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#289850 - 2019-12-17 22:54 MS600 config
Registered: 2012-09-16
Posts: 529
Huw Offline
Paranoid android
Huw Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-09-16
Posts: 529
Loc: Churt Surrey, UK
I have a question on MS600 configuration which I am using in a different way than hitherto.

I have 2 sets of 5Ks - one 18 bit and the second set 24/96. All these speakers have just been recapped, hence I am testing them with alternative configurations - A and B below.

In config the MS600 has alternative digital output options - 1X, 2X and Direct. My understanding is that for equipment that is not 24/96 comparable one should set at 1x

A. C15 -> MS600 -> 562V -> 565 -> 5K18bit. Using legacy cables ... sound will play only on 1X and Direct.

B. C15 -> MS600 -> 5K 24/96 (using Reviver adaptor from MS600 linked to legacy cable). This was tested on 2X and Direct.

There is distinct improvement in SQ using B, which is rather more than I expected and I am trying to understand why... I believe there is gain difference because the loudness is noticeably higher in B vs A at the same volume settings -at 70, it’s 2.5 - 4 dB , so quite a difference . The sound stage in B is much more enhanced and richer overall, and more bass, ok that in part should be expected, but so much?

I believe my 565 ( v2) is not 24/96 capable and can only deliver 22 bit rate, hence need to set MS 600 to 1X.

Another question, I recall that if speakers are receiving 24/96 an amber indicator should light on the display. I am not seeing that in the 24/96 speakers.

All opinions/ suggestions appreciated please.

Many thanks and apologies for long post,
Regards
Huw


#1 52KSE, 218, Panasonic plasma, Sony Blu Ray, Humax, Yamaha sound bar.
#2 Muso 2 Panasonic TV.
#3 C15, TwinStore,MS600, Teac X1, 562v, 565, 555, 5Ks & 5KHC 18 bit & 24/96, Arcam Solo, Systemdek I920, Ortofon M520, QNAP Roon, Synthèse Floating 2.Thorens TD160 ,Ortofon SL15e, Pioneer DAT
#4 Panasonic 4K, Canton DM75.
#5 F80, MS200, iDock.
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#289851 - 2019-12-17 23:28 Re: MS600 config [Re: Huw]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 8,000
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 8,000
Loc: Central England, UK
Hi Huw,

Personally I prefer the extra detail of the 24bit DSPs compared to the 18bit versions ... but the 18bits do have their own charm (I had a trio for years).

I feel there just too many variables in those two systems to meaningfully comment.
I’d suggest you explore:

#1 just switching the DSP speakers
#2 just switching signal path after the MS600 to the 18bit DSPs
#3 just switching signal path after the MS600 to the 24bit DSPs

DSP x1 vs. x2 rate input indicators... when fed with a x2 signal ...

- DSP5000 24/96 - with a 4 digit 7 segment display ... there is an additional dot on the display.
- DSP5000.2 - 8 digit dot matrix display ... the amber LED is illuminated.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#289853 - 2019-12-18 00:15 Re: MS600 config [Re: Huw]
Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,571
Mr Meridian Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Mr Meridian Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,571
Loc: Perthshire, Scotland
Hi Huw

Having the 562 and 565 in the 18 bit DSP chain will have a hugely greater (negative) impact than any difference between 1x, 2x and 24 vs 18 bit DACs.

My impression was that you are assessing performance difference between the 18 and 24 bit DSPs? If so, give them as level a playing field as possible. It's not the bit depth which catches out the older DSPs, it's the sampling frequency, and they max out at 48kHz signals.

Try running the MS600 directly into those 18 bit models with the legacy cabling (and do the same for the 24 bit DSPs too) and just keep to 1x so that the MS600 doesn't upsample. Be aware that they won't play any native high res material.

Re the 562 and 565, every SPDIF interface adds jitter, so compared to the direct path in set up B, you have added three additional junctions....562 out, 565 in, 565 out. I know from previous experience that the 562 is not a transparent device (you gain the added input flexibility, but at sonic penalty) and the 565 may still have the 3dB processing headroom cut that the 568 models had before firmware removed it for "Direct" mode. That would account for the sound level difference.

Cheers

George

Edited by Mr Meridian; 2019-12-18 00:40. Edit Reason: Added comment on legacy cabling
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#289863 - 2019-12-18 15:46 Re: MS600 config [Re: Mr Meridian]
Registered: 2012-09-16
Posts: 529
Huw Offline
Paranoid android
Huw Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-09-16
Posts: 529
Loc: Churt Surrey, UK
Thanks Carl , thanks George

Good input thanks - working on this.

Notwithstanding all this I remain astonished just how good my old 18bit 5Ks are especially after their recap service work- smoother and sweeter but still analytical.

Best regards
Huw


#1 52KSE, 218, Panasonic plasma, Sony Blu Ray, Humax, Yamaha sound bar.
#2 Muso 2 Panasonic TV.
#3 C15, TwinStore,MS600, Teac X1, 562v, 565, 555, 5Ks & 5KHC 18 bit & 24/96, Arcam Solo, Systemdek I920, Ortofon M520, QNAP Roon, Synthèse Floating 2.Thorens TD160 ,Ortofon SL15e, Pioneer DAT
#4 Panasonic 4K, Canton DM75.
#5 F80, MS200, iDock.
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