Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Theatre Design Help...

I don't understand??


You have gone to a company who supplies kit and they have advised you on some kit that is out of your price range and over your budget, and can be bettered by far cheaper options.

So, all in all I can't see what your actually asking then and why you have complete faith in the company who have not stuck to the plan??


Seriously, what projector have they advised?? As there is only one worth considering right now imho.

What is the exact screen??

Why the [censored] have they recommended so many subs?? for a start they are not needed, expensive and will probably be a mare to integrate well compared with two nice 18" subs run in a mono configuration.


Basically, if you want to keep with the installer and keep the kit mentioned you have only one choice, stump up the money.

Joel, is the solution proposed something like that ?

http://widescreenreview.com/blog_detail.php?id=228

The number of speakers looks like what you have wrote :
http://www.triadspeakers.com/pmi/cedia/CinemaPlus_Handout.pdf

Serge.

Yes and no...yes, in that the design has been done by the same firm and no in that CinemaPlus is a canned (i.e. packaedged) solution whereas mine is a custom sultion meaning no constraints at all and satrting with a blank sheet of paper...

I will do my best to explain...




Not true...I went to a company who designs home theatres and paid them for the design and nothing more(i.e. they are not selling me any kit, they are not doing the construction, etc.)...I spoke with *BOTH* them and my local Crestron integrator and advised that something in the order of $X would be acceptable and *BOTH* though that my budget was reasonable...*BOTH* are/were shocked at the price of the construction cost estimates that were provided which, at the end of teh day, is where 80%+ of the cost overrun lies...and, the questions/analysis to be done now is why...

As far as whether it can / can not be bettered I ask that you provide the basis of the statement that "...can be bettered by far cheaper options...". I find this statement difficult to understand as i) I have not specified all of the audio equipment ii) I have not specified the room size iii) I have not specified any of the video equipment iv) I have specified any pricing for said equipment and v) so on and so on...




As far as what I am asking is advice as to which direction to proceeed given that the actual costs and the expected costs differ by such a huge delta; that is, which of the above options that I proposed (or, other options that you or other forums members come up with) makes the most sense given that spending 2X right now is not inteh cards...for example, as there those here who believe that the benefits of a sound engineered room are not worth the incremental/huge cost and that a Meridian system with properly calibrated DSP speakers would provide 85% to 90% of the benefit at a fraction of the cost because, should this be the case, then this would clearly be *THE* route to go...

As far as having complete faith in the company let me provide a short answer by saying that there are likely few among us who would argue that Tony Grimani does not know what he is doing...and, on a related point, the Crestron integrator that I am using is top notch based on *my experience*...as noted above, the first thing to do is undersatnd why the delta exists before accusing people of not sticking to the plan...




Why is there only 1 projector to consider right now and which projector would that be because were this statement accurate/true then only that projector would be the projector being sold yet many projectors are now being sold...out of curiosity, what projector is it that is the only projector worth considering?

While I in no way do I intend to be antogonistic can you even begin to see why your post is neither helpful nor insightful?




I am not a sound engineer but have been told that in a sound built/conditioned room it takes a number of subs to generate the pressure needed for proper bass control and volume...to the extent that there are any among us who are knowledgeable in this area I would ask you to weigh in...

In terms of calibration and integration of the subs this is why I went with Tony Grimani because he lives and breathes this stuff and, with the proper EQ equipment, the system would sing (pun inetended)!

The other thing -- and no offense is meant by this -- the profanity detracts from, rather than adds to, your arguement!




Enough said...

Sorry, I was being a bit pedantic.

However, I hear this all the time. Someone gets an expert in, they are positive they can get a design in for x amount and then when it comes down to it, the price doubles or triples.

I still don't get you post and your replies though, you asked whether you should drop the in wall stuff etc. and go with a fixed screen and something like the DSP 5200's, then when people say they would do that, you say....


So is changing the kit an option or not??

I don't know Anthony Grimani, from the info I can find he seems to own a company selling acoustic treatment, is that right??
Over here in Europe, if we get someone to design a room for us they generally work with suppliers and builders to come back with an design that fits within our original budget. It sounds like this guy just got a little over excited and went a bit overboard with the design and the kit.



I have heard and seen some serious rooms, they look great, and have some seriously top end kit in them, decent 3 chip DLPs that cinemas use for �250k, and commercial amps and speakers for another �100k, however, the overall image is not as nice as JVCs domestic designed DiLA for 25 times less money, (the new 990 is just stunning!!) and the sound although impressive for a cinema gets seriously tiring compared with things like the DSP5200's etc.

I have you been to a room set up with the kit that has been specced. for you?
Have you actually demoed this stuff properly??


How many builders have you got quotes from and what have they said to you after haggling??


Without more info I guess none of us can give any real advice.
We don't know a kit list, we don't know the room dimensions, we don't know the building and what it is made of, we don't know who is doing the work and whether you sourced them or the installer did etc. etc.

Off the top of my head I would guess a custom installer company would charge around �35k for the building work (around $60k). I would guess a small team of builders going off your plans would do it for less than half that and do most of the electrics too.



Regarding the 'can be bettered comment'.
I have heard very mixed reviews on those Triad speakers, they are great if you have no choice other than in walls, however, most agree that if you can put a proper speaker in you will get better results and for less money.
Same with the screen, you need to spend serious money on a non fixed screen to get the same results as the same material on a fixed frame.


Sounds like it should be a good room when done, so best of luck with it.

Joel,

Not weighing in as an expert but as a member that settled on an equalized, non-acoustically perfect room, I question how you would achieve what you want with all DSP speakers.

In terms of calibration and integration of the subs this is why I went with Tony Grimani because he lives and breathes this stuff and, with the proper EQ equipment, the system would sing (pun inetended)!

You could eq the subs but your room would need more than Meridian's basic EQ ability to sing. This is the current hitch with an all M speaker system for me. I use the NeptuneEQ with conventional speakers to great effect. I would love an all DSP system if I could integrate my EQ into the equation. IMO, to go all digital would require a pretty good room to start with if you expect it to truly shine.

Dave

<Not serious>

Seeing as you live in Toronto, could you not have some cowboy do the work and then get Mike Holmes on the job to fix it up properly?

BTW my wife swears I have a bromance for Holmes

Anyone claiming this does not know what he/she is talking about.

Joel,

1. By the looks of it, you have faith in Mr. Grimani and you really want to continue with him. Faith/good feeling in a builder/designer when doing work on a house is ofcourse a big plus.
2. His initial proposal is too steep. So discuss this with him. Tell him you have x amount to spent and he should design a system for that amount. Very simple actually
3. Focus on the room first. I see a big list of equipment, but what about the room?
4. Reuse some of your current equipment?

I tentatively reply to this post as I'm not actually what the op is asking. However I see simalarities with a number of design industries where big (or 'bigged up') names get involved - I have no idea who your designer is but I assume he fits into one of these categories.

What I witness is that when a large budget is available then the designer starts to 'experiment' at the clients expense which basically means that the designer is no longer the expert they once were so things like budgets rapidly get out of hand or become difficult to estimate accurately.

I do not know if this is what has happened in your case but if may be worth asking the designer to base his design on more convential principles where things are tried and tested and costs are easier to accurately predict.


It may be that your designer is a primadonna and has a hissie fit or they may just modify their design to bring costs back under control.

I suggest that this comes back to customer requirements and budget.

You are the customer and you set the budget and describe what you want to achieve. Your supplier has tendered what looks like a Rolls-Royce solution. I suggest you now engage with them to eliminate costs while minimising the impact on your desired outcome. For example, how many surround speakers and subs could be removed while still leaving a broad and deep frontal sound-stage to match the picture. How many people will typically occupy the room for viewings rather than design for the maximum, etc. All this is typical in my world of IT solution procurement and any commercially-minded supplier should jump at the chance to refine their pitch to get the sale. I'm afraid it won't happen in a satisfactory manner without that detailed engagement and refinement.

To my mind there is too much surround and sub in the proposed solution. I have no idea of the quality of the actual kit but, if I understand the Canadian$:� exhcange rate correctly, you could get a lot of very good Meridian DSPs for that money that would perform very well with the help of electronic room ccorrection.

I absolutely support the approach of getting the worst of the room fixed early. My under-construction "entertainment lounge" was designed with under-floor damping and relaid boards to eliminate springiness and echo, the curtain were selected for their sound-damping and light-blocking capabilities, the electrics were laid to be separate from the domestics and to provide multiple outlets on discrete labelled spurs in the right places. None of this was driven by anything other than just good basic perparation and a very understanding builder. Your supplier should do this stuff out of the box.

Joel,

From rereading this thread it appears that (please correct me if I have misread or misunderstood):

1. You have hired Tony Grimani to design the room and spec equipment.

2. You are happy with the design and the the equipment spec, including price of equipment.

3. You got a quote on the construction of the room and it was WAY more than Grimani or your integrator thought it was going to be. You did say the construction cost were 80% of the overage

Now, considering that the price of the Triad packages listed range from $50,000 to more than $100,000, and you are doing a custom design and not a package,I assume that your equipment price is in the 6 figures.

Therefore, the construction price must be way up there too.

Since you already have a room that you want to remodel, you will not be building a foundation, roof, load bearing walls, etc. I am having trouble understanding how remodeling a room, even if you go with a complete room in room construction, could cost so much. I can see that if you have a really large room, and want really fancy wood work and finishes the price can get up there. Add a wet bar, etc, etc etc and even more expense.

What in the design of the room is costing so much, and can that design be simplified so that you have a sound proof and treated room at less expense?