Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Streaming Sooloos - why don't I buy

This post was inspired by the "Sooloos wish list poll" and some pent up thoughts.

I really want to buy into Sooloos but as I thought about it I realized I had some concerns about Meridian's culture and approach to product development. Perhaps more than the lack of product features, these intangible issues are keeping me on the side lines.

Can Meridian be a player in the long run or does the pace of software evolution one day devalue their product line. With Sooloos, M is competing firmly in the computer software world as well as the specialty audio business.

About six months back I bought a used Store/Source One to play with Sooloos in my home office but I use SqueezeServer/Duet/Box etc throughout the house. I find the iPad control app ok but slow and the whole system is a little buggy and lacking features. I find myself reluctant to commit spending so much time to get the meta data entered given that it is such a closed system.

A show stopper for me is the lack of track level meta data. I view this as an architectural flaw in the system.

Also, I have concerns that in a world where open source and community based development/support is the norm that Meridian's closed/secret/slow approach cannot compete. By being a closed system they are saying that their small dev team can develop everything and remain competitive... from Computers (C15), Network servers /NAS (Control/Stores), audio players and both Server and Client software across PC/MAC/IOS/Andrioid. etc Whew!

In today's iPad/iPhone/Andriod market companies release new versions of software daily/weekly. Rapid and frequents releases are the norm these day as it delivers value to customers faster, drives market share and creates loyalty. Especially, if you allow customers to interact with the developers and product mgrs to find bugs and suggest feature tweaks. Why would a company not want to accept the help and creativity of others?

Why not create APIs for Sooloos. Focus internal dev resources on core IP and let 3rd parties extend the product and create an ecosystem around it?

That ecosystem must also include a healthy community of enthusiasts supported by M. When I first got into M gear it was this Meridian unplugged community that answered my questions and allowed me to understand how to get full enjoyment from it. I am 100% positive I would not have got that from any dealer I have ever dealt with. Yet, it seems that M is squandering that support.

So for me the Sooloos features I want are....
- Track level meta data
- Allow me to use my own NAS server to store the data
- A cheaper source so I can afford to put it in places where where quality is needed less but I still want bit perfect.
- Or, allow full res streaming.. after all why worry, it does not compete with M's high end sources in terms of quality. Even the Ipeng app now allows 24/96K streaming.
- A more robust and polished iPad app
- APIs to allow geeks to extend/integrate the functionality for M
- PC/MAC clients - stop building proprietary computers just to host closed software. Allow me to install M server and client software on my own computers. I still need M playback hardware right?
- Keep going with the high end sources - great stuff! That is M's secret sauce

and the Culture changes I would like to see....
- Open communication - any would be a start
- More frequent releases & bug fixes
- Embrace the enthusiast community
- Go back to allowing customers to upgrade their own hardware firmware

Clearly these are my personal views and others most likely feel different but all the above is stopping me from investing in Sooloos. ...And by invest, I don't mean just the cost of the hardware. It is the time spent on my music data that concerns me the most.

I would love to use the new sources as I am sure they sound great... but...

I think M's philosophy is to control the whole chain of the system in the interests of optimum SQ. Introducing third party gear gives an unknown and they can't guarantee the resultant sound.

It is fast developing but I think M are right there at the front both in SQ and user interface (glitchy but fantastic).

I think buying in is very frustrating because of the issues you mention, but it's no secret, you know what you're buying in to.

Still adds up for me personally, it sounds fantastic. For me that's 95% of what its about.

Kind of hoping things are on the up as well.

Good Post. I have been sitting on the fence watching and waiting for M and other music server solutions (Linn, PS Audio, Bryston) to evolve further before I jump in. I am very interested to hear what the technical details are of the purported audio improvements are in the newly upgraded MC200. If in fact the sound through the analogue output section gets closer to the MS600 I may go for it, but if you still need to buy an external DAC for the MC200 then you are almost getting into MD600/MS600 territory. I say almost because I think the MD600 at $5000 US retail is way overpriced. I would like to see a lower priced scaled down store/core solution with a single removable drive bay (let the end user handle redundancy/backup).

In terms of customer support I would be fine with the M model of making dealers mostly responsible for support if in fact it really existed. How long have these products been out now? There is not one dealer anywhere close to me in southern CA that has an MC200 or MD600/MS600 combo to demonstrate. I want trust my ears and hear an MC200 through its analogue output section into some non M solid state electronics. Perhaps some of the US dealers are just not yet ready to support these new products. One dealer offered to sell an MC200 with 30 day return with a restocking fee. That is not a customer friendly solution.

Again, thanks for starting this post.

Al

Good topic, AudioBoy. I share your views and those of One2Many.

Now that Logitech has ophaned my Squeezebox Touch, I've also recently done some thinking on the pros/cons of my next step in computer music.

I purchased a Vortexbox Appliance (VBA) and SB Touch (SBT) about about 16 months ago. I didn't purchase Sooloos at that time because:

1. As someone who lives at least one time zone from an M dealer that is knowledgable and interested in my business, I have no confidence their customer service model of a dealer only gateway. I won't buy a new M product with their current customer policies.

2. Price. Would I buy a $6000 iPad if it were, say 10% better than a $600 version? No. The "special sauce" argument is getting weaker as other products like VBA and SBT with constant updates and open source derived tweaks close the SQ and interface gap for an order of magnitude lower cost.

3. Waiting years for M to fix known problems with their processors was a shame on them. To purchase a product like Sooloos which will need constant and timely updates and then have the same delays happen again would be a shame on me.

4. Finally, as an A/V enthusiast I feel that I am no longer a part of M's target market. I remember a commercial a few years ago for I-can't-remember-what where Jessica Simpson said "I don't know what it is, but I want it".
For me that sums up their target market for a complicated high-end luxury product that the dealer constantly services and the client only needs to know how to touch the "Play My Music" icon to get glorious sound. Great, but not for me.

16 months later, this is still why I don't buy Sooloos. I know others may beg to differ. That's OK.

Enjoy your music.

It's interesting to read of confidence in the open source community development overtaking Meridian with Sooloos, they haven't yet. (there is no will, geeks for geeks)

As for iPad app slow, it is reliant on wifi for its speed, get better wifi.
Track level data would be the gold standard, but I have to say that any lack of it has not stopped my enjoyment of Sooloos. Various artist albums are where I see it as most usefull, but I just add what I need.

So as I understand people waiting, I had to for the price to fall, but now you could be just enjoying music. There will always be a reason to wait in these fast moving days.

Good discussion, thanks, Chris

PS iPads are not perfect, they crash, I had to retype this for that very reason.

Chris, OT

You have often made comments about your iPad crashing. It's not right and I am convinced that something is wrong with it. Make sure you have diagnostics turned on and when it happens again, take it to Apple for them to take a look. If it's just an App closing rather than an iPad crash, then that is often a result of running low on memory where iOS will terminate applications to free up memory. This is normal expected operation. You can reduce frequency of this by restarting device or, from task bar, closing apps that you are not using. It may be that you have a very resource hungry app that is hogging all the memory.

I am with you guys that the iPad app is slow - a few people have posted about it, however that is not a deal breaker, it's not that slow.

It works ok - ok being the operative word, I have seen one update since ownership that improved things, we do need another as other similar apps are much better, however once you are used to it its not the end of the world.
In fact in a way it's better as it stops you keep skipping tracks all the time and it encourages you to listen to more songs from individual albums which is what you did with a CD player before and enjoyed so much.

The hardware is very stable - it never skips a beat which is why Meridian take control over the whole lot to ensure that, I can see that now - could that still be the case if a PC was feeding the M hardware - probably if the PC was looked after and high spec enough, however I know a lot of people who's PC/ Laptop runs really slow after about 6 months of bad ownership so that would affect the M hardware and cause them a load of grief from moaning customers.

I think it's all about the sound - do you like the Meridian sound and I don't mean from M to M to M, I mean from M to other hardware as well.

I am not getting anywhere near the full benefit of my M hardware with my other kit and current room acoustics but I am working on that. I listened to another system that cost a 10th of what the M kit did and it sounds very comparable at the moment which is heart breaking in a way but I know it's due to my room acoustics and amp - I will get to that.
I was a bit dissapoined with the MC200 at the time so bought the MS600, but again it was not the MC200 letting my system down.

I think if you like M sounding kit - you will not be dissapointed with the Sooloos setup.
To me it's much better than the 506.24 I had before, much better! But it has cost me aboout 6 x as much 506 I bought used.

If you look at what exists in terms of interfaces for other media streamers, Sooloos is still out in front, whether you are talking about open or closed source. I have seen some clever apps that use your Last.fm account to create playlists but this isn't done on-the-fly, you generate a list then listen to it.

Couple that with sound quality the likes of which only Linn and Naim approach (if you like their presentation) and it's probably still well ahead of everything else.

I think audioboy is spot on.

Sooloos may still be the best interface but it's standing still. It will soon (if not already) be passed by the rapid development of the competition. Even my TV can now perform much the same trick.

The MD600/MS600 I have are fantastic (I don't regret buying) but they are over priced. Especially the MD600. And I am annoyed that I can't even use the MS600 as an external DAC for other sources. And let's not mention that there is no direct Sooloos interface for a G68 or a new version thereof.

I suppose M is relying on 'idiots' like me to pay anyway - Perhaps M should triple the price and then pair it with a diamond encrusted iPad - Paris Hilton would buy it to go with her lifestyle speakers and her inwall(YAWN!) speakers.
But then why would I buy an over priced grey boring M box when I can buy super priced audio bling like the Burmester 111 Reference Music Server. Audio research, Pathos now have similar.

I suppose it depends where they are trying to position themselves as a brand. At the moment it seems like they are trying to be Bang & Olufsen. Or with regard to the communication thing more like Apple. Where you don't have bug fixes - just upgrades of a previously perfect product. And the sheeple that buy them just accept what they are given and assume it's the best because its Apple. Meanwhile the rest of the world races past them.

So is Sooloos deemed as being in front of the competition becuase it will creat a playlist for you?

I.e. Swim / Focus.

I hardly ever use those features and prefer to select my own music - for that basic operation other iPad apps are faster, more detailed, better graphically etc.

This is where I think the App needs most work - just the basic browing speed of it, its content and its not the network as I have used 2 different systems next to each other on the same network.

Come on M we need a super update.

Just because you don't use focus or swim, doesn't mean it isn't a major selling point. I suspect a lot of Sooloos owners make a good deal of use of those functions whilst not being particularly concerned about sound quality.

They do need to keep working on the interface though.

I didnt mean to imply they are not selling points because I dont use them - I meant are those features what is meant when Sooloos is said to be ahead of the competition - I meant it as a question.