Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Meridian Squeezebox ?

The 880 server is dead, and that product category is probably past its peak with the advent of cheap terabyte-plus PC's for central music storage. But you still have to deliver from the central store to a replay mechanism, for which I guess we are all using Squeezebox / Linksys Media Receiver / Apple Airport type devices.

How about a Meridian receiver ? Something with both digital and analogue outs, wireless and wired, with 500-comms control, maybe with an option for an internal amplifier to make it completely standalone ? Could talk to the slimserver software, or use somethig homegrown. Would that be an interesting product ?

Regards

Mark

I have a Roku Soundbridge talking SPDIF coax to the G68. Sounds excellent, whether streaming from iTunes or from the Slimserver on my Linux box (Roku can emulate a Squeezebox). The wireless Squeezebox seems to be permanently out of stock, and the wired one does not seem to sound as good. But all these boxes are dirt cheap: I don't see how Meridian could make any money selling one.

Perhaps a Slimserver client could be built into some other product, but otherwise I think there are enough inexpensive devices in this market to make an expensive stand-alone one, even if of extraordinary quality, rather hard to sell.

--Rik

Rik

I'm looking to buy 5 squeezeboxes or soundbridges in the next few weeks.

Have you heard the two squeezeboxes? Why does the wired version not sound as good? Surely they're the same, with the wireless having an extra comms board?

Thanks

I have issues with the Roku:

• They run off the coat tails of Slim Devices (since they use the Slim Server if you want choices for music encoding), but they don't even bother to give credit.
• Since Slim Devices controls the protocol and firmware, there's no guarentee that Roku devices will continue to work going forward with the SlimServer,
• Historically, Roku has had pretty poor technical support, and very poor improvement of products even when flash upgradable.

Regardless of this, though ...

Posted by Sean Adams (owner of Slim Devices) to the Slim Server Developers and Discussion distribution lists:

-----

Hi everyone,

Lots of folks noticed that we were running low on inventory, spending less time here, and working our butts off on SlimServer 6. As suspected, there is a new product. Squeezebox2 is in full production now, and the first units will ship on March 31.

Squeezebox2 addresses all of the top performance and functionality requests that come up here every day.

802.11g/WPA: for better range, compatibility, security, and throughput
FLAC: for reduced bandwidth usage
More memory: for better streaming of PCM audio over wireless

I'm just getting started... don't worry, I'll get to the pony.

Although I don't often contribute to the audiophile discussions, I really do enjoy reading them. Regardless of who can hear what, the fact is that there are indeed some real measurable characteristics such as output levels, THD+N, and clock precision where we had room for significant improvement. Squeezebox2 has completely done away with all the limitations - we're now doing all of the audio decoding and DSP work in software, and this gave me the freedom to design the digital outputs and analog stages exactly the way I wanted them. Please see the FAQ and the hardware specs page for details on the new design.

Among other things, the new design has allowed us to implement cross fading and some very impressive visualizers. Of course, having it all done in software (on an extremely fast processor) leaves the door open for more functionality down the road.

Now some people have pooh-poohed the idea of visualizers as just being eye candy, but personally I think a high resolution, ultra-fast spectrum analyzer is quite a thing to behold. We've got one now - full screen, 64 bands, 30 frames per second, and perfectly synced with the audio. There are a few visualizers to choose from, including a smaller spectrum analyzer and "analog" VU meters.

Squeezebox2 also has a new vacuum fluorescent display - we had it custom designed by Noritake specifically to support the ideas we had in mind for new fonts, animations, and visualizers. The display is slightly larger physically, and has more than twice the resolution at 320x32 pixels. It has multiple brightness levels of course, but it also has grayscale capability, which we use for the visualizers and graphics.

A few "bonus" features that you might not have expected:

Dual antennas: Squeezebox2 has both an internal AND an external antenna. The 802.11g radio takes advantage of this configuration to automatically select the best antenna for transmit/receive, optimizing signal strength and vastly improving range/throughput.

Bridging: yes, Squeezebox2 can share its wireless connection with a wired ethernet device connected through its (100Mbps) ethernet port. This allows other devices in the home theatre, such as Xboxen, Playstations, Tivos, or HTPCs to connect wirelessly to your access point.

Pony: there is a discount code, "FREEPONY". Enter this on the order page to get $20 off on either the wired or the wireless model.

Finally, a big "thank you" goes to every one of our customers and especially the people on this list. Thank you for promoting the product, helping us improve it, and suggesting ideas.

The new web site is up now: http://www.slimdevices.com

Sean


[This message has been edited by Jeff Coffler (edited 03-09-2005).]

I had never heard of Squeezebox before. Is there a similar produce for streaming video wirelessly from PC to AV system ?

I'm not familiar with anything as "polished" for video. There are some open source projects dealing with this, but there are lots of issues:

• Legal ways to rip DVDs (there are none in the U.S. at least),
• Massive disk space to store a library of DVDs (a typical DVD has 6-8GB of material),
• The "model" of use for video is different. With music, it's common (indeed, typical) for me to create playlists of material, switching from album to album on a song by song basis (indeed, that's what "Shuffle: Songs" does in the Slim Server software). But you don't really do this with video (i.e. how many people watch 3-4 minutes of a DVD, then shift to a new DVD).

Since I tend to watch DVDs by sitting down and spending the 1.5-2.5 hours to watch it, it seems pointless (to me, anyway) to have a device to do this. Just get up and change the DVD, saving yourself a boatload of cash for the terribytes of disk space that it would take to store a reasonable DVD library.

I was thinking more of material recorded off the air, eg Freeview in the UK, perhaps with a PVR card and software in the PC. But I think you answered the question.

re Trigaaar's comments...

I have ordered a Squeezebox 2 which is supposed to be released March 31. Obviously the old one was out of stock because they were doing the new one. The new box has lossless compression support and a bunch of cool features; it is also supposed to offer higher audio quality and look less plasticky (the Roku looks a lot classier).

When I originally played with an SB1 I found it sounded less good than the Roku especially on analog outs. It also looks tackier. The Roku streams from iTunes or some other apps and it can emulate the Squeezebox (which has a somewhat different interface so it's a bit strange moving from one i/f to the other on the same box) to talk to the open source SlimServer software which I'm running on a Linux box.

Sean Adams of Slim Devices evidently hates Roku's guts, but whatever they did in the past to upset him, RokuLabs openly support SlimServer now, with due credit and links on their site. If you go and create an open-source server with a sizeable developer community doing cool things and giving it away for nothing, as Slim Devices has done, I am not sure you can really complain when someone else thinks it's good enough to support. Rather the contrary I would have thought, then the companies' hardware can compete on features, quality, functionality etc. And in fact the SB2 looks like it represents some convergence as a result of Roku competing with them on one level and supporting them on another.

SlimServer, whatever you run with it (and presumably if Slim Devices own boxes sound as good, as the SB2 promises to do, and look good too, they will be best at it) is an excellent server and its capabilities are expanding all the time.

Responding to rikrox's comments:

I've always avoided the analog outs for ANYTHING that offers a digital output. If you have a digital output, why in the world would you want additional A/D <-> D/A conversions? Certainly, if you're feeding to a Meridian (what this forum is all about), what possible benefit would there be for using the Squeezebox's on-board D/A converter to feed into a Meridian?

I guess, for ALL products I have, if it has digital outputs, I use it. After all, all my outputs lead to my M861 or G68; why would I want to use anything else?

I'm not sure how Sean feels about RokuLabs (I never saw him say), but most of the people involved with the SlimServer don't care for RokuLabs. I've done some work on the SlimServer myself, and I've worked on numerous open source projects. I have no qualms at all with RokuLabs using the SlimServer if it suits them and the license permits it. But, if they choose to do that, I feel that they should:

• Give due credit where credit is due. You say they've done this, but I've spent some time poking around RokuLab's site and fail to find any page that says "Thanks to Slim Devices for their work on the Slim Server" or anything like that. In perusing their WWW site, I came across this:
  http://www.rokulabs.com/support/slimtips.php
  
  This directly talks about the SlimServer (and is linked by the FAQ, that talks how the SlimServer compares to their software). These give zero thanks to Slim,
• If they use the open source software, and benefit from it, they should contribute to it. This can be financial support, or it can be having some programmers improve the product and submit patches for inclusion into the SlimServer product itself. But RokuLabs has never done this. Tons of companies that embrace open source software do this routinely, but not RokuLabs.

From where I sit, RokuLabs is dishonest (touting benefits of SlimServer software without giving credit) with questionable business practices. Poking around various online forums also indicates that many existing customers are quite unhappy with their level of support and product improvement.

Frankly, I wouldn't go near that company with a ten foot pole.

One of the reasons I purchased Meridian was because I believe in their customer support. They're not perfect (nobody is), but frankly, they've done GREAT by me, and I fail to find any company, anywhere, with better customer support.

Slim Devices, while they sell a dramatically less costly product, also appears to offer very good customer support. And as a bonus, you can improve their software yourself (as I have) if you're so inclined.

SlimServer is an excellent server, and it's capabilities are expanding all the time - we agree there. But no thanks to RokuLabs, who benefits from it but never bothers to contribute back to the Open Source community. Heck, they don't even bother to give credit where credit is due (certainly not easily found on their WWW site, anyway).

[This message has been edited by Jeff Coffler (edited 03-11-2005).]

I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I though my question was related to your discussion.

I've been trying to find a MP3/iPod type of device that offers the ability to store all of my 600+ CDs but without compression, has anyone come across such as device?

My wish list is
1. Very high quality to connect to my M.568
2. Support for uncompressed MP3 sound files
3. 260+ GB capacity (for 600 CDs)
4. Remote control
5. Digital output
6. Must work independently of my PCs, hence must be a standalone MP3 server

Have any of you come across such a device?
Thanks.

I've never heard of "uncompressed MP3"; MP3 is generally a compressed format, lossy by definition. Other formats (FLAC, etc) are lossless (and still compressed), but not MP3.

In any case, there are a few manufacturers. One is the Lansonic, here's a link that describes it:
http://www.audiorevolution.com/equip/lansonic/

There are others.

Having been down that path before, I wouldn't recommend that. The problem with a path like that is you're very much "set in stone" with that device. It's difficult to extend or change a device like that.

If you could stick a cheap PC in the basement or a closet or something, something like the SlimServer (or Roku, not recommended for reasons already stated) is a better solution. Server-based software means you have tons of options; server based software like the SlimServer evolves over time. Standalone products do not.

The first option that comes to mind is the Cyrus Linkserver. The basic server supports up to 250GB, which is close to your target, and I believe they recently announced an upgrade. Although I can't seem to find anything on it.

They have also released a Linkserver Quattro, which can apparently support upto 1000GB, but again I can't find any details on this.

I suspect that more information will be available once they get closer to shipping.

BTW, I used to be a Cyrus fan, and even contemplated the Cyruslink at one time.

However, the combination of a cheap Linux PC and a Squeezebox (soon to be joined by 2 SB2's) provides much more bang for the buck,
IMHO. The Squeezebox really has revitalised my interest in music, and makes listening to music so much easier.

[This message has been edited by EasySqueezy (edited 03-14-2005).]