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#282642 - 2019-02-09 17:56 MQA via 861v8 and 218 - a theoretical question
Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,819
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,819
Loc: North London, United Kingdom
Thinking this through I have come up with the following hypothesis and am interested if anyone can find a flaw in it:

(1) The 861v8 is not MQA aware so cannot recognise any MQA-encoded material streamed to it via the ID41 card network inputs, nor perform the first unfold.

(2) A 218 does recognise MQA material streamed over the network and so can unfold it and can output that first unfold via its SPDIF or SpeakerLink connections.

(3) So an 861v8 fed by a 218 would receive first unfolded MQA via SPDIF or SpeakerLink.

(4) Thus the 218/861v8 combination would actually handle MQA "better" than an 861v8/ID41?

and as a coda:

(5) The same argument should hold for any version of 861 or even G-series?

(6) And any 861vX/G6X feeding non-SE DSPs would (subject to the effects of any DSP such as Trifield) still pass first unfold on to DSP speakers, which could not do second unfold (rendering) anyway?


"Wonderful perfect quadraphonic sound with distortion levels so low as to make a brave man weep" - Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz of the Galactic Hyperspace Planning Council
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#282643 - 2019-02-09 18:29 Re: MQA via 861v8 and 218 - a theoretical question [Re: Gianni]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,874
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,874
Loc: Central England, UK
Originally Posted By Gianni
(4) Thus the 218/861v8 combination would actually handle MQA "better" than an 861v8/ID41?
Agreed assuming a Sooloos source, however, using Roon (which can also perform MQA decoding) to feed the ID41 might tip the balance back to the 861 as it avoids the SPDIF interface.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#282645 - 2019-02-09 19:59 Re: MQA via 861v8 and 218 - a theoretical question [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,454
Mr Meridian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Mr Meridian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,454
Loc: Perthshire, Scotland
Even with older kit, I've found Roon (1st) unfolded MQA sent to an 861v4/ID40 and then to non-SE DSPs sounds very good indeed.

Cheers

George

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#282680 - 2019-02-11 11:35 Re: MQA via 861v8 and 218 - a theoretical question [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 2,121
3dit0r Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
3dit0r Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 2,121
Loc: South UK
Originally Posted By Carl
Originally Posted By Gianni
(4) Thus the 218/861v8 combination would actually handle MQA "better" than an 861v8/ID41?
Agreed assuming a Sooloos source, however, using Roon (which can also perform MQA decoding) to feed the ID41 might tip the balance back to the 861 as it avoids the SPDIF interface.
I agree. Since I've had an 861v8 for a while, I've been letting Roon do the 1st MQA unfold and streaming to the ID41. The 861v8 sounds very good with MQA delivered this way, or 'true' hi-res sources. To my ears, it's red-book-res sources where the MQA capable endpoints (818v3/808.6) best it more significantly.

OTOH, I found that the 818v3 hardware first unfold and whatever it then did to give non-SE speakers the best it could from an MQA stream was better than Roon handling the first unfold, so I wouldn't be 100% sure a 218 wouldn't be slightly better doing it in hardware? Very hard to say without trying it.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#282686 - 2019-02-11 13:23 Re: MQA via 861v8 and 218 - a theoretical question [Re: Gianni]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,663
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,663
Loc: Austria, Europe
My audio/music chain:

218 --SL--> 861v6, then through the Trinnov Amethyst to the legacy DSP8k.

So I can choose to stream from:

- 218 with Roon or HW MQA #1 unfold
or
- 861/ID40
or
- Trinnov

For me there is maybe a slight sound difference between the 861/ID40 and the 218, the 218 sounds very slightly more live, the 861 (maybe) more sweet.

I hear no real difference with 218 MQA unfold, even would prefer the SW from Roon.
Advantage is with the 861 in the chain that you can choose between pure stereo or DSP presets.


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#282692 - 2019-02-11 15:46 Re: MQA via 861v8 and 218 - a theoretical question [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,454
Mr Meridian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Mr Meridian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,454
Loc: Perthshire, Scotland
Hi Robert

It strikes me that there are a lot of interfaces in there between the source and the 8ks. Have you tried connecting the 218 directly to the 8ks, and see how MQA and streamed redbook sound?

I suspect that any difference between Roon 1st unfold and 218 1st unfold will be more audible.

Cheers

George

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#282699 - 2019-02-11 18:42 Re: MQA via 861v8 and 218 - a theoretical question [Re: Mr Meridian]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,663
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,663
Loc: Austria, Europe
George,

I never tried that as the 218 was the last item that I bought, I will do it just for interest.

"Lot of interfaces"...
I start / come from the blank 861 and get then the ID40.
Then I got the Trinnov for the RC, but recognized very fast "beside" the RC how good the streaming of the Trinnov works.
It have to stay in the chain, it's a must-have.

The 218 was bought for another zone but never got out of the chain for the primary zone.

I will test once more the difference between HW and SW decoding with the 218 direct into the DSP.


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#283576 - 2019-03-11 14:32 Re: MQA via 861v8 and 218 - a theoretical question [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,687
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Knows where his towel is
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,687
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
Robert,

What was your conclusion?


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#283692 - 2019-03-15 08:06 Re: MQA via 861v8 and 218 - a theoretical question [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,663
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,663
Loc: Austria, Europe
Hello Bruce,

Sorry I had crazy network/power problems, haven't tested yet.
It's the first thing after I get fixed my problem here.

Robert


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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