Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Streaming Using the variable output on the MS600

Currently I am missing a preamplifier so I decided to experiment with the variable output from the MS600.

I connected the balanced analog output from the MS600 directly to the input of my audio research Ref110. I then used the volume slider on the iPad to regulate the volume. At lower levels all sounded terrific but as I started to push the vol up to about 85 or 90 it started to badly break up and distort. It was loud and I thought it must be the amp running out of steam. But a week later I had the single ended analog output connected to my Denon 4308 and I was using the headphone output. Once again I noticed the same problem. If the volume indicated on the iPad creeps past about 85 things get ugly. I now have the balanced output connected to a Krell FPB-400cx and this amp has a bit more gain so I don't dare push the volume past 75 lest I risk going deaf. Together it sounds great.

So this brings me to few questions/conclusions.

1) Is it possible that there is something wrong with my MS600's analog out? Seems surprising to me that Meridian would implement an analog out that could be over-driven - that's what it sounds like. If it's normal then I would have to say I'm not impressed - not for the $ asked for such an inflexible DAC.

2) If this is normal and you want to use the variable output you will need a power amp that has enough gain to make sure you don't need to creep up the volume ladder.

This is what can happen with hot ridding Hi-Fi. You have to trial and error components to get the sound you want. A lot of people enjoy this approach and it is a lot of the fun and interest in the Hi-Fi hobby.

The Meridian way (as I understand it) is a pure digital path through Meridan components with known perametres. Active (at least) or preferably DSP speakers also play a major, if not pivotal role in achieving the best reproduction of audio true to the original recording.

If Meridian did not accept they live in the real world, I do not think they would include a DAC at all.
This is not what Meridian are about today, just too many variables that can compromise the sound.
With all this in mind, you need a different amp to get the sound at the volume you require but this is not Meridians focus, as I see It.

All feed back on such setups is great though as it helps many people plan what they are going to audition or purchase.

Just my thoughts, Chris

If Meridian tap into a small part of a much bigger market, it would help turnover/reputation (hopefully)/crossover immensely. So they really need to do both, there are plenty of people on here who are using their own DACS/amps/speakers and enjoying the result (I hope). With new DACs coming out all the time, I have niggling thoughts about the fact that I'm tied to one, and not a new one. You (I) just have to keep believing! Does sound good though (and look good).

I think if you go past 85 you may be past unity gain on the source. You really should not exceed unity gain on a source and use the power amp to increase volume instead. But may be wrong about this.

Ian , I think you are correct.

Err...so then why does the software to allow you to go past this point? Software bug? Why have a variable analog output at all if it can't deliver the goods?

If Meridian want to use the Apple business model and only talk to other same branded gear then why give the MS600 balanced outputs at all.

Because it is valid to do this, but as you found, the quality can degrade with some amps as they distort when the get a signal > unity.

In perfect world, you should run all source devices at unity gain (ie volume control does not attenuate or amplify the signal) which means that you do not run the risk of overloading downstream devices which I think is what you are hearing.

What you can do, it set volume at 85 (0db assuming this is unity gain which I think it probably is) and set volume on your power amp to a volume that exceeds what you are ever likely to listen to. You can then use the volume control knowing that it will always be attenuating rather than amplifying and thus not overloading your amp.

On some older Meridian preamps, you could set a max volume level but this was to prevent ear damage rather than distortion.

errr... set the vol on my power amp?

If you mean turn off the variable output in the MS600 and use a preamplifier then yes I could do that. But that's what I am currently missing and why I wanted to try the variable out. With the Krell its fine but not the Ref110. So now we know.

I still like this system but just disappointed. If a squeezebox touch can do it then you would like to hope an MS600 could do it waaaay better.

Just assume that 87 is max vol and be done with it. On some Meridian products they can display 0 instead of 87 for 0db (reference) and show +/- db so you know that you are attenuating or amplifying.

Just think of it that Meridian volume can go all the way to 11 ! Actually 99 where 87 is full scale.

Worth pointing out that some Meridian systems can do 99 with ease and that 87 (0db) should equate to reference SPL of 75db.

The analog output on the MS600 is really hot. My Pioneer SC-07 would indicate that it was being overdriven. On the MS600 setup webpage, go to the Audio Output section and decrease the Gain Offset. I had to drop it to -6db to keep the Pioneer from being overdriven. Meridian thought of us folks that use this with gear other than Meridian's.

I first read your posting as meaning that it is hot as in awesome. I have an MS600 analogue out going to my Staxes and it is a wonderful sound. Smooth, accurate, musical, precise. Everything I could want.

My upgrade path for that part of the system would first be spending many thousands more on high-end Staxes. (The set I have now set me back "only" about �1000.) I can hear the weaknesses of the headphones much more clearly than of the source.

About variable output I don't have much to say. Sorry.

Your Pioneer flashes up over as you are overloading the analogue to digital convertor in the receiever - its the same on my LX83.

Your right a 6db attenuation in the MS600 browser config sorts it out but that is I believe independent and sounds different to me to the variable analogue volume control.

(There is a setting in the Pioneer to attenuate it called ATT, if same as LX83 slide down the panel on the bottom of the remote and its no.4 button I think).

I have just started a post on this so glad someone else has - when I feed my G55 power amp via the MS600 as a preamp it doenst sound 100% right to me, like it's doing the job but not really as good as a proper preamp / processor - this could just be where I am used to certain sound though

That's what I am hoping I will gain when I get a G61 - a real high quality sounding analogue preamp?