-monitor at work @ 75Hz (864x1152) I can spot flicker sometimes. The pictures appears more "active". At home where I drive "only" 72Hz the picture appears flat solid.

Andreas

[This message has been edited by Andreas (edited 07-02-2001).]

Again thanks to all for your replies ! This forum has been such a great help !

Enough of that hehe,

Are you guys in the US being ripped off in the states that is. I got a reply from Cinematrix in Germany (They happen to be 30min. away from where I live...) ;

SVGA 800x600 790,00 DM
XGA 1024x768 990,00 DM
SXGA 1280x1024 1.190,00 DM

For you non germans out there, 100DM equals USD 43 at today's rate !

Great stuff :-)

Richard

Does the Cinematrix board offer DVI out ?

Perhaps you want to ask which version of DVI do they offer because there is more than one. Until that is settled, I would not worry a whole lot.

The Cinematrix will run at any scan rate you want as long as it is 720p. The last one I looked at had severe group delay at all other scan rates. (Also called phase response, which softens the image.)

Stacey,

How do you test for video group delay?

I have both a Sinx/x and multipulse test pattern on DVD. I really just use the multipulse with the 1735HD scope as I don't really trust the sinx/x.

I have been told that both patterns were generated in the MPEG domain using S&W generator.