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#282771 - 2019-02-14 10:22 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Syles]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,850
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,850
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By Syles
Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Obsess implies a negative connotation which may not represent the reality of audiophiles who simply incline towards open-minded experimentation.
The FUD associated with aftermarket cables plays on audiophiles sensibilities, that said, taken as a hobby, it gives them something to do.
I did not know what FUD means so had to look it up. I found this: "https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fud

Although "fud" is widely accepted in Scotland as being a slang term for the female reproductive organs, it is generally used as a pejorative to describe someone who has just done something stupid …".

I assumed you did not intend to be that offensive so continued looking and found this in Wikipedia: "Fear, uncertainty and doubt is a disinformation strategy used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics, cults, and propaganda. FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear." As that is less insulting I presume that this is what you meant.

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#282772 - 2019-02-14 10:24 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Ogri]
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Asa Post Offline
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Registered: 2008-02-29
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Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By Ogri
I’m really open to tweaks and am often pleasantly surprised. However there ARE explanations for these things. John Swenson explains everything he does in the open and debates with EEs on the topic. That I hear and understand.
Who is John Swenson? I presume that "EEs" are electrical engineers? Do you have any links?

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#282773 - 2019-02-14 10:24 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,695
Syles Offline
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Syles Offline
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Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,695
Loc: London, UK
Yes FUD = Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt; marketing used to sell

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#282774 - 2019-02-14 10:28 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: 3dit0r]
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Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
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Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,850
Loc: Devon, UK
3dit0r,

Thanks for the links.

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#282775 - 2019-02-14 10:30 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,695
Syles Offline
Knows where his towel is
Syles Offline
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Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,695
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By Syles
The FUD associated with aftermarket cables plays on audiophiles sensibilities

Originally Posted By Asa Post
As that is less insulting I presume that this is what you meant.
Less insulting? You find that sentence insulting?

The FUD used by some cable companies is insulting (our intelligence).

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#282776 - 2019-02-14 10:33 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: VirusKiller]
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Asa Post Offline
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Registered: 2008-02-29
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Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By VirusKiller
The question remains as to whether vibrations and RF interference can cause a meaningful (i.e. audible) difference at the transmission frequencies involved. *Personally*, I call BS on this as I think that - if there is an effect - it’s going to be a 2nd (1/10th) or 3rd (1/100th) order effect compared to the primary problems inherent in SPDIF; naturally it follows that I believe that certain manufacturers are having a laugh at their customers’ expense.
Please note that the point I was making was not that the signal was damaged by vibrations on the cable but rather that the cable carries vibrations into the components.

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#282778 - 2019-02-14 12:29 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,570
VirusKiller Offline
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Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,570
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By Asa Post
Please note that the point I was making was not that the signal was damaged by vibrations on the cable but rather that the cable carries vibrations into the components.
My apologies, I missed this. Yes, Meridian has form on this with the ID40 (they didn't realize that the Ethernet cable was a conduit for noise getting into the 8xx, and subsequently provided special cables with the Anniversary 808, and then replaced it with the ID41). SPDIF is very different to Ethernet, and I would hazard a guess that it is a more understood technology by Meridian, but I would not discount the possibility. I don't have any evidence either way.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
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#282787 - 2019-02-14 15:28 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 316
Jeremy A-H Offline
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 316
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted By VirusKiller
Um no, completely incorrect
Perhaps I didn't explain myself very well (or maybe you didn’t understand me)... it's been a long week.

Originally Posted By VirusKiller
For SPDIF and SpeakerLink (which uses a form of SPDIF), there is a single, ideally square-wave, binary signal with no predefined clock rate and biphase marking to indicate the bit transitions.
While there is no *predefined* clock rate (in much the same way as Amex has no preset spending limit), there is always a clock, the rate being set by the transmitter. The whole point of biphase is to allow the clock to be embedded into the signal (Wikipedia says about self-clocking signals such as biphase encoding: 'If the embedded clock signal is isochronous, it gets sent simultaneously with the data.', which is what is happening here).

However (unlike ethernet), it does more than just allow the transitions to be read. Every D/A converter needs a clock and I'm 99% certain on DSP speakers, that the clock that drives the D/A convertors is recovered from this timing signal. If the speakers had their own clocks, you'd have at least three clocks, all drifting apart.

Originally Posted By VirusKiller
True, degradation of the signal can occur. The worst form of this (according to Richard Hollinshead who invented MHR to mitigate the problem) is non-75ohm connections leading to reflections in the cables which soften the ideal square waveform, reducing uncertainty in the exact timing of the transitions - this is jitter. MHR, by randomizing the data, removes correlated jitter (the most audible form), but not uncorrelated jitter.
Exactly, this was pretty much the point I was trying to make (except I was focusing more on the cable capacitance and inductance that alters the signal rather than reflections caused by a change in impedance).

Originally Posted By VirusKiller
The question remains as to whether vibrations and RF interference can cause a meaningful (i.e. audible) difference at the transmission frequencies involved. *Personally*, I call BS on this as I think that - if there is an effect - it’s going to be a 2nd (1/10th) or 3rd (1/100th) order effect compared to the primary problems inherent in SPDIF; naturally it follows that I believe that certain manufacturers are having a laugh at their customers’ expense.
This wasn't a point I was trying to make (at least in the message you replied to). From my perspective, I wouldn't rule anything out, but neither have I heard a conclusive difference (yet). I can see how it might make a difference with components such as the Shunyata power conditioners, by the very nature of how they work.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#282789 - 2019-02-14 17:14 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,875
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Knows where his towel is
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
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Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,875
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
Ah the great cable debate. I have had very few audio enthusiasts say nay when shown the difference. Is there alot of snake oil on the uber expensive cables? Probably. It is not something that everyone can appreciate. For those that do, enjoy the adventure. Everything has to be listened to. It is best if done on your system and not in a showroom. I have had a couple of cases where even with the best of cables and power conditioners, the system owner cannot tell a difference. This brings me to a few conclusions:

1. The onsite equipment is so excellent that no amount of tweaks can make it better

2. The onsite equipment is unable to resolve the differences.

3. The onsite power is so clean out of the wall socket that power conditioners and cables are unable to do their job.

4. The system owner is unable to hear the difference.

There are people in this world that can't appreciate the difference between MP3 and MQA.

My 2 cents.


www.cmbintegrations.com

System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 808v6, DSP8000SEUG, DSP7200SEHC, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, Paradigm 85F, ATI 200WX7 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Triton V3, Sigma power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB, Roon Nucleus.

System #2 Mark Levinson No515, No5805,No 519 Revel, F228be.


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#282798 - 2019-02-14 23:34 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 316
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 316
Loc: Hampshire, UK
+1 well put


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#282801 - 2019-02-15 02:48 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2010-04-24
Posts: 53
David Jackson Offline
Mostly harmless
David Jackson Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2010-04-24
Posts: 53
Loc: Northern Virginia, USA
Nicely put Bruce +1


Mac Mini Roon Server w Uptone JS-2 LPS, 218, 7200SE w Gaia isolation, AQ Vodka SL Cables, Antimode 2.0 for 2x JBL LSR4312SP Subs
2x 20amp dedicated AC lines, Shunyata Python Helix cable to Shunyata Hydra 6, Synergistic Blk fuses, Ice Age AC Cables.
Optically Isolated Ethernet, Auralex Room Treatment. Audeze LCD-2, iFI-iDSD Micro HPhone amp.
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#282802 - 2019-02-15 03:42 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2016-02-22
Posts: 50
Gerard Offline
Mostly harmless
Gerard Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2016-02-22
Posts: 50
Loc: High River, Alberta, Canada
+1

There are way too many variables in each situation to ever provide a definitive answer to what works and what does not, each one of us has to some degree a hearing impairment compared to our youth, each of us has a different room acoustic environment, our power supply and management will differ, our equipment and setups vary greatly, the style and quality of recording is all over the place.

Then to top it off we have a lot of ourselves invested in our systems, the brain senses and responds to our pleasure points and urges us to pursue these delights and that my friends is our collective common disease of forever chasing our elusive audio nirvana ... I wonder if it is more addictive then cocaine ... it may provide the same amount of pleasure and pain.

Gerard.


Home Theater - LG 4K C7, HD 621, G61RSL, oppo 203, MS600, DSP3100 L & R, 2x3100's centers and 4 DSP33's surrounds. 2 x REL S3 SHO and 2 x REL habitat1 subwoofers.

Music & TV, Samsung UHD 55", oppo 203, HD621, G68D, Sooloos 15, 588, M10, M 20's, m33's,

MD600, 2 x Twinstores..
Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata power cables.
Monster AVS 2000
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