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#289520 - 2019-12-03 21:35 Using HD621 to 861 for audio processing only in a 4K setup
Registered: 2012-07-15
Posts: 47
regeli Offline
Mostly harmless
regeli Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-07-15
Posts: 47
Loc: Norway
Long time since active here, but always a nice place to keep me updated and finding most answers I'm looking for wink
But, there is something I need to ask the "Elite Meridian Audio" people here about.

My friend just bought a 4k 77" OLED TV and I can see some limits already in his setup.
The setup contains a full Meridian 7.1 system with 861v6 and HD621.
Today, all sources is via the HD621 before picture shows on the 1080P TV.

With the new OLED TV, the set top box 4k and Apple TV 4k need to be wired directly to the OLED TV for enjoy 4k resolution.
The HD621 does not support eARC/ARC, so using this for transferring audio back to the HD621 is a no go. Even HD722 does not support eARC...

What I thought, I could use a 4k 1 to 2 splitter, one output to TV and another one to the HD621 for getting surround to the 861.
The Marmitek Split 312 UHD ( Link ) seems to be a good alternative.
If I dont "lock" the EDID for 4k resolution, I assume it will downgrade the picture on both outputs to 1080P and not an option here.

My question is, how will the HD621 react with a 4k input and receiving DTS-HD Master Audio at the same time?

Basically, I hoped to use the HD621 as a sound distributor to 861 only with the new TV.
Picture from HD621 I don't need, but the sound is important if the HD621 will process it or not for sending it to 861 via MMHR for the 7.1 surround format.
Using optical from OLED TV to 861 is a no go as well, since will not get 7.1 DTS-HD MA and other high resolution sound formats due to limited bandwith.
Another option is to buy an HD722 offcourse, but that's another 2000£ frown




818v2, DSP8000.2, MC200v1, Oppo BDP-103D+Vanity103 HD
Edited by regeli; 2019-12-03 21:43.
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#289521 - 2019-12-03 22:50 Re: Using HD621 to 861 for audio processing only in a 4K setup [Re: regeli]
Registered: 2009-11-20
Posts: 145
OldDogCan Offline
Hitchhiker
OldDogCan Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-11-20
Posts: 145
Loc: New Mexico, USA
My solution for using a 4k projector with HD621 surround sound is to split the 4k output of my compatible UHD disc player with one HDMI signal going directly to projector input #1 and the other to a HDMI switch.

This Oppo player has a separate HDMI audio output for the HD621.

Then I use the switch to add other 4k/UHD sources, such as Apple TV (which do not output TrueHD or DTS-HD), with an audio extractor after the switch in the chain to feed projector input #2. The extractor supplies SPDIF into a coax input on my surround processor, while the HD621 connects to its (discrete) multichannel input.


ODC

Theater: C61R, DSP5200SEs,420s,33s, 218, HD621, NHT amp/subs, DigiOne, OPPO 203, JVC RS500, Fire,Apple,DirecTVs, Mac Pro 2010+, MF V-LINK II, iFI, AQ, Shunyata & Uptone

Living: 568.2mm, DSP5000.2s, OPPO BDP83, 598DP, Allo Signature. Personal: USBridge, Explorer², iFi iDSD BL, Audeze LCD-X. Also: 565, audioengine spkrs, M&K subs, Apple MBP
Edited by OldDogCan; 2019-12-04 02:57.
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#289522 - 2019-12-04 02:06 Re: Using HD621 to 861 for audio processing only in a 4K setup [Re: regeli]
Registered: 2018-11-06
Posts: 194
JamieB Offline
Hitchhiker
JamieB Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2018-11-06
Posts: 194
Loc: Seattle, USA
The HD621 can do 4k@30 but not 4K HDR, which the OLED TV definitely does. So you need a device to send the full 4K to the TV while sending a reduced resolution to the HD621. An Oppo 203 can do that, but they are ~$700 on eBay: it has an HDMI Input as well as an output. My Roku Ultra is connected to the input of the Oppo. Another option is a device like an HDFury, but I tried this and eventually sent it back. However, to be fair, I was trying it with 4k@60 HDR. It may well have worked with 4K@24 or 4K@30. I might give their 4K Vertex2 a try. I think the fury just got too hot. I'm also seriously considering just getting a 722, but I'm concerned about it working with the playstation. The bits that handle video aren't made by Meridian.

Audio formats are important. Neither the HD621 nor 722 will decode bitstream audio like TrueHD: the source must convert that to PCM. My understanding is that the Apple TV 4k can be told to do that. My Roku Ultra cannot. Would be surprised if your set-top box did. This is where the Oppo 203 comes in: it will decode bitstream signals into PCM. If you use one of the audio extractor ODC references above, you will get, at best, 1.5Mb/s 5.1 DTS, instead of the ~18Mb/s original signal.


Cave: 861v8; UHD722; Oppo 203 Vanity HD; 4xDSP5ks, DSP5kC; Sony Z9D, PS4 Pro; Roku Ultra 2017
Living: Amazon Echo Link; HiFiBerry; 2xDSP5ks
Nest: Bluesound Power NODE; 2x Mission 700s
Kitchen: Bluesound Flex stereo pair / Amazon Echo Studio
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#289524 - 2019-12-04 03:15 Re: Using HD621 to 861 for audio processing only in a 4K setup [Re: JamieB]
Registered: 2009-11-20
Posts: 145
OldDogCan Offline
Hitchhiker
OldDogCan Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-11-20
Posts: 145
Loc: New Mexico, USA
Hi JamieB,

Our Oppo 203s can deliver TrueHD and DTS-HD through the HD621; but I didn't know that any of my other sources (connected to the switch) could do hires surround as well. So I settle for what the extractor can deliver over SPDIF.

How can we get more audio resolution from Apple TV 4K? Their specs only say:

HE-AAC (V1), AAC (up to 320 Kbps), protected AAC (from iTunes Store), MP3 (up to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Apple Lossless, FLAC, AIFF, and WAV; AC-3 (Dolby Digital 5.1), E-AC-3 (Dolby Digital Plus 7.1 surround sound), and Dolby Atmos

If there is a way, I guess that I could connect the Apple HDMI out to the input of the 203.


ODC

Theater: C61R, DSP5200SEs,420s,33s, 218, HD621, NHT amp/subs, DigiOne, OPPO 203, JVC RS500, Fire,Apple,DirecTVs, Mac Pro 2010+, MF V-LINK II, iFI, AQ, Shunyata & Uptone

Living: 568.2mm, DSP5000.2s, OPPO BDP83, 598DP, Allo Signature. Personal: USBridge, Explorer², iFi iDSD BL, Audeze LCD-X. Also: 565, audioengine spkrs, M&K subs, Apple MBP
Edited by OldDogCan; 2019-12-04 03:23.
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#289540 - 2019-12-04 14:59 Re: Using HD621 to 861 for audio processing only in a 4K setup [Re: regeli]
Registered: 2012-07-15
Posts: 47
regeli Offline
Mostly harmless
regeli Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-07-15
Posts: 47
Loc: Norway
Thanks for the response.

Late last night I googled a bit and what I need is a HDMI splitter with scaling option.
I found a interested product that can send passthrough 4k signal on one output and 1080P out on the other output to the HD621. It will process the lossless formats on each output at the same time.

CYP SY-4KS-4K22

I will do some more research about this device later wink


818v2, DSP8000.2, MC200v1, Oppo BDP-103D+Vanity103 HD
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#289544 - 2019-12-04 18:34 Re: Using HD621 to 861 for audio processing only in a 4K setup [Re: OldDogCan]
Registered: 2018-11-06
Posts: 194
JamieB Offline
Hitchhiker
JamieB Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2018-11-06
Posts: 194
Loc: Seattle, USA
Originally Posted By OldDogCan
How can we get more audio resolution from Apple TV 4K?
I read it somewhere (maybe even on here). I don't have an Apple TV, so this is all hearsay. I found a page that mentions it tho: page about apple tv 4k:

Quote:
This is perfectly normal, and is because the Apple TV models 4 and 4K decode the Dolby Digital signal on board the Apple TV itself and then sends raw PCM format audio downstream to the receiver.
The big problem with these devices is that if you can't get them to output PCM, then we are left with 5.1 DTS at best, and more often 5.1 DD, which is only 640kb/s. Now, non of the streaming services are doing TrueHD, but most of them at least do DD+. Note that when Netflix says "Atmos", it's not "Atmos on TrueHD" like a blu-ray would have: it's "Atmos on DD+". We don't get high bitrate streams from the internet, unfortunately. Still, DD+ is better than DD, as long as your source can decode it, or you have an Oppo in between.

Before I had the 861, I was using my Oppo as the processor, and I had all my devices plugged into a 4K switch that output to the HDMI-In of the Oppo. So I'm pretty sure that you could plug your Apple TV into the Oppo.

However, my bad luck with devices like the HDFury are primarily because I've been trying to push my PS4 Pro through them, doing 4K@60Hz HDR. When I dropped the signal to 4K@60 non-HDR, they worked fine. So if your device is "just" doing movies, then one of those should be fine.


Cave: 861v8; UHD722; Oppo 203 Vanity HD; 4xDSP5ks, DSP5kC; Sony Z9D, PS4 Pro; Roku Ultra 2017
Living: Amazon Echo Link; HiFiBerry; 2xDSP5ks
Nest: Bluesound Power NODE; 2x Mission 700s
Kitchen: Bluesound Flex stereo pair / Amazon Echo Studio
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#289547 - 2019-12-04 21:53 Re: Using HD621 to 861 for audio processing only in a 4K setup [Re: regeli]
Registered: 2012-07-15
Posts: 47
regeli Offline
Mostly harmless
regeli Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-07-15
Posts: 47
Loc: Norway
Been reading about the HDfury Vertex2 and see Amazon.com sell it for 399USD + can deliver to Norway for the same price as the one I mentioned earlier.

HDfury Vertex2

Quote:

It is a new version of the famed HDFury Vertex with the following features (brief overview - not all encompassing):


1. 4×2 Matrix/Splitter/Scaler for 4K HDR/DV 18Gbps/600MHz + Full HDMI Audio out (extract HDMI/ARC/eARC).

o 4x HDMI 2.0 inputs
o 2x HDMI 2.0 video outputs (w/ scaling options) AND
o 1x dedicated HDMI full audio output (user selectable 720p or 1080p)

2. All inputs capable of 4K HDR/HLG/DV/LLDV/HDR10+ up to 18Gbps

3. Vertex² is also capable of extracting full audio from any TV ARC or eARC (HDMI2.1) up to Atmos High Bit Rate over True HD and forward it via 720p/1080p HDMI to ANY capable AVR input

4. Process two 18Gbps signals at the same time from 2 sources to 2 sinks devices and have one of the channel duplicated and converted in res/hdcp/chroma/color depth/color space/etc. to 1080p + a third output with HDMI audio out

5. HDMI TX0 and TX1 video outputs are capable of outputting 18Gbps as well as all sound formats

6. Greater memory that original Vertex

7. Auto-switch any source

8. Unlike the original Vertex, you can setup and manage the Vertex² via a webserver from any computer/mobile or web browser based device

9. LAN Control, RS232, L/R stereo or Optical 5.1 output, IR RX, IR sensor, IR window, OLED display and 4 buttons on the side allowing to enter/exit and perform change in the device system menu

10. Exact signal timing report with up to 3 digits decimals accuracy on frame rate

11. Vertex² is now capable of sending any custom RS232 commands to any RS232 capable display based on incoming signal types or particular metadata value

12. Provides a total of 15 HDCP 1.4 and 2.2 engines for decryption/encryption

13. Capable of connecting any HDCP1.x or HDCP2.x source devices to any HDCP1.x or HDCP 2.x sink devices

14. Display HDCP 2.2 Content with Non-HDCP2.2 Compliant Devices

15. Vertex2 is capable of physically disconnecting/reconnecting device at output via software, designed to save all standby mode issues some/most Android TVs have (e.g like Sony)


One dedicated HDMI port for audio output is like music in my ears.
Basically, I can use this as my new HDMI switch and HD621 for audio transport only.

When it comes to Apple TV and it's 4k content, picture wise it's pretty good, but when I put in a 4k Bluray disc, no streaming can beat it.
My friend still using the Oppo BDP-93, but guess after an 4k movie after borrowing my Pioneer UDP-LX500, guess he will get one pretty soon.


818v2, DSP8000.2, MC200v1, Oppo BDP-103D+Vanity103 HD
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#289549 - 2019-12-05 17:10 Re: Using HD621 to 861 for audio processing only in a 4K setup [Re: regeli]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,403
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,403
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Probably easier in the long run to get a UHD722 in a true 4K setup. Might have less intricacies and things that makes you go hmmm...


Future 861 MQA/24-192 system upgrade owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8, 210, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, Apple-TV 4K with Infuse 6 and Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> UHD722 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata/Furutech power-cables/filters. SR Orange Fuse@861v8.
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#289558 - 2019-12-05 18:21 Re: Using HD621 to 861 for audio processing only in a 4K setup [Re: regeli]
Registered: 2012-07-15
Posts: 47
regeli Offline
Mostly harmless
regeli Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-07-15
Posts: 47
Loc: Norway
Yes, the UHD722 I considered off course, but for the setup we are going for, he want to watch TV news on the Set-Top box without the Meridian system powered on as well wink
So in the end, we are ending up with some kind of HDMI splitting & scaling anyway...

The Vertex2 will save us for some cabling, look more future proof than an UHD722 in my eyes and acceptable price.
Vertex2 can be easily updated/configured from web browser and eARC support (not needed in our setup) as well
Will see how it goes, will test this Vertex2 during Christmas holiday and will revert back to you guys how it goes grin


818v2, DSP8000.2, MC200v1, Oppo BDP-103D+Vanity103 HD
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#289559 - 2019-12-05 19:15 Re: Using HD621 to 861 for audio processing only in a 4K setup [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2018-11-06
Posts: 194
JamieB Offline
Hitchhiker
JamieB Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2018-11-06
Posts: 194
Loc: Seattle, USA
Originally Posted By Crion
Probably easier in the long run to get a UHD722 in a true 4K setup. Might have less intricacies and things that makes you go hmmm...
There was an 8K TV for $5000 last Friday.

Some point soon Meridian is going to have to replace the UHD722 with something that does 8K. At that time, I expect the price of a UHD722 to drop to the price of a HD621, i.e. $300 on eBay... That's what I keep telling myself anyway!


Cave: 861v8; UHD722; Oppo 203 Vanity HD; 4xDSP5ks, DSP5kC; Sony Z9D, PS4 Pro; Roku Ultra 2017
Living: Amazon Echo Link; HiFiBerry; 2xDSP5ks
Nest: Bluesound Power NODE; 2x Mission 700s
Kitchen: Bluesound Flex stereo pair / Amazon Echo Studio
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#289563 - 2019-12-06 05:01 Re: Using HD621 to 861 for audio processing only in a 4K setup [Re: JamieB]
Registered: 2002-09-24
Posts: 296
JOE-C Offline
Hitchhiker
JOE-C Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2002-09-24
Posts: 296
Loc: California, USA
Even though they may start coming out with 8K TVs I think to have it be of any benefit there will need to be 8K sources. At present 4K UHD Blu-ray is quite amazing and streaming 4K still doesn’t quite live up to it. I think it will be quite some time before you see any 8K source material and as physical media is on the down slide I’m not sure you will ever see 8K Blu-ray. That means it will have to be streamed which will probably require higher bandwidth etc. so IMHO it will be a long while.

Besides that to really see a difference between 4K and 8K that is beneficial you would need to sit much closer to your TV or have a much larger one.
All that said I think you are pretty safe in getting a M UHD722 as it should give you a few good years of service.


My gear: Trinnov Alt 32 (8-16), 271, 8000.1(SEs), 7200.1 HC (SE), 320s, 3200s, SW5500 subs, Seaton F18 sub, MS200 (2nd zone), 218, 210.
Other: JVC RS-4500 projector, Lumagen Pro Radiance, Panamorph DCR anamorphic lens, Panasonic UB900, Oppo BDP-203, QNAP TS-251 (M core and store).
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#290551 - 2020-01-18 08:12 Re: Using HD621 to 861 for audio processing only in a 4K setup [Re: regeli]
Registered: 2012-07-15
Posts: 47
regeli Offline
Mostly harmless
regeli Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-07-15
Posts: 47
Loc: Norway
Almost forgot to reply back how it went with the Vertex2 smile

Was struggling a bit to get the Dolby Vision output correctly to the Sony TV, but was sorted by some parameter settings on the Vertex2.

For the audio part, I've connected the AUDIO OUT from the Vertex2 direct to one of the HD621 inputs without any issues.

I can play MCH High Res. and etc. without any hiccups. BD movies that are Dolby Atmos I've tested with so far also have a 7.1 or 5.1 soundtrack in additional.

So far, I must say the Vertex2 is fantastic, but for the setup, I recommend it to mid-range AV enthusiasts with some knowledge wink


818v2, DSP8000.2, MC200v1, Oppo BDP-103D+Vanity103 HD
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