Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems 598 / 568 V2 introduced today

Meridian introduced the 598 and 568 V2 at the Definitive Audio show in Bellevue WA.

Sorry, I did not really get a good feel for the price or when upgrades would start. It sounded like they are going into production now and will ship soon. I had always thought something like this would have been introduced at Cedia, but guess I was wrong. I dislike being wrong, oh well, I guess that means I can be write next time.

The 598 will be available in a few options. You can get it with either analog 5.1 outputs or Smart Link digital outputs. So it looks like those who wanted digital only outputs have gotten their wish. Of course, they still called it 598 instead of 590, but you can always put a sticker over the 8 and make it into a one if that will make you feel better.

From what I could tell the Smart Link on the 568 is a 15-pin connector, much like you would find on your video card.

568 V2 will upsample DD and DTS IF you use with 598 or 800V3.

They had 598->Faroudja DVP5000->Sony G90. They did not show 480p from 598, but it was/is an option.

Because this is a dealer show, they have less material to demo. They played some piece of classic rock. enough with the classic rock, who wants to listen to this old stuff? Bring on Alanis! They also played a cut from the Chesky DVD-A in 4.0 mode. Chesky has 4.0 and 6.0, but 6.0 requires height and 568 does not support the height channel like the 861 does.

I was in the center seat, so the Chesky sounded nice. They played using the DSP5000s MKII, which has the fancy new face plate and it really makes a difference. They also had their digital sub. <Meridian, if you are out there, please take the digital front end of the sub up to the pre-amp (digital in, DAC, volume control), stick it in a box, and sale it to us folks who don't want to have an analog output card in our 861s. >

Across the hall was the new Pioneer DVD-A/SACD with iLink to receiver. (prototypes) They said the production versions were about 6 months away, but that combo sounded nothing like the 598/568 combo. It was missing body. The Pioneer room had Dynaudio speakers including dipole surrounds. I did not dig the dipoles for 5.1 music. They were playing back in THX Ultra2 music mode.

The DV47AI had really nice OSD. Nice transpart graphics.

Pioneer also played some piece of music in DTS Neo:6, not sure what they were thinking as the box also has PL II.

Speaking of PL II, if you have not already, try PLII Movie mode for music. Also try PL Music mode for mono films.



[This message has been edited by sspears (edited 06-27-2002).]

[[[568 V2 will upsample DD and DTS IF you use with 598 or 800V3.]]]

Do you have info to clarify this? Why would this functionality be restricted to Meridian feeds? Do I need to build a black box with a comms connector that tells the network there's an 800 on the line? I don't understand how this can be.

Or will they only upsample on the magic new input? And if so, why?

Confused,
Doody.

I think the reason the upsampling of D.D and dts is limited to to their own gear is that it is decoded in the player (800 v3 ,598 ,and upgraded 596) and then upsampled in the processor ( 861 v3 , upgraded 568 ).
At the moment in 596 you can already decode 2 channel Dolby tracks so there is already some DSP at work.The upgrade will probably add a lot more to enable decoding of the remaining channels.I don't think any other manufacturers use the Smartlink connection ( or similar) which is neccessary to transfer the signal for upsampling. I think it's explained a bit better in the 800 Series Version 3 info. page on their site.
Regards,
Manus

As Manus pointed out, they split the processing load. The DVD players (598 and 800V3) decode the formats into 6 channels and pass that out to the processors (800V3 and 568V2) over 3 SPDIF or the 15-pin and then the processor does upsampling, bass management, and time alignment. Why? Because they have to have DSPs in both, I guess they might as well use up what is in the DVD player. DSP in DVD player is there for MLP decode and most likely MHR. This will free up processing in 861 for more work.

8-channel Trifield upsampling does happen with any source plugged in, but that is just 2-channels.

If you could take another DVD player and either add 3 SPDIF outputs or put their 6-channels of analogs through and A/D and then into 568 with 15-pin, you could get upsampling.

Of course Meridian could always build a box to do this. This would be similar to the IA40 and IA45 cards that do an A/D. This might be useful for those with 568 and have an SACD player.

I think also that 800 V3 has 2 audio chips to 598's 1 enabling it " to provide upsampling and resolution enhancement for all sources including CD and DVD video " according to their Version 3 DVD Audio update page, whereas 598 will decode but not upsample.861 or 568 V2 will then carry out further processing/upsampling.

P.S. 800/861 have both just received rave reviews in UK based HiFi Choice magazine current edition.

Regards,
Manus

I'm less confused, but still confused :-)

So if I have 96/24 speakers all around and an upgraded 568. I can in theory do upsampling everywhere.

However, in practice, if I want to do upsampling everywhere I can ONLY do so with a Meridian source device? Is that the case?

Doody.

With 568 and a 3rd party source, you can upsample all channels for Stereo, Direct, Music, and Trifield. It is like you have it today, except this is for all channels.

If you want to upsample DD or DTS, then you need a Meridian source.

[This message has been edited by sspears (edited 06-27-2002).]

okay, i am no longer confused!

instead i think i'm going to get very angry!

this seems like a blatant F-U. what is the justification for this? clearly it's not a processor constraint since the new processors can do N channel 96/24.

it's clearly not a connectivity constraint since my 568 already takes DD and DTS signals in from any source i care to generate them from. obviously if we were moving around N channels of high bitrate a single digital connection might not suffice - but that's not the case for "regular old" DD or DTS.

anybody have data on this?

doody.

If they passed the bitstream to the 568, then the 586 must use DSP to decode DD/DTS, upsample, time alignment, and bass management. This will require them to waste more of the DSP, which might limit future processing options because 568 only has room for so much DSP. I am suprised they even offered DD/DTS upsample in 568.

By doing what they do, they balance the load. They have a DSP in 598 which must decode MLP, so why not use it to decode DD and DTS, which will then allow them to do even more DSP work in 568 with future updates.

I have not heard anyone complaining on here about 800V3 and the fact that you must use 800 w/ 861 to get DD/DTS upsample.

If you think about it, you are not loosing anything over other processors. No one else does DD or DTS upsampling in their processor.

I bet they could probably decode DD and still do everything in 568, but DTS is such an inefficient mess that it would be too much work. And if DTS 96/24 every ships more than 2 discs, that will require even more DSP. Of course next year I am sure we will see DTS introduce DTS 96/24 ES, and then DTS 96/24 ES Discrete the following year. Perhaps after that we will get DTS DSD.

[This message has been edited by sspears (edited 06-27-2002).]

ss - that's not an entirely unreasonable perspective.

however, assuming they're not taking away any existing 568 functionality, the 568 is still going to have to do most of those other things you mentioned (it already does). so the only argument here is that "there might not be enough processing capacity to upsample all the channels" in addition to the stuff it does today.

if so, then "i thought that was a big part of the whole point of the upgrade - to get the processing capabilities bumped up appropriately" is a reasonable gripe. they have apparently decided NOT to accomplish such a goal.

it really smells like a scam to me to get people to start buying their DVD players (more fuel to the fire that they can't sell 5XX DVD players on their own merits?).

doody.

**** Meridian: If you're reading this, I know I'm not the only one here interested in this issue (for sure). Details are undoubtedly forthcoming from y'all in the form of documents and manuals, but in the interim, some clarification would be appreciated.

[This message has been edited by MrDoody (edited 06-27-2002).]

From reading other sites about other processors, THX Ultra2 is a big step up in DSP requirements. If so, Meridian may need to save DSP room for this, if they plan to support it. Then of course there could be other formats coming along soon. Maybe they even plan to upsample to 192, which will need more DSP. They have been pretty quite about what the future holds so they may have some big stuff coming that we don't have any clues about.

I imagine they plan this DSP upgrade to last many years and are making the most of it.

If you want DVD-A you must buy their processor.

Either way, I understand your gripe. Good thing I did not mention anything else I saw or heard. (Just kidding.)

[This message has been edited by sspears (edited 06-27-2002).]

Stacey,

A question if I might.

I understand that the 568 can't do signal routing ala the 861 however.......

Will the 568 pass all 6 channels of the Chesky 6.0 format unaltered? If so, perhaps an alternative option involving switch boxes could be employed.

Regards,