Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems 210 into Ultra Dac

Any views or advice about using the 210 streamer with an Ultra DAC? What connections to use to preserve the MQA stream, I am using the Ultra SL input for my 861 front L/R. Would the 210 coax out pass MQA to the Ultra?

I have an Antipodes K50 sever to my Ultra DAC and use Roon as my core. The K50 does not support MQA only Roon, but if I set up the K50 to unfold and render in Roon it plays MQA on all the digital inputs I have configured for the Ultra DAC - 75 ohm, 110 ohm, USB and ethernet.
M confirmed to me that the Ultra DAC would render and play MQA regardless of the streamer/server.

Slightly OT, but how do the K50 digital outputs compare to using ethernet from the K50 into the Ultra DAC?

I'm currently using ethernet into my 818, but have wondered whether it would improve things if I used one of the digital outputs from the K50.

The digital inputs are much better then using the ethernet with the K50, as it reclocks the digital outputs but does not reclock ethernet output or USB output. The K50 is optimized to use the 75 and 110 ohm digital outputs. Before my K50 when I used my Roon Nucleus or even a computer I preferred the ethernet port by a small margin. My ethernet was/is optimized as well with audiophile switches, clocks, filters and cables. The Ultra DAC has an excellent clock and renderer for network connection. You are using the K50 like a K40, I recommend you try the digital inputs with a good cable. Even with an average digital cable it sounded much better then the network. I do not have DSP speakers, I use the XLR analog outputs on my the Ultra DAC to my preamp.

Thanks for the comprehensive response.

I have a couple of unused 75 Ohm BlackCat SilverStar MkII coax cables lying around, so could try these into the 818 (and, possibly, the dCS Bartok). One wonders whether the sound would be even better direct to the speakers, but that would be a lot of expensive coax cable for that experiment...

I have to ask why you would use a 210 with an Ultra DAC when it already has a streamer in the ID41? If for the Bluetooth connection, that will not support MQA. Is it for Spotify or Qobuz?

Jeremy
Definitely try the digital cable. I would be interested in what you think of the different outputs on the K50. Make sure to put the K50 in standby when changing cables, with 3 LPS it can blow a fuse easily.
Mark

Bruce posted the following comment querying why Colin would want to use the 210 Streamer when he had the capability to stream into the ID41 Network card in the Ultra Mac.Bruce answered Colin's main question, which was NO if you are making a streaming connection via Bluetooth. It will not preserve a MQA file stream if connected to the Ultra DAC either by the coax output or the MHR SpeakerLink Output, IF the source connection is via Bluetooth. It will preserve the MQA file via the Coaxial output on the 210 if it originates via the 210 Network input.

The reason the 210 does not preserve the MQA stream over a Bluetooth connection is explained it these two weblinks;

No, Bluetooth Cannot Deliver Hi-Res Audio

What You Really Need To Know About Bluetooth Audio

What is very disappointing the fact that there is no mention of this anywhere by Meridian in the 210 Datasheets nor the 210 User Guide. This is a "Can't know whatcha don't know" situation, which Meridian isn't publicising !

As is mentioned in one of the articles above, the streaming via Bluetooth is just a service you are providing to your visiting family & friends to take over your music system so they can play their own music conveniently from their phones. Personally, I just give them my iPad to do that via the ROON App.

When I originally read Colin's original post which at the time had no replies, I also wondered why Colin would not just use Roon as the core and use the ID41 Network input to either stream MQA/Hi-Res Audio files. That way he keeps his front speakers connected to his 861v8 via the solo MHR SpeakerLink input on his Ultra DAC.

Given Colin is focusing on MQA files, he really only has two streaming sources available, which are Tidal and Nugs.net, excluding the Japanese service e-onkyo. It is highly likely he is already subscribed to Tidal or considering it. Both Tidal and Qobuz are supported by Roon but only Tidal has MQA music. Tidal also has Hi-Res Multi-Channel files and Colin infers he has a multi-speaker set-up with the use of his 861v8 and his speaker listing.

Hopefully Colin is aware that a MQA file cannot be passed preserved through any version of the 861. However, he can still connect to the network via the ID41 card in his 861v8 and play multi-channel Hi-Res files using Roon from Tidal and then play two channel MQA files again using Roon directly into ID41 card of the Ultra DAC, which has the full capability of decoding and rendering the MQA file before converting it to an analogue signal. The option of subscribing to both Roon and Tidal is his quickest and lowest cost solution to his inquiry.

MarkR has stated that a coax connection from his Antipodes K50 Server connected to the Ultra DAC gives a better music quality than using the Network connection of his Ultra DAC. Acquiring a Antipodes K50 Server requires a lot of coin so Colin can immediately start with Roon and Tidal via the Ultra DAC network connection, which is the minimum spend. Given that Colin lives in London, maybe Rick or one of the other Meridian Dealers in the UK can offer him a trial of the 218 to see if he prefers music quality better via the 218 coaxial connection than the Ultra DAC ID41 Network connection.

Finally, I recommend to anyone subscribing to Roon, that they take up their lifetime membership while it is still available. Do the Math for the payback period.

Cheers,
Steve M

To expand on my original question, I want to use the 210 to stream Tidal MQA files to my Ultra DAC, I do not want to use a PC, a Roon Core or any other piece of equipment physically connected to my DAC. I want to know if i can stream Tidal via an iPad or iPhone to the 210 which is connected to the Ultra DAC via coax hopefully delivering an MQA stream to the DAC. I will eventually purchase an Aurender N20 to take care of all stored and streamed digital files, this will be connected to the Ultra via USB.

Colin,

The answer to your question at this very moment is no.

You really need to read the current Tidal Connect thread in the Streaming Forum.

However, it is highly likely that Meridian will make a firmware upgrade in the future to both the 210 and 218 to recognise Tidal Connect, the same way that right now the 210 recognises Spotify Connect. At this point in time you can connect to Spotify Connect on the 210 via a Bluetooth Connection to an iPhone or iPad and select music via Spotify Connect and output any music file available in the Spotify library including Hi-Res files, but the 210 streamer must be connected to the Network.

As discussed in the Tidal Connect thread, you are using Spotify Connect App on the iPad or iPhone as a remote control but the music files are streaming from the internet Network connection of the 210. The music stream is not via the the Bluetooth connection given that it doesn’t have the capability to stream Hi-Res via Bluetooth as discussed in the links in my previous post. The only problem with respect to your to your needs, is that Spotify does not have MQA files in its library. You can set up the 210 to output via the coaxial to the Ultra DAC.

At the moment, the Tidal Connect thread states it can connect via bluetooth to work as a remote control of the Tidal library but the Bluetooth connection remains the only pipeline to supply music files to the 210. Therefore when using Tidal Connect, there is a Bluetooth symbol on the lower left corner of the screen and the MQA stream is not preserved but can still be heard. The DSP shows a resolution of MHR 88 via the SpeakerLink connection and not MQA.

According to the Tidal Connect thread, at the moment Tidal Connect does work with MQA files when using Bluesound devices.

There is no doubt, in an unknown timeline, that Meridian will issue a firmware update to the 210 so you can do exactly what you want to do using Tidal Connect.

Therefore go out and buy yourself a Meridian 210, set it up between your 861v8 and Ultra DAC to output via the Coax connection and wait patiently for the Meridian firmware update to be issued.


Cheers,


Steve M

Sorry, but IMO this is 100% wishful thinking. Would love to be proved wrong.

Shame Meridian’s customer service is so bad, I sent four tech enquiries through their website in October/November last year when I decided to invest in the Ultra DAC, I did get a phone call in mid December from their sales manger Matthew Delaney who apologised that no one had answered me and that he had checked the customer emails as no one else at Meridian had bothered to and decided to speak to me personally. He was very helpful in sourcing an Ultra DAC with a green display to match my 861 so I can’t fault his service. My subsequent enquiries since I purchased the Ultra in June have been ignored although I have registered my products on the website and that would tell them I’ve spent £30k on new Meridian equipment in the last two years. Crap isn’t it!