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#283680 - 2019-03-14 21:19 Re: Meridian freeze development of Sooloos platform [Re: NavSWEDEN]
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 454
Akimo Offline
Paranoid android
Akimo Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 454
Loc: San Jose, California, USA
NavSweden,
Originally Posted By NavSWEDEN
I guess the simplest way forward is to keep an old iPad as controller (making sure not to update iOS) and if needs must I understand the MD600 can be used as a storage device for Roon.
Please be aware that by doing this, you will not be getting any security updates on your iPad. Even if you only use it for Sooloos, this still leaves your iPad, and (without the greatest of care) even your whole home network vulnerable.


Living room: 818v3, Audio Research VS 110, Maggie 1.6, REL sub
A/V room: 861v8, DSP7200SE L/R/C, 4x DSP320 surrounds, ID41 + Roon, UHD722, Prime+PS
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#283681 - 2019-03-14 21:49 Re: Meridian freeze development of Sooloos platform [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,480
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,480
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
Maybe better to have an isolated network for Sooloos if you're going to keep with it.


Main: G61 SL, 218 HD621, 2* 7200SE, 5200HC, DSW,3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 5200s, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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#283682 - 2019-03-14 22:28 Re: Meridian freeze development of Sooloos platform [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 2,218
3dit0r Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
3dit0r Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 2,218
Loc: South UK
This sounds like a good idea, if you can afford to purpose the relevant hardware only for Sooloos use (iPad, router, switch, etc.).

You would, I guess, run something like dBPoweamp to rip CDs on a totally separate PC and then disconnect that from the internet before dragging files across? That would be the machine you’d have to keep 100% secure?


818v3, DSP7200.2, HD621, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Room Treatments
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#283684 - 2019-03-14 22:57 Re: Meridian freeze development of Sooloos platform [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2016-06-18
Posts: 126
Mel_Moon Offline
Hitchhiker
Mel_Moon Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2016-06-18
Posts: 126
Loc: GA, USA
If the iPad is used for the sole purpose of Sooloos, how does it make a network vulnerable? If it never surfs the web what can possibly infect it? As the above poster mentioned, Sooloos can be run on a sequestered network with no internet access. Migrating to Roon is not expensive if you want a system with constant updates. If your choice is to remain with Sooloos, there will be some necessities.


Trinnov Alt32, 271, 808v6, DSP5200SE, DSP7200.2HC, M6, QNAP TS451, 218 various other bits.
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#283685 - 2019-03-15 01:18 Re: Meridian freeze development of Sooloos platform [Re: Mel_Moon]
Registered: 2016-06-05
Posts: 163
Koputai Offline
Hitchhiker
Koputai Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2016-06-05
Posts: 163
Loc: Collaroy Plateau, NSW, Austral...
This is a real bummer for those of us that like the simple but very functional user interface of the Control:10, Control:15, and the iPad Sooloos app.

I've recently given Roon a try as I expected this would eventually happen, and I just can't get used to the complexity of the Roon user interface. I don't want or need all of that extra clutter on the screen when going through my library or Tidal, and I really like that after 30 seconds the Control:10 simply shows the album cover of what is playing.

Perhaps the Roon developers might consider a simpler user interface in the vein of Sooloos. I'd happily go Roon if that was the case.

Cheers,
Jason.


Lounge: Control:10, MS200, G68D, AC11, DSP5200SL (L-HC-R), DSW, HD621, QNAP, Michell Tecnodec.

Storage: DSP5000HC, DSP3100HC x2, DSP3300, G98, G56, G68ADV, 504, 562v1, 562v2, 568, 598, AC11, and enough spare parts to sink a battleship.
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#283686 - 2019-03-15 02:13 Re: Meridian freeze development of Sooloos platform [Re: Koputai]
Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 173
Carlton9000 Offline
Hitchhiker
Carlton9000 Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 173
Loc: Olive Branch, MS, USA
After finally finding a solution that I really like, I get this which is not that. Tried Roon, AppleTV and Squeezebox. None of them gave me the pleasure of the Sooloos setup. Hopefully somebody can come up with a solution. I am only streaming Tidal and find the ease of use with Sooloos as it is designed for the core audio listener.


Theater01: ATV4, UHD722, 861v4+ID40, (5)DSP6K, C-10

Great 02: 861v4+ID40, 800v4, (5)DSP5K, (2)xD2.5, C-10

Dining03: MS200, DSP5.5k(18/48)

Bed04: MS200, DSP6K(18/48) C-10

Kitchen05: MS200, DSP33

Living06: DSP5K(18/48)

Prince07: MS200, DSP33

Ensemble/AMX-ALR-AMP-8: Bath(z1), Garage(z2), Patio(z3)
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#283687 - 2019-03-15 02:59 Re: Meridian freeze development of Sooloos platform [Re: Mel_Moon]
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 454
Akimo Offline
Paranoid android
Akimo Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 454
Loc: San Jose, California, USA
Originally Posted By Mel_Moon
If the iPad is used for the sole purpose of Sooloos, how does it make a network vulnerable? If it never surfs the web what can possibly infect it? As the above poster mentioned, Sooloos can be run on a sequestered network with no internet access. Migrating to Roon is not expensive if you want a system with constant updates. If your choice is to remain with Sooloos, there will be some necessities.
A fair question!

As it turns out, if you watch processes running on your computer equipment, you'll find that lots and lots of background things (both OS and third party) occasionally make a connection. It's not impossible to prevent this, but it requires more sophistication than Meridian should ask of their customers.

As a small example of what you'd have to do, you'd want to start with your gateway/router, and ban the iPad in question. This is not complex, but requires admin-level configuration of the gateway; not something most people are comfortable, or should be doing. If you don't get this right, at a minimum, you'd want to make sure that you disable all the Apple check-ins (icloud, diagnostic feedback, etc.), but even that wouldn't do it, because while you can prevent the system notifying you when updates are available, you can't easily (i.e. through user-accessible settings) tell the iPad to not periodically check for updates. You'd also have to remove all third party apps as many of them are network leaky.

On the Android side, things are far more leaky, and we've seen that the OS sometimes ignores data gathering settings, or makes their configuration misleading.

The bottom line is that it's more hassle and technical savvy than Meridian can responsibly burden their customers with. If this was evaluated (as it should have been by Meridian) on the CVSS system (the industry standard for assessing security risks), it would be a security nightmare. Meridian should have taken responsibility for the security problems they are 100% creating for their customers by, at minimum, helping them get to another service (like, but not limited to Roon). I'm usually sympathetic to tech companies, and am certainly a fan of Meridian, but when a company blindly compromises your security, I find it inexcusable. Full stop. They either didn't think this through, or only cared about getting themselves out of the Sooloos development burden without considering impact on their customers.

For me, this is another reason to give extra consideration before any future Meridian purchases. I can't count on them looking out for their customers best interests. I really hate coming to this view.


Living room: 818v3, Audio Research VS 110, Maggie 1.6, REL sub
A/V room: 861v8, DSP7200SE L/R/C, 4x DSP320 surrounds, ID41 + Roon, UHD722, Prime+PS
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#283694 - 2019-03-15 08:41 Re: Meridian freeze development of Sooloos platform [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,743
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,743
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
On many devices, including iOS, you can prevent >99% of internet access by setting up as manual IP address on the device and not specifying a gateway or router, ie leaving that field blank. Dead easy.

This still gives full access to LAN, ie Sooloos

You can do this ad-hoc with a Sooloos/Roon core device if you want metadata or Internet radio. Most Sooloos core devices are pretty much locked down Internet wise, so probably safe to leave as is if you want metadata or radio. I'm not sure about qnap based cores.


Meridian owner since 1992
Prime & PSU, Focal Elear headphones, roon (ROCK 8Gi5 Nuc), Explorer 1 & 2, F80. 200/203, MC200 and various Sonos.

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#283697 - 2019-03-15 09:39 Re: Meridian freeze development of Sooloos platform [Re: Koputai]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 2,218
3dit0r Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
3dit0r Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 2,218
Loc: South UK
Originally Posted By Koputai
This is a real bummer for those of us that like the simple but very functional user interface of the Control:10, Control:15, and the iPad Sooloos app.

I've recently given Roon a try as I expected this would eventually happen, and I just can't get used to the complexity of the Roon user interface. I don't want or need all of that extra clutter on the screen when going through my library or Tidal, and I really like that after 30 seconds the Control:10 simply shows the album cover of what is playing.

Perhaps the Roon developers might consider a simpler user interface in the vein of Sooloos. I'd happily go Roon if that was the case.
I found that Roon’s interface became seemingly more complex after the 1.6 update and that’s when it started trying to show a large picture of the Artist instead of the album cover. I haven’t had time to see if you can change this behaviour.

What I will say is, unlike with Sooloos, the Roon devs are very responsive and development is rapid, so if you suggest a feature (e.g. in this case perhaps a toggle switch for advanced/simple interface, or artist/album cover while playing) I expect it will actually appear in due course.


818v3, DSP7200.2, HD621, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Room Treatments
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#283701 - 2019-03-15 10:37 Re: Meridian freeze development of Sooloos platform [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2016-06-18
Posts: 126
Mel_Moon Offline
Hitchhiker
Mel_Moon Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2016-06-18
Posts: 126
Loc: GA, USA
Ok, fair explanation. However, the last Sooloos update was a couple years ago and we have so far heard of zero hacker attacks on the 200 or so Sooloos users who have not switched to Roon or another platform. Personally I used an original model iPad the whole time I was using Sooloos and continue to use it for other things around the house such as the Crestron multi room audio system.

We have had no security issues and it has been many years since the last iOS update on it. Frankly I would be more concerned with the plethora of 99 dollar streaming widgets found in most homes. As for cost, it is ironic that people with 50 grand or more tied up in audio gear get all wadded up about the cost of a dedicated iPad or wifi router for the Sooloos system.


Trinnov Alt32, 271, 808v6, DSP5200SE, DSP7200.2HC, M6, QNAP TS451, 218 various other bits.
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#283706 - 2019-03-15 13:11 Re: Meridian freeze development of Sooloos platform [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 454
Akimo Offline
Paranoid android
Akimo Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 454
Loc: San Jose, California, USA
Ian,
Your approach is indeed easy for someone of your sophistication (and for many others on this board), but for most folks out there, it's not something they would even know how to think about. I Managed Customer/Technical support for several silicon valley companies, and it's really easy to overestimate consumer's comprehension of the tech they use daily.

Without a warning that security is an issue, and that there are viable approaches, M is leaving the majority of their customer base in the wind. Not knowing that they will be vulnerable, and not knowing what to do if they become aware of it.

Sorry if I sound like a broken record (with scratches a-plenty), but I feel hyper-strongly that tech companies need to care for their customers in terms of security, privacy and reliability. It's hard work to do well, but not optional from my point of view.

I'll bugger off and smash my megaphone at this point.


Living room: 818v3, Audio Research VS 110, Maggie 1.6, REL sub
A/V room: 861v8, DSP7200SE L/R/C, 4x DSP320 surrounds, ID41 + Roon, UHD722, Prime+PS
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#283709 - 2019-03-15 14:24 Re: Meridian freeze development of Sooloos platform [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,505
VirusKiller Online content
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Online content
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,505
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By 3dit0r
after the 1.6 update and that’s when it started trying to show a large picture of the Artist instead of the album cover. I haven’t had time to see if you can change this behaviour.
Yes you can. Removal of the album cover view was an oversight and we've added it back. The default "Now Playing" mode is configurable and mine happens to be... the album cover.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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