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#290490 - 2020-01-15 15:04 Re: 568.2mm No Sound on Select DSP Presets After Firmware Downgrade [Re: swpnt]
Registered: 2019-12-11
Posts: 25
SixSpeed Offline
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Registered: 2019-12-11
Posts: 25
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Originally Posted By swpnt
When you re-flash the 568 with the 2.12 firmware, do you also re-load the TYPES568.MFU file?

I don't think this file is loaded automatically but should restore the types following a firmware change.

It may be worth trying before having to send the unit off for repair.

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

Steve


Hi Steve,

Thanks for reaching out.

Yes after flashing via the .MFP I then manually flash the TYPES568.MFU file and unfortunately it does not make any difference frown

After uploading that file I do a manual reset re-typing (as suggested here) a stock setting, no sound or then uploading my config same thing, no sound.

There has to be something else maybe that needs to be done when doing the downgrade from the Beta 2.5b9/262m to the latest official 2.12/238m or initial 2.0/227m.

I have also tried doing the firmware downgrade manually one by one via the Legacy Configuration Program's internal firmware uploader but it makes no difference. As well as the legacy Floppy Disk's .BAT and Command Prompt flash loading for the 2.0 version. Same thing, successful reflash with no sound.

Another thing I tried was renaming the file names of the 2.12 and 2.0 firmware files once back on 2.5b9 to do the downgrade again to the same name of those in the 2.5B9 firmware with the hope it will overwrite and remove any files from 2.5 that could be left over in the event the 568 is not properly erasing them.

I think the issue lies with the 2.0 and 2.12 DSPC and DSPD files refusing to correctly work with the audio circuitry despite the programs saying they are successfully flashed and all data has been transferred. There are no errors like "BAD EPROM" or "BAD SOFTWARE" display at all. The restoration of the pre 2.5 DSP modes show they are back but they don't make any sound. So I'm thinking there might be a very specific procedure Meridian has not mentioned to restore the 568.2mm from a 861/G68 based DSP to back to its original 500 series DSP configuration.

Or maybe there is special file or command that needs to be done to downgrade a 568.2 that has the 861/G68 format Beta Firmware/DSP back to 2.12 or 2.0. Perhaps like a specific tool/command or procedure to comprehensively clear and erase the EPROM and Chipsets to allow new system files to go into a clean state.



Meridian 568.2mm | HD621 MHR Link | Pioneer UDP-LX500 | Bryston BDA-3/BDP-3/BIT15 | Furman P-1800
McIntosh MC206 | Marantz MA500 | Supra Sword, Audioquest & Wireworld Cables | Sony A8F 65" OLED
Klipsch Heritage 70th Anniversary Klipschorns & 70th Heresys [3/1] | 2x REL T9i via REL Arrow Wireless [.2] | SVS Wireless Transmitter
Edited by SixSpeed; 2020-01-15 15:04.
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#290493 - 2020-01-15 16:02 Re: 568.2mm No Sound on Select DSP Presets After Firmware Downgrade [Re: SixSpeed]
Registered: 2005-05-11
Posts: 96
swpnt Online content
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swpnt Online content
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Registered: 2005-05-11
Posts: 96
Loc: Woking, Surrey, UK
If I get a moment, I'll give it a try on my 568.2mm. It is currently running 2.59b and I have 2.12, so I will see if it experiences similar issues with multi-channel presets.

I'll report back and let you know.

Cheers,

Steve


Main: 861v4 (LPS), 808.3, HD621, DSP6k, DSP5200HC, DSP33, SW1600, MC200,Sky HD, Cambridge Audio BD, C10
Office: 818v3, 800v4, 557, MF MC2s, Mac Mini
Office2: 561, M3, M2500
Spare: 100 Series,200 Series,500 Series, M60, M60C, DSP5k(s), DSP5kC, C15
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#290494 - 2020-01-15 16:55 Re: 568.2mm No Sound on Select DSP Presets After Firmware Downgrade [Re: swpnt]
Registered: 2019-12-11
Posts: 25
SixSpeed Offline
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Registered: 2019-12-11
Posts: 25
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Originally Posted By swpnt
If I get a moment, I'll give it a try on my 568.2mm. It is currently running 2.59b and I have 2.12, so I will see if it experiences similar issues with multi-channel presets.

I'll report back and let you know.

Cheers,

Steve


Thanks Steve, really appreciate that.

Another thing to try immediately after doing the downgrade is first try a calibration. If it generates no pink noise from the speakers after doing the downgrade it will have the same issue as me with all DSP modes making no sound on SPDIF or Analog except the following : Direct, Music, Trifield, Stereo and the MHR 6CH Direct Input.

It's worth noting those 4 sole DSP modes that still work are the only modes that are common to 2.0/2.12 and 2.5. Super Stereo and Ambisonic will probably work for you if you have a 5.1/7.1 speaker config on 2.5, but they don't work for me because after 2.5+ Meridian disabled those 2 modes for 3/1 speaker configurations and due to the nature of my issue the logic of them being disabled in 2.5 carries over when I do the downgrade making them non functional as well. So if you have the same issue as me, you will only get sound on the 4 DSP modes mentioned and sound on Super Stereo and Ambisonic.... but no sound on all other modes.

The last thing I haven't tried (a long shot) is using a different computer to do the downgrade and flash but I doubt that will make any difference, right?


Meridian 568.2mm | HD621 MHR Link | Pioneer UDP-LX500 | Bryston BDA-3/BDP-3/BIT15 | Furman P-1800
McIntosh MC206 | Marantz MA500 | Supra Sword, Audioquest & Wireworld Cables | Sony A8F 65" OLED
Klipsch Heritage 70th Anniversary Klipschorns & 70th Heresys [3/1] | 2x REL T9i via REL Arrow Wireless [.2] | SVS Wireless Transmitter
Edited by SixSpeed; 2020-01-15 16:56.
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#290525 - 2020-01-16 16:17 Re: 568.2mm No Sound on Select DSP Presets After Firmware Downgrade [Re: SixSpeed]
Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,725
Syles Online content
Knows where his towel is
Syles Online content
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,725
Loc: London, UK
I dug out my 568.2mm and booted up my old PC to have a play with firmware swapping.

I had 2.5 on the 568 and wanted to go to 2.12

I tried to just swap the firmware with the Legacy Config programme; this seemed to work, but it still had C00049 & D5004b loaded, so gave intermittent results.

I used the WINFUP programme and loaded up 568_v2.mfp, which loaded the following files to the 568 (along with some prompted hard resets on the way):

568_212.mfu
568mft20.mfu
dspcv20.mfu
dspd5v22.mfu

This worked better, but I had problems with a few presets not playing any sounds (I tried PCM & AC3 sources). For example, I had a 'Mono All' preset that was based on the 'Mono' preset, but with party mode enabled; this wouldn't pass any sound.

I went through the firmware procedure a few more times, up and down and still had the same issues (even on 2.5 now), so I thought I'd just bricked the 568.

In a last attempt, I did the full 2.12 upload and checked again, my 'Mono All' preset wouldn't pass sound, neither would the 'Super' preset. I then tried the basic 'Mono' which worked, used the <> keys on the remote and selected party mode to on and the sound remained. Looking at the Configuration file in the Legacy Config programme, it was only the modified presets that had stopped working...

I started a new 568 configuration with no modifications and uploaded it and now everything is working as expected.

My only conclusion is that you need to do a fresh configuration after the firmware downgrade to clear out any unexpected code etc.

I hope this is of help,

Steve

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#290526 - 2020-01-16 16:39 Re: 568.2mm No Sound on Select DSP Presets After Firmware Downgrade [Re: SixSpeed]
Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,571
Mr Meridian Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Mr Meridian Online content
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Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,571
Loc: Perthshire, Scotland
Originally Posted By SixSpeed
I downgrade the unit, and then upload my configuration file which is correctly formatted for 2.0-2.49 firmware.
Syles' investigations are very interesting here, my gut feeling is also that something is remaining in your config and it's not getting a completely clean slate to work from.

In your comment above, are you reformatting an existing config file (as suggested in the M 2.5b firmware notes), or starting with a completely fresh blank config for your 2.12 firmware?

Cheers
George

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#290530 - 2020-01-16 20:03 Re: 568.2mm No Sound on Select DSP Presets After Firmware Downgrade [Re: Mr Meridian]
Registered: 2019-12-11
Posts: 25
SixSpeed Offline
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Registered: 2019-12-11
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Loc: New Jersey, USA
Hi George,

I have uploaded brand new configs with modifications and exiting configs already made for 2.0-2.49 and neither made a difference. But all had some type of small changes to presets.
I will try reformatting the working 2.5 config and change it to 2.0-2.49 format.

--------------------

Hi Steve,

Very interesting! I knew I wasn't crazy! What's interesting is I have done a basic manual retyping on the units built in feature which should have cleared any previous settings, but did not.
However, it's true my config file is a pre-configured 2.0-2.49 configuration with modifications to Trifield and Super Stereo mode.

I will retype the unit on 2.5b9 to a default setting. Then downgrade to 2.12, then upload a basic new configuration from the Meridian Legacy Config Manager without any changes to the DSP settings.
Previously I had made new configurations but I re-made them from scratch matching my previous config with the 2 minor adjustments to Super and Trifield.

So you ended up going back to 2.5 and then back to 2.12 correct?


Thanks guys, you've been great.
Will report back.


Meridian 568.2mm | HD621 MHR Link | Pioneer UDP-LX500 | Bryston BDA-3/BDP-3/BIT15 | Furman P-1800
McIntosh MC206 | Marantz MA500 | Supra Sword, Audioquest & Wireworld Cables | Sony A8F 65" OLED
Klipsch Heritage 70th Anniversary Klipschorns & 70th Heresys [3/1] | 2x REL T9i via REL Arrow Wireless [.2] | SVS Wireless Transmitter
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#290533 - 2020-01-16 22:04 Re: 568.2mm No Sound on Select DSP Presets After Firmware Downgrade [Re: SixSpeed]
Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,725
Syles Online content
Knows where his towel is
Syles Online content
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,725
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By SixSpeed
So you ended up going back to 2.5 and then back to 2.12 correct?
I went back to 2.5 to check it was still working, I don’t think it’s a necessary step!

I think the steps should be:

A full firmware upload using the 568_v2.mfp via the WINFUP application.
Creating a new 568 set in the legacy config programme and upload to the 568
Edit the set in the config programme to suit once everything is working

All the best and good luck!

Steve

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#290538 - 2020-01-17 00:03 Re: 568.2mm No Sound on Select DSP Presets After Firmware Downgrade [Re: Syles]
Registered: 2019-12-11
Posts: 25
SixSpeed Offline
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Registered: 2019-12-11
Posts: 25
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Hi Steve,

I just went ahead. Flashed the full v2.12 firmware using WINFUP via the v2.12 .mfp file (568_v2.mfp). Flash was successful. I used the newer ones with the .mfq files.

Then I opened the legacy config manager. Hit the blank page icon for a new config and selected the 568 on the drop down list. Not changing a single thing, I uploaded that to the 568.

No sound in Calibration for the Left speaker which immediately tells me it will not work. Will be same issue with all DSP modes not working except the 4 I previously mentioned. Absolutely unreal. cry

I've learned that is the quickest way to verify it worked or not. If the calibration generates pink noise from the speakers, the unit is 100% working. If it doesn't, it has broken audio output issue for all DSP modes except the 4. So far only 2.5b9 works 100% and I have discovered through my previous days of troubleshooting the quickest way to verify is the immediate check of calibration pink noise.

I will now try flashing to v2.0 using the old .BAT command script and then upload another bone stock 568 config from the manager. Fingers crossed it will work.

Will report back. I'm not expecting anything to change. I'm beginning to think my 568 hates me lol.

Just badly want this to work because it would suck to lose 2-3 weeks for a repair which I don't think is necessary because it works perfect in 2.5b9. Hopefully attrition of flashing as you had to do will eventually weed the little software gremlin out of this damn thing and allow me to get back to 100% satisfaction and finally be done with this once and for all once successfully on 2.12.

Worst case if I can't get it going I'll have my wonderful little 565 Z3 to enjoy as a stop-gap if I have no choice but to send it for repair.

Time to spend another hour plus trying to get it fixed. Really hope this does it. tired


Meridian 568.2mm | HD621 MHR Link | Pioneer UDP-LX500 | Bryston BDA-3/BDP-3/BIT15 | Furman P-1800
McIntosh MC206 | Marantz MA500 | Supra Sword, Audioquest & Wireworld Cables | Sony A8F 65" OLED
Klipsch Heritage 70th Anniversary Klipschorns & 70th Heresys [3/1] | 2x REL T9i via REL Arrow Wireless [.2] | SVS Wireless Transmitter
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#290545 - 2020-01-17 20:42 Re: 568.2mm No Sound on Select DSP Presets After Firmware Downgrade [Re: SixSpeed]
Registered: 2019-12-11
Posts: 25
SixSpeed Offline
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SixSpeed Offline
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Registered: 2019-12-11
Posts: 25
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Guys, I'm just totally at a loss here. This makes zero sense.

Spent another 4 hours last night. I have literally tried EVERYTHING. Different methods of loading the firmware, then retyping on the unit itself to a basic setting or afterwards uploading a new config with no DSP modifications. You name it I have tried it. Different combinations of DSPC and DSPD. Running the full firmware package from the MFP, Running them one by one, and even upping one by one in the Legacy Config Tool advanced tab instead of via WinFUP. No success no matter what.

I doubt it's relevant but my 568.2mm is an original 568 that was factory upgraded by Meridian to a 568.2mm in the Summer of 2003. But that was still basically a year away from the 2.5 Beta so it came back from the Factory with 2.12. The previous owner updated it to the 2.5 beta. So for the life of me can't understand why the unit can't restore itself to a fully functioning pre 2.5 beta state and pass sound on all presets and in Calibration.

Also can't understand how any config files are conflicting or left over, I've retyped it to default all analog outputs on the unit after a firmware and it doesn't pass sound. Nor does sending a new config file after finishing a firmware upload either with or without retyping to a basic stock mode first on the unit without any DSP modifications.

What version of the WinFUP tool are you guys using?? Perhaps that makes a difference? What about the Legacy Configuration Program? I am using the latest version of both from the Meridian Setup Installer but have also used legacy 861 and 1024 WinFUP version as well as old .bat Floppy Disk script to load the 2.00 firmware version default and neither makes a difference. Same issue, doesn't pass sound on virtually all modes.

There has to be a way to fix this.

So once again I'm back on 2.5 w/ the C44 861v3 DSPC Mod for working Trifield Width. However this time I created 3 new DSP presets. I created a pseudo Original Pro Logic emulation using the ProLogic On parameter setting for PLII Movie which Meridian says changes it to Original PL 4.0 decoding instead of PLII. Which is what I want for legacy Dolby SR material as well as the THX version of that mode available prior to 2.5 known as "THX". I even gained 96K internal upsampling for it which I didn't have on the 2.00/227m bad condition unit so that's neat I guess.

The third new one I made was a DSP mode I had on the 565 that was scrapped on the 568 by Meridian as its own preset but rather side parameter of Mono mode was the Academy mode. It gives you the re-equalized Mono 1.0 via the Center Speaker with rolled off treble for those old school black and white or 60s/70s mono color films.

So that gets me 95% back to what I wanted to begin with by "downgrading". Sadly, I can't get Super Stereo or Ambisonics back running 2.5b9 since they are disabled by Meridian after 2.5 if you only have 1 Surround speaker like I have in the system I use the 568.2mm with. Annoying because before the 2.5 Beta, the Dolby Stereo style 3/1 speaker arrangement I have was able to run Super Stereo as well as the 565 Z3 6.0. Super Stereo was my favorite mode for YouTube and watching non encoded Stereo video content. So now I have to use Trifield for all of that which isn't too bad as I like Trifield a lot, just prefer to use Super instead for its superior and great sounding surround extraction from non encoded material while maintaining a balanced and full sounding 3 channel stereo front spread. Ambisonic UHJ or B I never really needed as I don't use or have any Ambisonic encoded music or Ambisonic CDs. Super always sounded like a Trifield with more surround enhancement as Trifield is basically more of a 3 Channel Stereo oriented mode with extremely subtle ambient enhancement in the surrounds.

If I can get back on 2.12 or 2.0 I get everything back 100% the way I want it. But through some creativity and studying up the manual I've managed to add/restore 3 extra DSP modes on 2.5 to get me about 95% there by my estimation. It won't be the end of the world now that I have gotten Original Pro Logic back which is a big one for me given my speaker configuration, but my goal remains getting this unit fully working on Firmware 2.12 to get Super, Ambisonics and the native Original Pro Logic modes back.

So it's partly good news from my end but not exactly how I wanted to get there. The Legacy Config program has syntax checks otherwise I could hack the .MSF config file and add Super Stereo as a manual User DSP preset. But when you do this the legacy program refuses to load it. I did however get it to accept a few options not in the GUI for the emulated Original PL mode user preset which I manually edited to match exactly what 2.12 and 2.00's parameters use for it which definitely good! If I can figure out what script .exe it uses to upload the config program perhaps I can point to the .MSF with Super Stereo manually added in to bypass the check in the GUI. In theory it could allow me to get that mode back running version 2.5b9 with a 4.2 channel system.

Anyway curious to hear what version you guys are using for WinFUP, The Legacy Config Program etc.

Thank you again for all your help. I am extremely appreciative of it, you guys have been amazing!


Meridian 568.2mm | HD621 MHR Link | Pioneer UDP-LX500 | Bryston BDA-3/BDP-3/BIT15 | Furman P-1800
McIntosh MC206 | Marantz MA500 | Supra Sword, Audioquest & Wireworld Cables | Sony A8F 65" OLED
Klipsch Heritage 70th Anniversary Klipschorns & 70th Heresys [3/1] | 2x REL T9i via REL Arrow Wireless [.2] | SVS Wireless Transmitter
Edited by SixSpeed; 2020-01-17 20:47.
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#290546 - 2020-01-17 21:10 Re: 568.2mm No Sound on Select DSP Presets After Firmware Downgrade [Re: SixSpeed]
Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,571
Mr Meridian Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Mr Meridian Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,571
Loc: Perthshire, Scotland
Hi Six

Good that you've found some workaround tactics to get part of the way there.

Just a thought, why don't you just configure the 568 as having two surrounds, and just take the signal from either rear channel to drive your single amp/speaker, if it unlocks the DSP mode you want? Can you combine both channels into one with a custom lead?

I'll see if I can get the old firmware and Winfup off the ancient laptop I have, I seem to recall problems liberating files from it previously as it's such an old junker! I have a slightly less old laptop for tending the 861 and DSPs, but I don't think I have the same archive on that.

Cheers

George

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#290549 - 2020-01-17 23:46 Re: 568.2mm No Sound on Select DSP Presets After Firmware Downgrade [Re: Mr Meridian]
Registered: 2019-12-11
Posts: 25
SixSpeed Offline
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SixSpeed Offline
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Registered: 2019-12-11
Posts: 25
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Thanks for that George.

Yes definitely, as I'm sort of already preparing myself that I may have to accept the workarounds I have put in place on 2.5 as the closest I will get short of a full blown professional repair.

But I don't want to give up just yet. Especially since there is nothing wrong with this unit except this glitch, it's perfect besides that which is why I am apprehensive of someone opening it all up.

Regarding your suggestion I definitely gave that some thought, particularly last night when I was carefully and methodically configuring the workarounds I derived to restore the aforementioned important DSP presets for my system. I just really don't want to do any line level mixing after the outputs as it's never ideal. Especially on a Pre-Pro like the 568 which has a very specific internal signal processing.

The beauty of the 565 and more so the 568 is that they can remix, adjust and apply the DSP to the stereo surrounds in discrete lossy/lossless Dolby/DTS/LPCM/SACD 5.1 signal to single center surround of a LCRS config on the fly with perfection.

Nobody but Meridian has ever offered this feature in any other product as far as I know and it's a truly special feature. The Meridian internal processing in a LCRS config ensures those stereo surrounds in discrete lossless or lossy movie sound tracks are correctly folded into a mono center rear with proper phase and amplitude and applying the DSP so that it matches the gain and time alignment of the system configuration.

This is among the many things that makes a Meridian 568.2mm w/ an HD621 stand out from the crowd of even modern day plain jane Surround Pre-Pros which pretty much all use the same off the shelf components and offer the same limited features. All the value to midgrade new ones now with Object Based only chipsets ditched all their legacy fixed 5.1/6.1/7.1 compatibility matrix decoding/processing with Object Based Stereo Upmixing not designed for Matrix Surround and not capable of 5.1-7.1 to LCRS like the Meridian is. Neither did the last ones before the switch to object based offer this. Even fewer offer legacy Lt/Rt to LCRS 4.0 decoding, only Bryston as far as I'm aware with their SP3 processor in Original PL mode but it lacks the ability to configure a LCRS output so it's only really for a minimum of 5.1 and not what I have. The Bryston also lacks the many fabulous 3 Channel Stereo Music modes Meridian offers. The 568.2mm allows me to have the most modern capable possible system in a 3/1.2 speaker layout without any of the Room Correction stuff that I don't like.

I'd hate to give that all up for getting that one last DSP preset out of it that is lost with a LCRS config running 2.5 beta firmware. Losing that superior internal processing for Super Stereo DSP mode in my mind is too much to give up, which is why I want to do it the right way by having the mode properly enabled on 2.00 or 2.12 firmware which supports it. If only I can just get it up and running to do so lol!!

If not I'll have to accept my loss but knowing getting it almost perfect on 2.5 is likely good as I will get anywhere else short of sending the 568.2mm in for a repair that probably won't be cheap!

Looking forward to your results on that old laptop, thanks! As well to the rest of guys that are trying this on your respective 568.2mm units.

Six


Meridian 568.2mm | HD621 MHR Link | Pioneer UDP-LX500 | Bryston BDA-3/BDP-3/BIT15 | Furman P-1800
McIntosh MC206 | Marantz MA500 | Supra Sword, Audioquest & Wireworld Cables | Sony A8F 65" OLED
Klipsch Heritage 70th Anniversary Klipschorns & 70th Heresys [3/1] | 2x REL T9i via REL Arrow Wireless [.2] | SVS Wireless Transmitter
Edited by Carl; 2020-01-18 00:25. Edit Reason: Redundant quotation removed.
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#290557 - 2020-01-18 15:43 Re: 568.2mm No Sound on Select DSP Presets After Firmware Downgrade [Re: SixSpeed]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,860
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,860
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
I wonder if St Edd is around to provide a bit insight into any gotcha's?


Meridian owner since 1992
Prime & PSU, Focal Elear headphones, Roon (ROCK 8Gi5 Nuc), Explorer 1 & 2, F80. 200/203, various Sonos (via Roon).
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