logo

Google Search  |  Meridian Systems  |  Meridian Streaming  |  Restaurant  |  WiKi  |  Duncan's Meridian Info  |  Board Rules  |  Restaurant Rules
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,492
Senior Shouting Officer
Senior Shouting Officer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,492
Interesting article in Aug issue of HiFi News about the PS Audio PerfectWave (PS Audio) which seems to be a CD transport and DAC combined with lossless audio file replay.

What caught my eye was a comment about the DAC: ‘Two of the five reconstruction filters offered by the Perfectwave DAC (filters 1 and 3) are apodising filters, a relatively new development which stems from work carried out by Peter Craven for Meridian Audio`.

Not sure of the relationship between M and PS Audio.

So, you can get Meridian apodising filters in the PerfectWave DAC but not in a G68?

Cliff


Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, Vero 4k, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 22
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 22
I suspect that apodising filters will become relatively widespread, but as has been the case with so many designs in audio, they need not be created equally. How many of us have found that Meridian spinners sounded better than other spinners, yet it was the same 16/44 source material? I think the wording "....which stems from work carried out..." does suggest that it's not going to be Meridian's solution which is delivered.

Cheers

George

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 338
Hitchhiker
Hitchhiker
Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 338
It is also used in the Ayre silver disc players as well.
M is not doing something very different unless proved otherwise.
There is so much jargon in this area that it is virtually impossible to know if and how many manufacters are using the same filtering technology.


Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,474
Likes: 18
Senior Shouting Officer
Senior Shouting Officer
Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,474
Likes: 18
"Apodizing" technology appears everywhere. I talked with Mikael Bladelius here in sweden who is the designer of the Bladelius products and he also has a Apodising filter in his Embla, but you can select between the different filters in the setup menu. Now he wasn't entirely happy with it compared to his old FIR based filters.



DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8, 210, Sim2 Ultranero 4, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, Dune HD Duo Cinema 8K and Wireworld Platinum 48G HDMI -> UHD722 -> Shunyata Omega Ethernet. Shunyata/Furutech power-cables/filters. SR Master Fuse@861v8. Uptone Etherregen with 10MHz OCXO clock.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,492
Senior Shouting Officer
Senior Shouting Officer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,492
Originally Posted by crion
"Apodizing" technology appears everywhere. I talked with Mikael Bladelius here in sweden who is the designer of the Bladelius products and he also has a Apodising filter in his Embla, but you can select between the different filters in the setup menu. Now he wasn't entirely happy with it compared to his old FIR based filters.

Ageed. The way the article was worded in this case did suggest an M link however (assuming a degree of accuracy in HFN reporting which may be misplaced).

Cliff


Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, Vero 4k, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 338
Hitchhiker
Hitchhiker
Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 338
dCS has given the choice of filters for ages to the users for all their products. Same is true for Wadia.

Peter Craven AES paper is also mentioned in the ayre white paper.
http://www.ayre.com/pdf/Ayre_MP_White_Paper.pdf

May be that's why everyone is using this now. We just expect M to do a better Job at implementing their own Research!

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,606
Great Green Arkleseizure
Great Green Arkleseizure
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,606
Isn't something that is published and/or presented at the AES public domain? If it is, then Craven's work would become public domain.

I suspect that Craven's work describes the characteristics of such filters without giving away the code wink It then becomes an exercise "left to the reader" to build the filters as required in the DSP hardware of choice.

I could be wrong here, it wouldn't be the first time today laugh


Surround Music Fan/Computer Geek/Curmudgeon in training.
---
861v4, HD621, Panasonic BD-P55K, Toshiba HD-A35, Oppo HD990, Dish Network 622, Pioneer DV-668AV-S w/ DVD Upgrades mod, EW Fontaine II (x5), Velodyne DD-15 (x2), Seymour AV Ice blocks (x7)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733
Likes: 88
Don't Panic!
Don't Panic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733
Likes: 88
Peter Craven's work *is* public. His paper describes the concepts of apodizing in conjunction with minimum phase filters. It would still require quite an effort and an understanding of digital audio to properly implement such a filter. As Bob and others have said, there are many trade-offs to be made and there is no such thing as a "perfect" apodizing filter.

I assume that Meridian funded Craven's work and had early access to it.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,814
Likes: 87
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,814
Likes: 87
I was just catching up on some unread emails and found the June PS Audio Newsletter. In it was a short section referencing Bob and Meridian in a very nice way (especially for a competitor).

Originally Posted by PS Audio
Harley`s review of the Meridian CD player
As much as I love our industry and the people in it, I have to say there are only a handful of people and manufacturers that I really admire and look up to. Robert Harley, from TAS, and Bob Stuart, from Meridian, are among those that I really admire and when the two interact, I am doubly interested. Robert Harley I`ve known for years, I don`t think I`ve ever met Bob Stuart, but I certainly have followed Meridian for years and they are my kind of company: technically advanced and game changing.

So, when our customers and beta testers keep asking me to explain just what makes the new PerfectWave DAC sound so good - especially on standard Red Book CD`s - I struggle to explain about the new breed of apodising filters at work. Certainly there are many aspects of the PWD that are standouts, but the type of digital filters in use, known as apodising filters, are truly game changing as is the performance of our DAC. So imagine my surprise when I open up the August issue of the Absolute Sound Magazine (TAS) and here`s an article by one of my favorite technical writers, Robert Harley, explaining how they work, what they do and why they change the game forever for Red Book CD reproduction. Then, following that is an even more interesting interview with Bob Stuart who offers some excellent insights into blind testing, perceptions and how people need time and space with their systems to make good evaluations. Really interesting reading.

Apodising filters solve one of the biggest problems in digital playback, known as pre-ringing. Pre-ringing is a very unnatural event and the ear is apparently quite sensitive to this phenomena. Its importance to what we hear on a digital recording was first brought to our attention through an AES paper written by Dr. Peter Craven in 2005 and the work he and Bob Stuart have done on identifying this problem, the effects it has on what we hear and a special type of filter that not only reduces the phenomena in the DAC, but the CD itself!

This is truly ground breaking work and we`re delighted that we were able to bring the PWD out with the latest generation of filter sets that take advantage of much of their work.

Robert is a far better writer than I, so if you are interested in learning more about how these filters work, what they do to the sound and the cool new Meridian 808.2 Signature Reference CD player, pick up a copy of the August issue of TAS and have at it.

For those of you receiving your new PWD`s soon, there are several versions of apodising filters available to play with through the touch screen. Have fun! What a great learning experience awaits you.

http://www.psaudio.com/ps/newsletters/june-2009-ps-newsletter/


Last edited by ncpl; 2009-07-06 13:14.

Rgds,
Nick


Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,053
Pan-dimensional being
Pan-dimensional being
Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,053
Not to be cynical but I think PS audio's Paul McGowan, who has a rep as one of the industry's "good guys", is a bit better writer than he claims. While favorable to Bob Stuart and M he skillfully equated his product with the M player. If not it's equal it's in the same league is the way I read it. I can't fault his stance from a business viewpoint though.

Ken


Main: G68J, 5K2s, 5Ks, HSU subs, Pio 151FD, Dish VP722, Roku, Wadia I70, Anti Mode Dual Core, Oppo 103D Vanity Lite
Office: SBT, Berkeley Alpha DAC 2/MQA, Magico S3 Mk II, Boulder 2060, Lumin U1 Mini streamer, Roon.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,814
Likes: 87
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,814
Likes: 87
Hi Ken,

Fair comment. From what I read of his player, it may be a justified position for him to take.


Rgds,
Nick


Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,053
Pan-dimensional being
Pan-dimensional being
Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,053
Nick,

I've heard good things about it as well.

Ken


Main: G68J, 5K2s, 5Ks, HSU subs, Pio 151FD, Dish VP722, Roku, Wadia I70, Anti Mode Dual Core, Oppo 103D Vanity Lite
Office: SBT, Berkeley Alpha DAC 2/MQA, Magico S3 Mk II, Boulder 2060, Lumin U1 Mini streamer, Roon.

Moderated by  Carl, Duncs, ncpl 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
5 members (Jocke, rjek, swpnt, TSCA, OldDogCan), 259 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Kiran1103, Tony999, PhilP, Grover, Humberto
5,503 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Gemeni 7
Top Posters
VirusKiller 12,733
ncpl 8,814
Carl 8,505
Fiddler 8,364
Ian 7,950
Forum Statistics
Forums18
Topics31,202
Posts297,166
Members5,503
Most Online4,788
May 22nd, 2026
Meridian  |  Media Centre  |  Support  |  Firmware Release Notes  |  RSS Systems  |  RSS Streaming  |  RSS Restaurant

Website Provided by Mr Tech Guy - Resolute Audio Visual Limited © 2026

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.1
(Release build 20251126)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 8.5.11 Page Time: 0.048s Queries: 39 (0.022s) Memory: 0.8861 MB (Peak: 2.2161 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2026-10-05 14:52:46 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS