Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Apodising on HD621 vs 861v6.

I have an HD621 feeding into the 861v4.
I understand the apodising filter in the 861v6 is an improved version over the HD621?
If so, does anyone know if the apodising filter is firmware upgradable in the HD621 or whether its hardware encoded onto a chip, and hence cant be upgraded by software/firmware update.
Is apodising processing a programmable chip, so improvements can be applied?

I note there is a new firmware update for the HD621 (v1.08 - 23rd Fed 2010).

I spoke to the Meridian Sales Director Paul Webb at the Manchester what-hifi show last October, and he told me the apodising processing took them 7 years to perfect!
Apparently a Soloos digital output into an scaler or other device which converts to HDMI, then into a HD621 and 861 is nearly as good as using their top of range CD player.

Thanks

James.

I suspect if there are differences it's to do with available mips than firmware.

This is a very interesting question for me. I would love to compare the v4 vs. v6 and of course vs. the g68. Since in my all digital DSP setup I did not hear an appreciable difference between the v4 and the g68 (as George grand-HH-puba Mills has also confirmed) I'm extremely curious what subjective flavor Bob Stuart infused into his latest creation. The reason I say this (hello vKv) is because we have been flirting with perfection for quite a while. The apodizing brought us to the brink of perfection. And I value greatly what the HD621 does and heard significant differences immediately upon putting her in the chain (the science of the HD621 is flavor independent for obvious reasons).

I'm very curious to read what the proud new v6 owner opinions are, but by how much will their impressions become tainted by the purchase of their shiny new $$$ v6? This is why I really enjoyed and appreciated George's sneaky little FLAC vs. MP3 file comparo here. How many of those individuals that answered correctly will have the new v6 in their setup?

I am in no way implying here that the v6 in an all DSP setup will not deliver some new level of clarity musicality etc. etc. I think I need a demo...

I agree. I think i need to go to a Meridian dealer and hear an 861v6, and take along my 861v4, to see if i can hear an improvement in sound quality when i swap between the two.

Wish Meridian would give some more details on what sound quality improvements there are on the v6 vs the v4. Does it have more processing power than the v4, or same number of mips?

In another post i was told that an apodizing upgrade is coming for the 861v4 next year, so wonder if it will be even better than the HD621 apodizing, and whether it will be a new digital input card for the 861, with apodizing for coaxial and optical inputs.

I look forward to future reviews from hitchhikers and a review in one of the home theater magazines, comparing the v6 and v4....

Hi Jimbo

Welcome to the forum. There's loads to read on apodising via past threads we've discussed, but I can possibly recap a few points:

Apodising works best the earlier it is deployed in the playback chain, therefore the source, or an HD621 is still the best place to have it, ie before entry to any 861.

When apodisng is made available for the G6x and 861v4, it will be via firmware upgrade. That's been indicated by Bob Stuart, but the timing is another matter!

It seems extremely unlikely that any further 861v4 compatible cards will be developed in light of the completely revised v6 design. As it stands, there are significant gaps in the v6's functionality due to lack of card options currently available for the older processors.

Cheers

George

And particularly, what benefits one would expect in an all-digital system.

+1 = all digi = verging on perfection as it already stands.

kVk

So "just" using a CD transport feeding the 861(with apodizing) is no difference as to have a HD621 in the chain.
But taken the argument-earlier is "better"-
then the 800 NOT the 861 have to get the apodizing.
To my knowledge there are about the same MIPS in the 800 and in the 861(what is left after MRC).
Could somebody confirm this?

Robert

Non-upsampling CD -> 861v6 has to sound superior to CD -> SPDIF HDMI converter -> HD621 -> 861v6.

Hi George
I have to admit that I have a slightly different interpretation of the above

I agree with the "earlier is better comment" and that is what I have always found with the legacy Upsampling as well, i.e. Upsampling in Source / Player >> Processor >> Speaker

However, for 2-channel sources (CD PLayer or Network Player) using a SPDIF out, then it would be best to input that directly into an 861v6 for Apodizing etc., i.e. not into an HD621, even if you have one

As we know, Meridian are anathema to HDMI and therefore disapprove of SPDIF to HDMI to avail of Apodizing in the HD621. Having said that, you may have seen a post on Friday about a comment on Friday from Meridian's Sales Director (I think) about putting a Sooloos SPDIF thru a VP to HDMI Out into a HD621 and that the results are very close to their 808.2i

Personally, I've tried 2-ch thru a DVDO VP to get HDMI into an HD621 and the sound is extremely good, i.e. better than an 800 Upsampling into an 861v4 (which has been my benchmark for several years now)

Where (I think) the "put the HD621's Apodizing in front of the 861v6" comes from is that for Bluray, the HD621 is necessary to avail of the Lossless Soundtracks. And because the HD621 has to be in the chain, then the "Deploy Apodizing as early as possible" advice comes into play

Personally, I'm still surprised by this advice (which comes from Audioimages, I've posed similar questions direct to Meridian and received different advice)

Meridian have always said that Apodizing sounds better the more MIPS you throw at it and therefore that the Apodizing implementation in the 808.2i was better than the HD621 due to this, but also due to more "Fine Tuning" during listening tests

As the Apodizing and Processing in 861v6 and 808.3 was a development of that in the 808.2, then I would have thought that the place to deploy Apodizing in a BD PLayer to HD621 to 861v6 would have been the 861v6

However, a case could be made that getting the 24/48 Streams from the BD Player into a 24/96 Stream will lead to less Interface Jitter and that this outweighs which component should do the APodizing

I certainly plan on turning Apodizing On and Off in the HD621 to see which option I prefer (obviously If and When I decide to get an 861v6)

Summary:

** If using an 861v4 or G68, Meridian may well still advise to take a CD or Media Player SPDIF Direct into the Processor and bypass the HD621

** I think the weight of evidence is against that "advice", i.e. even after "converting" the SPDIF into HDMI the HD621's Processing and Apodizing "improves" the resultant sound performance

** If using an 861v6, then Meridian would definitely say (and I would agree with them) that you should take your 2-channel SPDIF Direct to the 861v6 and bypass the HD621 and avoiding any SPDIF to HDMI "compromise"

Hi Ronnie

I agree with everything you note above. I gave Jimbo as concise an answer as time allowed when I posted, but you know how difficult it is to discuss the finer points of Meridian tech without adding half a dozen caveats and qualifications!

Cheers

George