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Joined: Jul 2010
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Harmless
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Harmless
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Hello all,
I've just installed a Meridian 861v6. However, there is a slight problem with DTS-HD Master Audio on Bluray. (DTS on DVD's plays fine).
The Meridian Processor does not switch to DTS playing a Blu-Ray disk. (Dolby TrueHD has no issues) Titles used Terminator 2 & 2012. Instead the Dolby orange indicator lights up.
As setup HDMI is used over a HD621 switcher. I've tried both a MMHR cable as well as a Digital SmartLink connections. Both have the same problem.
The Digital Coax option works fine though.
The Blu-Ray player is a Pioneer BDP-LX91 firmware level 2.65. (The Latest) connected using the HDMI Main Out, and set as HDMI multi channel out (Auto).
Since everything else is working fine, I suspect a firmware incompatibility. Anybody has the same setup working?
Thanks all for reading.
Guido.
568.1 Processor, 562v3 MController, 596 DVD Player, 504 Tuner, MC200, MS600, 218, 210, Roon
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 531
Paranoid android
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Paranoid android
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 531 |
Hi Guido,
Just curious why you're not using lossless HD audio output as LPCM from the LX91 rather than lossy bitstream version.
Avii
Life but not as we know it...
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Meridian Partner Senior Shouting Officer
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Meridian Partner Senior Shouting Officer
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,165 Likes: 67 |
Hi Guido,
I don't think you have a problem!
DTS-HD master Audio is unpacked in the Blu-ray and sent to the HD621 as PCM down the HDMI cable. The HD621 removes the PCM from the HDMI and then sends this to the 861v6 on MMHR.
The 861v6 'sees' this as MMHR (PCM) not 'DTS' so doesn't light up any DTS logos on its front panel.
If you use a single digital coax then you are getting the (poorer quality) normal DTS bitstream as AVii points out. The 861v6 'sees' this as 'DTS' and lights up accordingly.
As far ae the 861v6 is concerned both DTS-HD Mster and Dolby True HD are the same thing, multichannel high resolution PCM.
Rick
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 218 Likes: 2 |
The DTS indicator will not light as the 861 is seeing LPCM from the HD621 - my v6 does the same when fed DTS-MA from a PS3.
As long as the 861 switches to the CINEMA preset everything is fine.
Meridian Owner since 1991
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Paranoid android
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Paranoid android
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 531 |
If you use a single digital coax then you are getting the (poorer quality) normal DTS bitstream as AVii points out. The 861V6 'sees' this as 'DTS' and lights up accordingly. I can't recall what the LX91 actually does in HDMI audio out "auto" mode as I sold mine a while ago. I think in theory is should revert to the lossy codec bitstream i.e. DTS core for DTS HD MA. My G61R report DTS 2/3.1 for DTS HD MA when my current player forces bitstream over HDMI via the HD621 with the title I tried. I guess the OP's question is why doesn't the 861 report DTS (as the G61R does ) using a the lossy core of DTS HD MA over HDMI (assuming that's what the LX91/specific titles provide)? Avii
Life but not as we know it...
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Harmless
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Harmless
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Hi all, Many thanks already for your quick feedback. The reason why it's strange to me, is because I saw this working (DTS indicator active) with a 861v4 in the same setup. Anybody knows why? To answer to Avii's question, you mean setting the HDMI setup to 'PCM' in the Pioneer instead of 'Auto'? Well in that case I assumed no indicator would light up, but I would not assume better quality. My client likes indicators  See HD audio out bitstream vs pcm multi-channel But I might be wrong, I'll do some 1-one-1 checks again. I've re-configured the processor to come in "DISCRETE" on multi-channel, not "CINEMA" so I assume if that is indicated, this is also ok? Guido.
568.1 Processor, 562v3 MController, 596 DVD Player, 504 Tuner, MC200, MS600, 218, 210, Roon
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Don't Panic!
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Don't Panic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733 Likes: 88 |
I've re-configed the processor to come in "discrete" on multi-channel, not "cinema" so I assume if that is indicated, this is also ok? No, this is the wrong thing to do. "Discrete" is for multi-channel music; you should use "Cinema" for multi-channel movies, otherwise you'll be 10dB light on the LFE channel. Edit: Generally speaking, if the 861 reports "Music6"' then the HD621 believes the multi-channel signal is music; if the 861 reports "Movie6", the HD621 thinks that the signal is a movie.
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Paranoid android
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Paranoid android
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 531 |
Yes I've seem many of those types of threads. The fact is a DTS/Dolby light on 861 doesn't mean it's processing lossless DTH HD MA or Dolby True HD just the lossy versions of those codecs output by the player. As for the thread you linked I'd be very curious about some of the claims that Audyssey doesn't work with LPCM and only bitstream. This isn't my experience. Avii
Life but not as we know it...
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Paranoid android
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Paranoid android
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 531 |
I've re-configed the processor to come in "discrete" on multi-channel, not "cinema" so I assume if that is indicated, this is also ok? No, this is the wrong thing to do. "Discrete" is for multi-channel music; you should use "Cinema" for multi-channel movies, otherwise you'll be 10dB light on the LFE channel. Edit: Generally speaking, if the 861 reports "Music6"' then the HD621 believes the multi-channel signal is music; if the 861 reports "Movie6", the HD621 thinks that the signal is a movie. Does that mean Meridian smart detection gets is wrong ? Blu-ray movies always appear to default to "discrete" on my setup (?) Any idea how M decides is discrete rather than movie? Avii
Life but not as we know it...
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Harmless
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Harmless
Joined: Jul 2010
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Nice discussion.
I've actually countered the LFE problem, by manipulating the DSP profile to increase the LFE by 10db. I think the cinema does more processing. My client wanted the signal to be a straight as possible.
Just thinking, maybe the DTS indicator worked on the v4 since it could not handle 96kHz, and did not do Lossy?
568.1 Processor, 562v3 MController, 596 DVD Player, 504 Tuner, MC200, MS600, 218, 210, Roon
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Paranoid android
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Paranoid android
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 531 |
I think the cinema does more processing. My client wanted the signal to be a straight as possible. I'm not 100% on this but both "discrete" and "cinema" appear to have similar DSP processing options. I guess how much processing occurs depends on the specific setting applied. "Direct" appears to offer fewer DSP processing options. AVI
Life but not as we know it...
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Paranoid android
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Paranoid android
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 531 |
There's been and continues to be much debate around source versus sink based decoding. I've seen very little input from what I would call people who are in a position of knowledge/experience to clarify. That said Charles Hansen founder/designer of Ayre Audio recently replied to the question - I've heard some people claim that the undecoded streams are less affected by jitter than LPCM. Anything is possible. But it's not clear to me why that would be the case. The problem was literally that the HDMI connector was designed before the rest of the system, and they didn't have a spare wire to use as an audio clock (although there is a spare wire that has never been used for anything -- go figure).
The video clock is sent, which for 720p and 1080i is 74.25 MHz and for 1080p is 148.50 MHz (or that times 1000/1001, thanks to NTSC). Then the source sends signals to the receiver telling it what ratios to use in the audio PLL to recover the audio clock from the video clock.
In the best of circumstances this is a relatively high-jitter way to generate an audio clock. So the receiver is stuck with a jittery audio clock. The question is "Will sending packetized bitstream information create lower jitter than sending PCM?"
I can't think of a single reason why this would be true. The bitstream information has to be decoded by the receiver. Then it is in PCM form, which the DACs chips can understand. So in either case the net result is to send PCM to the DAC chips. And the conversion to analog is controlled by the local master audio clock. And that is all that matters -- how low is the jitter at the DAC chip.
[b]So I would say that the claim of sending bitstream resulting in lower jitter is an urban myth. Avii
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