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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,053
Pan-dimensional being
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Pan-dimensional being
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,053 |
OK Joel, you're messing with my very fragile understanding of all this. What makes you think SE speakers might decode?
Ken
Main: G68J, 5K2s, 5Ks, HSU subs, Pio 151FD, Dish VP722, Roku, Wadia I70, Anti Mode Dual Core, Oppo 103D Vanity Lite
Office: SBT, Berkeley Alpha DAC 2/MQA, Magico S3 Mk II, Boulder 2060, Lumin U1 Mini streamer, Roon.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,660 Likes: 30
Working on the ultimate question
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Working on the ultimate question
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,660 Likes: 30 |
At least nobody has mentioned the "magic sauce" yet! 
Main: G61SL, 218, HD621, 2*7200SE, 7200HCSE, M6s, DSW, Apple TV 4K, NUC (Roon server)
Secondary: Wiim Pro, 3200, Audio Core 200
F80
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733 Likes: 88
Don't Panic!
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Don't Panic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733 Likes: 88 |
It was the revelation that you can unfold to 96k, move that around digitally, then complete the decode elsewhere. However, I've changed my mind and am sticking with the 8x8 doing the full decode with rendering only in the SEs.
Interestingly, the SEs may apply the special DAC compensation filter themselves which means that the 8x8 doesn't have to. Implications for older DSPs.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,660 Likes: 30
Working on the ultimate question
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Working on the ultimate question
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,660 Likes: 30 |
I liked the idea of Meridian's simple 2 channel setup: A pair of DSP speakers and a digital source. Now it sounds like you cannot use anyone's digital source to get the full fat MQA. Maybe this wasn't very popular in the first place and no great loss.
Cheers
Tom
Main: G61SL, 218, HD621, 2*7200SE, 7200HCSE, M6s, DSW, Apple TV 4K, NUC (Roon server)
Secondary: Wiim Pro, 3200, Audio Core 200
F80
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,821 Likes: 94
Great Green Arkleseizure
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Great Green Arkleseizure
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,821 Likes: 94 |
Hi VK and Chris Thank you for your responses and the term "Rendering", however, thankfully I have no MQA full fat stain on the carpet underneath my SE's. Perhaps one day full fat MQA will be clarified Hector
AV: Thorens TD160B, SME, ShureV15MK2, 500, 598, 861v4, DSP7200.1, DSP3300HC Samsung UE55, SkyHD.
DINING: MS600, AC200, DSP5200SEUG.
STUDY 504, Roon Nucleus + RevB, 808v6, 5200SE, Mac & PC (Touch Screen), Prime+PS Grado GS1000i
HORIZONTAL: M80, MS200, Red Rose Spirit + Sonus Faber Toys, iPad Mini
A capella to Zydeco
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733 Likes: 88
Don't Panic!
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Don't Panic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733 Likes: 88 |
To clarify, my current hypothesis is that RENDERING means application of the DAC-specific filter; and it is completely independent of the decode.
In MQA-certified DACs, both decode and rendering will take place. This is true in the 8x8, where we know that decoding takes place on the digital input card and rendering takes place on the analogue output card. The decoded (but not rendered) MQA is sent over SpeakerLink (MQA over MHR) to SE loudspeakers which render it.
The implication is that, if you feed unfolded-to-96kHz MQA digitally* to an SE loudspeaker, it will not decode it further and will display 96k PCM.
Which still leaves us to ponder how M is compressing the data over the SpeakerLink wire...
* Note that the TIDAL app appears to be doing something more than just a simple 1-stage decode. I fed the output to my 818v3 and it did NOT decode it further.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,492
Senior Shouting Officer
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Senior Shouting Officer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,492 |
Do we infer then that Tidal is performing some sort of generic rendering?
Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, Vero 4k, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,941 Likes: 9
Knows where his towel is
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Knows where his towel is
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,941 Likes: 9 |
To clarify, my current hypothesis is that RENDERING means application of the DAC-specific filter; and it is completely independent of the decode.
In MQA-certified DACs, both decode and rendering will take place. This is true in the 8x8, where we know that decoding takes place on the digital input card and rendering takes place on the analogue output card. The decoded (but not rendered) MQA is sent over SpeakerLink (MQA over MHR) to SE loudspeakers which render it. Yes, I assume that ADC and DAC matching is taking place in the SEs as well as DAC. I assume this is where all the hugely increased processing power of the SEs is being used. It must have been added to do something!
Asa Post
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 63
Mostly harmless
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Mostly harmless
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 63 |
This from an MQA glossary on Stereophile: The MQA renderer performs sampling reconstruction under instruction from the encoder while matching and optimising the attached DAC to deliver an authenticated analogue output. The renderer may replace or override reconstruction filters in the DAC. The renderer may perform cross-family conversion depending on the platform.
568.2MM, DSP5000(96/24), DSP5000C(96/24), 596,Sony BDP S570, Sony HX903 TV.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 111
Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 111 |
Today I tried using a Node2 as input for my DSP8000USE's.
The setup was:
Put some MQA encoded tracks on a playlist in Tidal
Use digital out from Node2 directly into DSP8000
Node2 app said MQA, when playing 192khz or 96khz, the display on my DSP8000's said 96khz, but no indication of MQA...
Question is then, what does the Node2 actually output on the digital coax - it seems to be 96khz, but is it 24bit? Is it lossless? Is it MQA in some way?
It sounded really good, but I did not have time enough to do a real comparison with other hires I have myself playing through Sooloos...
Among other things I played Cypres Avenue with Van Morrison - incredible sound from the MQA track... so if I did listen to MQA, I can hardly wait for the 218 to arrive or maybe even an 818...
818v3, Trinnov Altitude 32-16, 271, G68ADV, UHD722, DSP8000(U)SE, DSP5200 (SL), DSP5200HC (SL), DSP3200, 4xDSP320.2, G98, MS200, Prime HA, Ex2, 561, 598DH, 504, Roon Lifetime, Roon Rock, 218, Oppo 103, Panasonic UHD9000
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