Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems How good is the 800 series DVD player?

Hi,
I currently have a Tag DVD32R, but since they dont look like they will be offering the upgradability that I bought it for, I've been thinking about a change.

Now I understand that the player is excellent musically, but how good is it in the video department? Better than a Tag (if so, by much)? Better than the new Linn Unidisk or an equivalent unit from Krell or Theta or even someone else?

How does the upgrade path work? I understand that the player is on version 3 at the moment, but can someone tell me when version 1 came out and the process that you go through to get an upgrade? An indication of the upgrade cost would also be helpful.

Also is there anywhere on Meridians site that lists all the boards that can be fitted (and prices)?

Lots of questions, but I am trying to justify it over something like the Linn that will cost half as much.

Thanks for your help.
Laurence

Hi Laurence,

Ill try to help you evaluate the situation.

The first question as I see it is, are you happy with your Tag player right now? If the answer is yes, then I don`t see any downside to waiting. Waiting gives you the benefit of seeing where things go in the market.

What processor are you using now? 861?

if the answer is yes to the 861, then you will be able to:
1- listen to DVD-A with 861 v3 or v4 (I don`t know the v# for the 800); and

2- decode Dolby digital and dts inside the 800 and that allows the 861 to upsample the soundtracks. this produces a more "high-fidelity" sound out
of movie soundtracks. I would continue to describe it as "cinematic" and "wide". It sounds great. But there is one issue that some of us have found
and that involves the lack of bass when using this. I found that with v4 in my setup with digital speakers this issue has gone away, but others tell me they still have it.

Regarding the loss of bass with the 800+861 upsampling movie soundtracks: It seemed to a few of us that it was more than just the LFE track. I did measure that the LFE track with the 800 decoding was 10db lower than the 861 decoding. the fix for this would seem to be to have the 861 add +10db to the LFE channel. When this was done the resulting sound still seemed to lack the cinematic weight that the soundtracks decoded by the 861 had. This was with v3. With V4 in my setup, I`ve measured the LFE track as equal between the 800 decoding or the 861 decoding. Also, just listening between the two does not have any loss of bass with the 800 decoding. I am using a bunch of DSP speakers without a sub. Deniz tells me that with V4 in his system he still thinks he missing some bass with the 800 decoding the soundtrack. Whats different in our systems? He`s using a sub and analog speakers. I wouldn`t want to say that`s where his issue is, but my inclination would be to look at trying measurements w/o the sub to eliminate the sub as a factor.


so that`s the audio side, now here`s what I see on the video side.


What video processor and what display are you using?

I am using a runco 5000ci with ~30' throw distance on to a 96" wide 16:9 screen. I sit ~14' from the screen. This is important because video
artifacts (defects in the image) will be easier for me to spot vs someone watching a 42" plasma sitting 10' away.

I`ve never seen a tag DVD player except once at a show and it wasn`t playing anything- it did look nice though- so I can`t comment on a comparative
basis.

As far as video quality three things strike me about the 800.

First the 1 bad thing: the chroma bug. On a large screen, this is very easy to spot and I happen to find it annoying. If you don`t know what this is, or have a smaller screen, you really won`t have to worry. This also is why I asked you about a video processor. Not that this truly makes up for it, but the Faroudja video processors will mask the chroma bug. I don`t know exactly how they manage this, or if it`s intentional or not. One thing though is that the chroma bug is not unique to the 800- many DVD players are affected. For a long time only Panasonic players were the only ones I knew about that did not suffer from this.

FYI, according to the web link I put at the bottom, it seems your Tag player does not suffer from the chroma bug. You can search around their site to learn exactly what this is and why its annoying.

The good things are 1- no perceptible added ringing and 2- color rendition in the form of “natural colors”.

So is it worth it? Well, depending on how big a screen you have the ringing will be either too easy to see or not. I`ve noticed that ringing and a players high frequency performance are often related- usually players that give good higher frequency performance introduce some measure of ringing. The 800 has some roll off- but not too much- and it seems to me that what Meridian has done is to figure out the right amount of performance to keep while managing to keep ringing imperceptible.

The colors, compared to my previous DVD player- the Panasonic H1000- are more subtle and realistic. This is a very nice player, but compared to the output of the 800 the colors seem to have a little less depth and skin tones look less “real”.

In so far as the other high-end players- I`m skeptical and the reason is with the 800, Meridian built their own DVD player from the ground up. I don`t know about all the companies you listed, but many will use someone else`s player as a base and build on that. To me there is something inherently wrong with this because having a player that was built to the highest standards from the ground up like the 800 is something that you can say makes it worth it- why settle for the compromises that go into a $200 player. For example, many companies use a pioneer player as their base. Lets just say I am less than fond of this players output. Now any high end company will see the same things and have to devise all kinds of work arounds. It is s shame the 800 has the chroma bug, but that is it. Many of these other players will likely exhibit the chroma bug and other artifacts.

If you`re going to consider another player, I can only recommend players by Panasonic as they seem to build some pretty good DVD players. This is what I would look at for another room if I needed one.

800 upgrade path- aside from the obvious that it`s upgradeable, I can`t tell you the history. Sorry.

I can tell you that I am overall very happy with my 800 and there is no buyers remorse here. There is nothing wrong with deciding this player isnt worth it because it is expensive and there are others that do much of what the 800 can, but I think if you look at the facts, Meridian does take it a step further in many areas and to me that makes it worth it. The relevant question now is: does that make it worth it for you. Thats your call. Let us know.

here are a few links you may find interesting
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-meridian-800-dvd-player-10 -2000.html

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_1/meridian-800-dvd-machine-1-2001.html

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_2/krell-dvd-standard-dvd-player-6-2003.html

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volu...-report -chroma-bug-4-2001-list.html [/URL]

I hope all this helps you out. Im by no means an expert, but I have spent some time forming my opinions.

[This message has been edited by JerryL (edited 08-03-2003).]

Superb info Jerry, and useful to all of us who are mulling over the 800 series. Thanks for taking the time to answer so comprehensively.

Cheers

George

Jerry,

One quick point -- 800 only exhibits chroma bug with interlaced output. Faroudja deinterlacing will eradicate chroma bug with its vertical low pass filter for progressive output.

Regards,

Thanks John. Thats true. Thats also why I asked Laurence if hes using a video processor.

I believe Meridian just doesnt buy sufficient enough MPEG decoders to dictate to the manufacturers what they should do. Meridian must feel there is something desirable about the one they've chosen.

I believe the upcoming DVI output card will use faroudja deinterlacing and scaling and I am hoping and assuming it will mask the chroma bug.

So I think Meridian could take the approach that the Chroma bug isnt that terrible a problem because anyone who will buy an 800 for use on a large screen setup (most people) will likely purchase either an outboard video processor, with decent odds on it being Faroudja or Meridian's own 480p component out card or DVI output cards. All of these eliminate this as an issue for almost everyone.

I wouldnt disagree with this possible viewpoint, but I believe we will be best served with as good a MPEG decoder as we can get. Hopefully there will be some kind of fix/upgrade to truly eliminate the upsampling error.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Jerry, I am happy with the Tag (sort of). My one doesnt have the prog scan upgrade and to be honest I dont see the point of spending any more money on it if its never likely to get DVI/HDMI, which I consider important for the future.

My current system consists of the Tag DVD player, processor and amp (so all Tag really). Its currently connected to some Mission speakers, buts that likely to change to some B&W Nautilus speakers fairly soon. Im likely to get a new power amp, which means its as good as time as any to change the DVD player and processor as well

Display is a 42" plasma, which I'll probably change to a 50" one and at a later date will hopefully add a projector.
Im also investigating scalers, so theres a good chance one of those will be added sooner rather than later.

Thanks for the links, Im slowly making my way through them.

Had a demo of the Linn stuff at the weekend and it was very impressive. Hopefully have a demo of the Meridian stuff next weekend. Had a quick play with it and seemed rather nice

Laurence

Jerry,

I agree that in a perfect world, we'd have MPEG decoders that don't have chroma bug.

At this point in time, all my viewing is progressive and the Faroudja hides nicely the chroma bug.

FWIW, with the exception of Chroma Bug the Meridian players perform extremely well -- take a look at Greg Rogers' review in Widescreen Review.

Still, if M gets the opportunity to switch for a CBF (Chroma Bug Free) MPEG decoder I'd be delighted.

Regards,

Just a quick question for 800 owners out there. I am looking to buy one early next year and note that 2 new cards should be available by then - the HDMI and DVI if I am not mistaken. Will these replace the standard component out of the 800 or are they addon cards? - I ask as they both seem to have component outputs on them.

Chris

I beleive they will be add-on cards. Seems logical as the digital signal is on the backplane, and can be used by more than 1 card.

The VE-10 users have it also next to the default VE-00 card i think.

And you also could want interlaced output for whatever source next to you non interlaced on toward the plasma/projector.

I for example use the component output to feed my scaler, and the composite for a 15" TFT screen which i use for DVD-A playback only.

Jaco

Despite being reasonably happy with my 800 V3 I'm not sure I would unreservedly recommend it, mainly due to the large asking price. It is not perfect, no component is, but IMHO it is less perfect than it should be for the price.

As I posted recently, the audio output IS improved by having the modification of a better internal clock. The massive buffer system Meridian use works up to a point but it is operating on a less than well clocked signal in the first place. I'm baffled (unintended pun - maybe my thinking needs reclocking!) why Meridian do not install a better timing clock to further reduce jitter. At the price they ask it should be a fundamental inclusion.

Now one of the attractions of Meridian to me was its upgradability. I naively thought that this would involve software upgrades, not expensive hardware upgrades, some involving returning the unit to someone for expert attention. So, I would never advise someone to purchase an earlier model to upgrade unless the purchase was a steal.

As for DVD-A, I've been diasappointed and am not currently buying this software. To me there is enough musical pleasure to be gained from CDs.

On the video side I'm not sure how the 800 ranks relative to others. The chroma bug does not apply here as component signals go to a Barco VSE40 which quadruples before passing on to the Barco 808s projector -> 96" wide Stewart screen. On top input (usually PAL) the picture is crystal sharp but there is far too much medicre material out there. Not so much in movies, but in musical items such as ballet, opera and musical documenties that are of more interest to me. I can often record on S-VHS and on hard disk better quality off satellite broadcasts than are available on many commercial releases. The 800 certainly shows up defective software but I cannot give advice about whether it is level with the best that is available out there.

Bottom line question: would I purchase an 800 if, knowing what I do now, I had my time over again? I'm really not sure but I suspect that one could obtain at least equal results with a less expensive unit suitably modified by a change of internal clock & a couple of other mods. However I would NOT part with my 861 and would recomment its purchase to anyone who could afford it.

John

John,
What issue of WSR is that in? I stopped getting it a while ago- they seemed to push DTS so much that I just couldnt take it and let my subscription lapse. I probably shouldnt.

Lawrence,
I wish you luck on your gear search. that can be a lot of fun. do yourself a favor, if theres even a slight chance of your getting Meridian digital speakers, give them a listen. you will at least know if you like them or not. one thought regarding amps/ speakers. decide which speakers you want first, then get an amp that can drive them. getting an amp first can mean it might not have enough power for your speakers.

Let us know how things turn out.

Jerry, if you are interested in the 598 PDF, drop me a email. Your adres registered here seems to bounce.

Jaco