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Joined: Jan 2001
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Vogon Civil Servant
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Vogon Civil Servant
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,014 |
And don't forget Cannonball on Alto...........  Exactly the type of "Live" Recording Session I was trying to describe If you like, try Something Else by Cannonball on Blue Note, which also has Miles and Art Blakey. Seminal!! Try for the Rudy Van Gelder (RVG) Remaster series And if you like those, I can tell you where to go to get them on 24/96 DVD-V's, which can also easily be Ripped to NAS etc., as no Copy Protection Enjoy
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 146 |
Hi Carl,
"PS I`m still waiting for someone to post a comparison an 808.3 against 800D/861v6 combination in an all DSP setup; one of you guy must have a setup to be able to do this"
As I've now joined the v6 club (thanks Gerry!), I'm able (and looking forwards) to compare the relative performance of my 808 (.2 though) vs the 'native' 44.1k output from my 800. This will be a good test of how good/effective the v6 apodizing is and will maybe help the 'do it early' vs 'it doesnt matter much' apodizing debate.
I reckon a couple of weeks bedding in and I'll be able to post some finding - mind you since the 1st week of 808 ownership and a quick comparo vis a vis the 800 upsampled outputs, I have NEVER played a CD using the latter spinner since - miles of difference! However, have an open mind, so let's see...
Cheers,
Andy
System 1: Control 15, 818v3, 800v3, 861v6, DSP8000SE, DSP7200HCSE, DSP8000.2, SW5500, HD621, 650BD, SkyHD, Radience XE, TH65PF12
System 2: MS200, 5200
System 3: MS200, F80
Sooloos: MD600: 2x3TB
On the move: Explorer 2, B&W P7W
Bedroom: F80+i80
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,014
Vogon Civil Servant
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Vogon Civil Servant
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,014 |
Hi Andy
Agree with you on the 808.2 versus the 800 for CD Replay. Noticeable differences and the 800 set the barrier quite high to start with!!
Hard to imagine they have gone backwards with the 800.3 and are more likely to pushed things even further forward. But pure speculation on that part as I haven't heard an 808.3 yet
Last edited by Ronnie; 2010-09-29 14:09.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 383
Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 383 |
If you like, try Something Else by Cannonball on Blue Note, which also has Miles and Art Blakey. Seminal!!
Try for the Rudy Van Gelder (RVG) Remaster series The RVG Remasters are not well regarded; try the Analogue Productions release of this title instead. Mark S
Mark Short
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,014
Vogon Civil Servant
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Vogon Civil Servant
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,014 |
Perhaps not well regarded by some............
The Classic DAD remains the definitive but the RVG of Something Else is not as forward as some others in the RVG series. Also, the Stereo Panning is reduced to almost a Mono mix, which is closer in sound to the the original LP releases. Those who have the 50's and 60's releases on Vinyl are much more sympathetic to the RVG remasters and their Mono bias
The fact that it was Rudy who made the original recordings as well as being present during them, is also a factor worth considering. He has also expressed his desire to make the Remaster closer to how he felt they sounded "live".
Anyway, if one likes the Music, there are many recordings which one can choose from, but the 24/96 (also 24/192 on the same disc) remains definitive IMHO
Now back to regular programming.......
Last edited by Ronnie; 2010-09-29 15:49.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 170
Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 170 |
Apodizing vs. non-apodizing upsampling. In my opinion, this depends very much on source material. The human hearing system evolved to be sensitive to the smallest nuances in a natural (live) acoustic. It is logical, therefore, that material recorded in a live environment, rather than unnaturally "produced" in a recording studio, stands to gain the most from apodizing. I agree with this Well recorded Live music and also Studio Sessions which have as little as possible Processing and Reverb going on. "Live" Session in the Studio so to speak Adding to the above, I think the following Music types or instruments are good for identifying sound quality differences (at least to my ears) - bare bones Female Vocals (including Opera) - Jazz and Classical Piano - Jazz Trumpet & Saxophone recorded in a "live" unprocessed session - certain Classical / Orchestral pieces which explore a wide dynamic range and presentation That's not to say that these are the Only music types that differences can be heard on, it's just that in my experience, differences are easier to detect with those types of recording YMMV yES yES yES, exactly I to agree with VK & Ronnie. I recall we clearly established this when the HD621 first came out. Apodizing varied depending on the music type, recording and treatment didn't necessarily make things better. Carl and everyone thank you for all your contributions. I echo Carl's request too, has anyone out there run the 808.3 against the C15? Best, Jay
861v4 & v6, 800v4, 808.3, pr of 8k's, 5.5k 24/96(x3), HD621, Velo15, Modded OPPO BD83, Pioneer DVL-91combi, Technics SL-1200MK2, Musical Fidelity XLP, Kuro151FD, MIT & Kimber, 519, & Harmony 1K, member since July 2000
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 Likes: 1
Paranoid android
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Paranoid android
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 Likes: 1 |
Carl and everyone thank you for all your contributions. I echo Carl's request too, has anyone out there run the 808.3 against the C15?
Best,
Jay I've run the 808.3 playing a CD against the 808.3 playing the same CD through the ID40 against playing the same CD out of the speakerlink connection on the C10. The 808.3 playing the disc and ID40 through the 808.3 were identical. Try as I might, I couldn't hear a difference. They were both clearly better than the C10 through speakerlink into a pair of DSP8ks. This was all very subjective but the difference manifested itself in the placement of instruments and voices in the soundstage. The 808.3 is clearer. The dynamic range seemed to be the same. Sorry, but I have no C15 to try.
Regards,
Bill
Theater: 861v8+ID41, 218, (2) DSP8KSEs, DSP7200VCSE, (2) DSP5200s, Marantz UD9004, (2) JL Audio F113s, Roon
Whole House: 218s, DSP520s, DSP 320s, Roon
Office: 218, DSP3200s, Roon
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,314
Senior Shouting Officer
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Senior Shouting Officer
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,314 |
Just want to chime in here and say thank you to Carl and to everyone for a great discussion. I've been enjoying reading it. Btw- I think my brain has some form of jitter today. :p
Best regards,
Jerry
Main System: 861v6, DSP8000s in corners, DSP7000s Center and Sides, 1-9 humans.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,506 Likes: 78
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,506 Likes: 78 |
Hi all,
I had a little time off before Christmas (before I caught a cold that has wrecked most of this week) and used the opportunity to re-compare the 800D v Sooloos (without using the ID40); specifically focusing on apodizing.
Sooloos C15 (SpeakerLink, apodizing an upsampling) to 861v6.
Against
800 (coax, upsampling).
After playing some �live� recordings there is definitely an improvement with the Sooloos; so I have revised my finding for Redbook CD.
C15 = 800 (For studio recordings)
C15 > 800 (For �live� recordings i.e. not close mic-ed studio mixes with added reverb; esp. with female vocals)
I�ve kept a note of the tracks I used, should any one be interested.
Regards,
Carl
861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,506 Likes: 78
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,506 Likes: 78 |
I`m still waiting for someone to post a comparison an 808.3 against 800D/861v6 combination in an all DSP setup; one of you guy must have a setup to be able to do this.
861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 8,364 Likes: 14
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 8,364 Likes: 14 |
So you purposely compared them without ID40 for an apples to apples comparison? Be curious if you set HS=N and then compared again. Only if you have time to burn
- Fiddler (IMHO)
If you think listening to music is fun, try learning an instrument.
HT: G61RSL, 4x5K, 5.5KHC, 2xSC6000, Transporter, HD621, Philips BDP7501 4K, Tivo, 65" LG OLED 4K C6
Computer: Foobar2000, 5K, Mojo, HiFiMan HE1000 V2
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,506 Likes: 78
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,506 Likes: 78 |
Hi George,
I did a whole raft of comparisons, see post #126301 - 2010-09-29 06:12 in this thread; including HS=N and using the ID40.
What I can't do and have not seen is an 808.3/CDROM v 808.3/ID40 critical comparison, but I recall someone posting that they could not distinguish between them; which is what I suspect.
Regards,
Carl
861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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