Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Help B4 my mind explodes! To sell or not!

Ok,

I am losing my mind figuring out what to do. I have the 568.2mm/598DP Combo and got it 6mos ago for a very good price..

I have been offered more for the set then I paid, so I have a choice.

I HATE the fact that Meridian hid from us the G Series, as I was told the 568/598 was the latest and 2 months later it is discontinued.

For the most part I LOVE the Meridian, and the software setup. All the little doo dads and MHR etc...

The things that are lacking the most is Video Switching (tied to audio) and any hardware upgrade in the future.

What I want the most in a systems is:
Upgradability (hardware/software)
Software Configuration
MLP Link (MHR or 1394 or something)
A Mfg that doesnt use other peoples products

I cant stand the thought of spending another $8000.00 to upgrade to the G68 and G98! It just isnt right..

I have looked at the following brands and am totaly lost. I am hopeing the people here from the UK area can help out the most with some of the more unique brands...

Bel Canto
Revox (M51)
Theta
Fosgate Audioics
Lexicon
Parasound (Halo)
Rotel
Sunfire Theater Grand III
B&K Ref 50 (I like their software the best)
Classe'
Nagra
EAD

I know this is alot to ask, and I know all of the above have their ups and downs. But I am totaly lost on what to do???

Any comments appreciated!

Duntec,
If you are not willing to spend $8000 more on a G68/G98 why do you not stay with your current combination ?
I do not read you are not satisfied with it. Do you fear this is a one time offer and in 1 or 2 years the price for your 598/568.2 has dropped very much ? (there must be a reason why you consider a other brand)

I know little of most of the other brands in the list you name. From what i have read about them, most in the list are not hardware upgradable. It also depends what you mean by hardware upgradablility.
For exapmle Lexicon had very good trade in policiy (do they still ?) But this is not really upgrdability.. The MC12 seems expandable with more DSP cards. But also new inputs ?
A card based unit would give you hardware upgradability.
A Theata Casablanca has Cards, a bit like a 861. But it will costs you more than $8000 i fear.
A Rotel 1098 seems to have cards as well.

I think it is hard to look into the future, but you might want to know if new inputs like HDMI with audio / 1394 can be upgraded if one of them becomes the standard.

Further to me it seems logically there will be a 3rd dimension in the sound. So height channel(s). This would mean that the hardware architecture must be ready to go above 8 channels.

Since there is not a real standard yet for Multichannel high resolution audio so most likely what you buy now is outdated tomorrow in that area.

This will shorten your list considerably i think.. (there seems to be pioneer technology hidden in most of the DVD players the listed brands produce)

Is it perhaps an idea to sell only the 568.2 and keep the 598 for the time being ? You could still go digital into the G68 from the 598. Must be cheaper than buying both new.

Good luck with your decission.
Jaco

[This message has been edited by jaco (edited 12-22-2003).]

There's a lot of people here who can make much more informed comment about the technical issues but some thoughts occurred in reading your post. It seems to me that many of the features you want are still with you although granted that they are diminishing. Initially I too was angry with Meridian about the release of the G series - I have 596/568.2 (with 5 DSP 5k's) and 596 residual value has particularly been hit. However, I feel we expect too much from Meridian:

Firstly, the fact that we bought our systems from them says we really appreciate the performance of the equipment. That has not gone away. I wish I had more time to listen and watch through my system The money I spent with Meridian for this was worth it at the point I paid it and nothing has changed that.

Secondly, I do want my system to be up to date but I don't want to be right on the edge. For example, I do want to have DVD Audio but I decided not to go for 598 because of the cost and commercial uncertainty over the format. If I could have found a 598 at a great price, as you did, I'd have done it to get a feel for DVD-A but with the real buying point being stunning DVD-V and CD performance. These things are still true - don't you feel that your system still bears comparison with anyone else's products just as it is?

I'm not technically knowledgeable but reading the guys here who clearly are, it seems some major changes are coming - Jaco's point about height dimension being one - and there are format and standards issues to fix. G series seems to offer a platform for envisaged functionality but even it will require upgrade to fully absorb and present it.

It does not seem fair to expect Meridian to foresee industry developments which require changes to architecture and physical box size to implement. 500 series is neat looking but it seems like it was not designed with current development potential in mind.

Thirdly, the people with 861 report stunning improvement with the PLiix software upgrade. If the implementation of that for 568.2 is as good (and why should it not be?) we are set for a big shift in performance. It's still a stunning processor and, again, in it's price band, it's as good as anyone else's including Meridan's as, from what I've read and heard about G series so far, G98/G68 are not yet a significant aural advance on 598/568.2.

For all of us with 500 series equipment and with an itch to have the best we can have, there will be a decision point to upgrade or not. I know I'll do it (although I truly hope my wife does not find this comment just now!) but not yet. Sometimes, to step up we have to write off much of an existing investment - I'm in the IT business where that is certainly true - and it looks it is the case here. Would any other company have offered better whilst providing so much?

I'm sorry to have droned on here but your comments resonate with me. I'm frustrated too but when I compare what I have got from Meridian with what I would like to have but can't (mostly related to upgradeability), I still end up with a smile on my face. They are a fantastic company committed to innovation, excellence, quality, clarity, and customer service. Inevitably they are constrained by the sheer economic and commercial realities of life. I hope you end up with that smile!

Steve

duntec,

calm down

except Lexicon - all other brands you mentioned are farway soundwise (not so price-wise).

just to be precise - G was anounced in August.
we're 5 months from then - and it's still not in stores.
so about half a year notification - you can't ask more than that.

i understand your terrible feeling.
if i was you - i would settle at the dealer's until he would give me a decent refund for my 5xx and go fo the G.

one more time - in my opinion only Meridian and Lexicon know how to do it right (each in its own way).
others aren't even close.

p.s. i was surprised how bad theta's 16,000$ processor sounded - and this incl all their extreme-dacs etc.
it sounded like some 3,000$ processor. no more than that.
and its UI is a joke. not a joke - actually its' more an abuse.

[This message has been edited by Croc (edited 12-22-2003).]

you should consider that a G98DH has a pretty much a faroudja NRS-DVI built-in and that cost around $4000. If I had to do something in your position, I would sell the 598 and switch for a G98DH using MHR with a 568.2

Fred

Duntec,
I share some of your views, but, as stated by others above, your system is no less than the great system it was 5 months ago. The fact that you got it at a bragain price is great too.

I'd let the G series settle down for a good while....unless you face another bargain opporunity....then work out whether you are missing out.

It's holiday time. Enjoy your 568.2/598 combo.

All the best

Nick

Im with the others- I understand your being a little bothered, but thats unfortunately how it is. Have you ever bought a computer- only to find out that a month later a better model is out. I've been there. There is nothing a company like Meridian can do to protect itself from that.

The thing to do if you really want to trade out of the 5 series is to see if the dealer will cut you a deal- it is in their name dealer .

That said- you mentioned you wanted hardware upgradability. The G series doesnt seem to offer much of that- to get that youd need to be in the 8 series I think.

How about sound quality- if the 861v4 is the current king of the hill in Meridian land, and if the G68 sounds just like or close to it, then it surely is a deal. However, if the latest version of the 568 sounds close to the 861v3- you still have a fantastic sounding processor that is pretty well ahead of the others.

With the exception of Lexicon for movies, you really wont get a better sounding processor from those companies you list. What you will get is quirky service and quirky products. More so than with Meridian. Ive had products from Lexicon, Theta, B&K, and Sunfire.

Dont make a rash decision. In your spot- Id be on the phone to the dealer to see what kind of deal could they make me on an 861v4 while keeping the 5 series player. if that doesnt work- try the G- but keep the 5 series player. And if you cant make a deal work- then keep what you have. You were happy with it before knowing about the G series- and it should work just the same today. I dont think M has discontinued their support of the 5 series either.

Let us know what happens.

First,

I want to thank all of you! You guys are great!

Jaco:

The reason I dont want to stay with my current equipment is No Video Switching, Discontinuation and a private party that is willing to pay $7600 US for the Pair. I dont think I will get a better price later?

On the upgradability, Lex has 2 open slots for the future and always had a trade up program. I can get a new MC8 for $3300 US (but the RT10 SUCKS!). Revox is completly upgradable.

As far as the MLP, I though Dolby Lisc the tech from Meridian and was the standard?

Also I looked at the Rotel, and it looks great but very little info on the web-site.

Croc,

I was a former Lex owner for years and loved them About the 5mon and the G Series.. It is the fact that when I bought the 500 stuff 6 months ago, M America told me it was the latest and greatest and not to worry. They could have told me the G Series had been in development for some time and around the corner.

About my Dealer? He went out of business after 2 years, and there arent any others around. So for upgrades deals I am sunk.

I have heard the same about Theata!

Fred,

The G98DH wont work with the 568.2. M confirmed it. The G68 WILL work with the 598!!

Nick,

Its hard when I have a guy with $7600.00 in hand for my M Stuff and $3300.00 for A Lex MC8.... ???!?!?!?!?

JerryL,

You hit a good point with the computers. But computers have always been upgradable. Toss in a bigger HD, a new Video card etc. And again, I am sunk as my dealer is gone!

Good point again on the upgradability of the G. But atleast it is new for M so I hope they would support it longer.

I am a big movie person so the Lex is appealing. You mention B&K and Sunfire. I know the price are way lower then M ($1995.00 for the REF 50) and B&K's software seems to mirror M's. I am seriously looking at the B&K, but dont know how much of a step down B&K or Lex is???

To everyone else, thx, Truly!

Please let me know what you think with the info I provided above. My short list is now B&K Ref 50, Lex MC8, Rotel, Parasound...

Again THX SO MUCH!!!!

the g98 will work with 568.2 I have seen this working at a local dealers the g68 has a smart link for this reason you did not speak to the correct person at M. as I spoke to M,uk and they said it works fine.

John

Hmm, $7600 is not too bad i think. I see 2nd hand 568.2 units (not even MM ones) go for about 4000 Euro's here (~ $4500) (Here is Holland with not a lot of 2nd hand 568.2 units)

I seriously doubt you will get a pre-amp and DVD player with DVD-A and DVD-V playback of the same quality for $7600 than your current system offers.

I guess it depends a bit on what you want:
- DVD-A playback - other brand will not beat Meridian
- SACD-5.1 playback - will not work in your current system without multichannel analogue pre-amp. Works with G68. Other brands differ: look for Time alignment and bass management for 5.1 input, as not much players have this internally.
- Need DVI output, or is interlace or progressive component SD enough
- Need RGBHV output (CRT technology) a scaler is really neccesary, and that could also switch some sources, or scale the output of your video switcher. (all in G player)
- how many inputs with video to switch

Perhaps the most important point: how does it sound and look.

Tough decission. But if your dealer went out of bussiness, isn't there a other dealer who can help you. M. USA should be able to tell you the nearest dealer, or perhaps a fellow memeber can point you towards a good dealer which will work over a longer distance as well.

Jaco

You're welcome!

A few thoughts.

On the computer analogy- no analogy is perfect, but think about this.

you buy a new PC or Mac- the model super1000x. It has a Z Processor running at 3ghz and 2gb of ram.

Next month the super2000x is announced. it will be out in 6 months. it will cost the same as the 1000x that preceeded it and the price on the 1000x will be dropped significantly to help move the 1000xs on the shelf and also to put more power at a lower price point.

the specs on the 2000x are fantastic: the processor is now up to 4ghz and the amount of ram allowed is up to 8gb. but theres more, the motherboard now runs at twice the speed- so there are no bottlenecks. the computer also comes with a faster DVD/CD burner.

could you upgrade your 1000 to the 2000? sure- but it would really cost you and to get the benefit of the more ram and faster motherboard - youll have to buy the new motherboard. (this is one place many people dont look when looking at computer speed- and the should). what if you didnt buy the new mother board? well, youll get a faster processor chip- but the data will reach it and leave it at a slower rate then the out of the box 2000x.

the best solution in this situation- keep the 1000x for a few years, as it was running software fine for you before the announcement. when the software gets too demanding, time to move on.

I know its a little different here, but its not so different.

You have to look at what you have today and how much would it cost to replace it and what features/benefits do you gain in the replacement?

since your deal is one where both have to go or its no deal we'll look at it that way.

In my view of the world (which is by no means the right one) I see the order of processors for movies in terms of sound quality as

1- Meridian (by a small margin)
2- lexicon
3- thetas and those like them
4- B&K and those like them.

youll have to decide if their different feature sets suits you, but Im talking about sound quality here.

now about DVD platyers. I would not buy anyone's low volume/ high margin player save for Meridian. the reason is what I see companies like theta and lexicon doing is taking a stock product like a pioneer player, and then adding a fancy new case, maybe beefing up the power suppply and maybe, maybe replacing a few DACs with better ones. We can argue the relative worth of what Meridian does, but I do not think for most people the benefits a Theta player supposedly gives them are all that great. I looked at a Theta DaVID and also one of their LD players and I was shocked that the results were worse than on my pioneer players. Meridian writes their own code and where they dont, they seem to take the time to artifully massage the data to produce the most pleasant image/ sound. I really think there is a bit of an art form to this stuff. Just like anyone can make a car go fast in a straight line- it takes real understanding to build one with banalce and that can still be comfortable to drive in every day.

Thats my opinion- you know what they say about opinions given freely- they are worth just what you paid for it!

So today what do you have?
A very good processor for both movies and music- although some audiophile members prefer more dedicated music gear. But it is worlds better than Lexicon for music. And a top level DVD player that also can decode dolby digital, dts, and MLP (DVD-A) inside it and pass that signal on to the processor so the processor can upsample movies and play DVD-A.

Do any of these features not really matter to you? If they do then I think you are stuck because you really should hold on to that player.

If the DVD-A/upsampling of movies doesnt matter (try comparing with it on and off- I find it makes a big difference, soundtracks seem more "airy" and "open", more "hi-fi" and dialogue seems clearer). But if this doesnt matter then you can sell.

But what do you get. A G68 will cost you maybe 8k? I havent really paid too much attention to the prices. But lets say its 8k. What you gain is what seems like 861v4 performance, which is a notch better than you have now and you also gain room correction and video switching. Im not a fan of video switching, but you must want it because you have a need for it so its needed.

dont think room correction will make a tremendous difference- its a noticeable, but subtle difference. You will likely appreciate it- but I dont know if its worth going through all of this to achieve.

now youll need to get a new DVD player- say a decent one that goes for around 500. So youre spending close to 1k new.

To gain video switching now, you could get something from extron and it would probably cost you in that range or less.

I cant say what I would do if I was in your spot because I like having the latest/greatest- but I would say that I think you cannot make a mistake by sticking with what you have. I think in the end it comes down to how much do you like having DVD-A playback and upsampling of movies.

As to your dealer- or lack thereof- just call up Meridian of America (404) 344-7111.

I think I read here that if they cant find you a dealer within a certaiin radius they will actually sell to you directly. If you live in the NY Metro area let me know, maybe I can see if theres more I can do.

Hi there,
i have the only (!?) alternative to M,
the Lex MC-12.
Heard a couple of weeks ago a M system, was havilly surprised about the sound. Not only for music! The sound of film was stunning good for me, didn�t expect because: M for music and L for film myth.
Bullshit different taste matters, in some serious aspects M leads.

There is one thing which may help to shrink the cost for a AV system: the Sage DCDI. At this point you don�t have to pay for a so called High End PJ.
On the other hand, i know what video processing can do to image quality.
I own a Runco CL-710 and the Runco video processing is sharper and offers more details then DCDI. Got the white papers from the Sage website regarding DCDI, and from that what i understand, is that they have to cover the artifacts of the film/video mode pre-detection by adding filters. So the result is a jaggie free image but the depth of image appears not so good.

Here you have to think about if it is usefull to have the video processing onboard.

Best
Armin