Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Streaming MS600 Digital or Analogue Output

I am considering adding a Sooloos system to my mainly analogue set up and would like to rack your brains for what you think would be the best set up option.

AFAIK, the MS600 will take the digital signal from a C15 / TwinStore / MC200 and pass it through something akin to a ID40 card. It then can either go out analogue via balanced or unbalanced cables to a preamp or one can even use its digital coax out and go into another DAC, in this case an Orpheus One SE.

Which route is likely to sound better?

As I understand the Sooloos really benefits from the ID40 but after that? If I connect it digital out into my DAC it would really be no different to connecting a 808i.3 with ID40 using its digital out to a pair of DSP speakers and its associated dacs wouldn't it? And I am presuming that is the way most people of 808i.3 would go (it was the way I went when I had 808i.2 + DSP8ks).

Any thoughts? or do you think the MS600 is not necessary and I can just go Sooloos SPDIF to the Orpheus DAC???

Demoing will be difficult so all comments welcome.

Cheers

howie

Hi Howie
If I take your previous 808.2i to D8k Pair as a baseline (as I cannot speak about your current system), then I think an 808.3 to D8k pair will offer a noticeable performance upgrade

Likewise, the Output from the 808.3 DAC's are alleged to offer better performance

I don't think the MS600 will be on the same level as your previous 808.2i or 808.3........from either the Digital or especially Analog Outputs............I still think the MS600 Outputs will be very good, but while Meridian have built MS600 from the ground up as a likely low-jitter device, I don't think they will have designed the �1,250 MS600 to match the performance of the �11,000 808.3...........quite obviously I could be wrong as I haven't heard the MS600, as many here also have not

My advice

a) If you're sold on the whole Sooloos User Interface and Architecture, then buy a Control 15 and run the SPDIF out to your DAC..........Does your DAC take a High Rate 24/88khz Output??.......The latest Control 15 has Apodizing built in, so the Digital Output will offer very good performance, albeit a step behind the 808.2i

b) After a few weeks, arrange a Long Term Demo (or Sale-or-Return) of an MS600.........take the Digital out from that to your DAC...........compare the C15 Digital Output to that from the MS600......see which you prefer

c) My GUESS is that you would be better off sending the Digital Out from the C15 or MS600 to your DAC.........but again the above would allow you to play around with the options at home and decide for yourself

Thanks Ronnie. The DAC accepts up to 24/96. That would be the cheapest option as well but I keep hearing from real users that the MS600 is mandatory for good sound.

howie

Understanding the Sooloos Architecture is important, but in summary

** The 808.x will Replay a 16/44 file from its "Internals".....Upsample, RE & Apodize to 24/88......Encrypt it with MHR and pass it along to the next Digital Device

Both the C15 and MS600 will do exactly the same thing.........play the file from its "Internal Components".........Upsample, RE & Apodize to 24/88..........also Encrypt to MHR if required

After that, it will be down to the Design & Layout of the MS600 versus the Control 15.........the Control 15 is an evolutionary product from the independent Sooloos days, but Meridian have made significant changes internally that many are happy with........by contrast the MS600 is a ground up design by Meridian and likely to offer Low Output Jitter

There aren't enough MS600 Users here to report and I think the only way forward is a Demo.......hence my suggestion above of a long term home demo..........that way, you can judge for yourself

Having said that, I think the ID40 Card within an 808.3 (or possibly 861v6) will still offer the Ultimate Level Performance from a Sooloos system..........but there is obviously a very high price to pay for that last x%

Agreed but a new 808i.3 would mean throwing away my current CD set up or there would too much overlap, never mind the cost!

I did think of it actually, trading in my Orpheus transport and DAC for a 808i.3, getting a Sooloos set up and hey presto once should have a very good sounding server and CD player in one box on the shelf.

But the Orpheus is an excellent player hence my wish to achieve similar but with a MS600 doing the M magic. Upstream whether it is a C15 and TwinStore, MC200 and TwinStore and simply a MC200 for starters would be less critical since I intend to use the iPad App.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.....

I think the MC200 is a very good starting point, as it is also a ground up Meridian design

You miss out on the Sooloos UI with the iPad, but to me that's not an issue........to others, it's the major reason for buying Sooloos to start with

Buying an 808.3 JUST for the ID40 is obviously overkill.......but if one's starting point is the best sound quality from Sooloos, then that is likely the way to go..........I just don't know if it's really necessary and only the buyer can make their own mind on that Cost / Benefit ratio

I thought the MS600 was �1750 rather than �1250? Furthermore the 808.3 with id40 card does a great deal more than the ms600 as i understand it, including disc playback and preamp functions.

Whilst i too would expect the 808 to exceed the performance of the ms600 i think the price comparison (broadly speaking saying ms600 is 10% of the price of 808) is somewhat misleading.

My real hope now is for the cost of Sooloos storage to drop and improvements to the iPad app to allow the new MC200 to come closer to the control 15 for ease of use.

I think we're well aware of what the 808.3 can do.......

The point is that Howie has already declared thru his purchasing decisions that he does not NEED the Disc Playing and Preamp Facilities offered by the 808.3..........he is already covered by his existing equipment

Therefore, the choice for Howie if he decides to take the Sooloos route is Control 15 versus MS600 versus 808.3/ID40 Output to his Existing Preamp.........that is the decision I was attempting to quantify for HIS exact situation

Other situations are different and will have different parameters involved

Another thing to consider if purchasing the 808.3 for the ID40 functionality is how your listening habits might change. I used the 808i.2 extensively for CDs. I did the same with the 808.3 until I wired up my Sooloos system. Now, the only discs I spin are SACDs and DVD-As through a Marantz player. So, while you have a killer CD setup, you may not use it as much, if at all, if you have Sooloos through the ID40. The only time I spin a CD in my system is when someone brings one over.

Not sure I understand the fuss about the 808.3 if anyone is considering Sooloos with MS600. The review by Cordsman in TAS stated the audio quality from each was indistinguishable.

It was a result of his enthusiastic review I jumped into Sooloos and, although a very expensive and time consuming exercise, I have never regretted the move. Sure there are still a few bugs in the system and the Metadata base is sometimes lacking but the convenience and the superb audio quality more than justify the expense and effort. In the last 3 months since the Sooloos acquisition I've not listened to a single audio disc on the player, and the player (modded Esoteric UX-1) would match anything available anywhere.

Back to the initial query about audio quality ex MS600, I've done some careful comparisons and really cannot detect much difference between:

1. balanced digital audio (speakerlink) -> modded Benchmark DAC1 (balanced digital input) -> headphones (Sennheiser HD800)

2. SPDIF -> balancing transformer -> long run -> modded Benchmark DAC1 (balanced digital input) -> headphones (Sennheiser HD800)

3. SPDIF -> modded Benchmark DAC1 -> preamp -> amps & speakers

4. SPDIF -> Meridian 861 (Direct) -> stereo amps & speakers

5. Balanced analog out -> preamp -> stereo amps & speakers

The audio quality to the stereo amps and speakers (3, 4, 5) is top quality BUT not quite as good as to the headphones (1, 2) but otherwise, within each grouping above I can hear no difference.

Conclusion: the apodising filter & DAC in the MS600 is first class and cannot be improved upon in the system here.

I like a bit of added ambience with surround so when listening to speakers use no 5 above with feedback from the second preamp output back to the 861. Oddly, I do not miss it with the Sennheiser headphones as the soundfield they reproduced comes with a dose of ambience. Only downside is I'm not fond of wearing the headphones for too long.

A bit off topic but I'd like to throw in a huge benefit I find with Sooloos. A few discs are great to listen to for the whole 70 odd minutes BUT many become somewhat tedious with so many tracks of the same ilk. Using the Sooloos "swim" one can so simply move between different albums to give variety.

John

Having breakfast with Bob Stuart tomorrow morning, so I'll see if he can shed a bit more light on the MS600. I just received one the other day, but too busy getting ready for CES. Got the photos taken, but no time to listen!

Should be able to post some impressions soon.

Stay tuned.

Ronnie is correct in that the 808i.3's preamp functions would not be needed in my current system. Disc playing would only be needed if i sold my current cdp to buy the 808.

howie