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#281590 - 2019-01-10 12:13 MQA options for non SE DSP speakers with G68
Registered: 2016-06-05
Posts: 156
Koputai Offline
Hitchhiker
Koputai Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2016-06-05
Posts: 156
Loc: Collaroy Plateau, NSW, Austral...
Hi All,

As I have DSP5200SL speakers, I understand I will never have full MQA 192k loveliness.

However, I believe that I can get at least partial MQA in to these speakers using the '1st Unfold' at 24/96.

The 218 could be connected directly to the L-R 5200s using the SpeakerLink connection, but that leaves my 5200SL centre and DSW sub out in the cold. Not good.

Can the coax output of the 218 supply the '1st Unfold' as well? If so, could this then be used as a source in to the G68, which could then give me the glorious Trifield that I'm used to?

If not, I believe the Bluesound Node 2i supplies the 1st Unfold via it's coax out. Would this go through the G68 as above?

Thanks for listening,
Jason.


Lounge: Control:10, MS200, G68D, AC11, DSP5200SL (L-HC-R), DSW, HD621, QNAP, Michell Tecnodec.

Storage: DSP5000HC, DSP3100HC x2, DSP3300, G98, G56, G68ADV, 504, 562v1, 562v2, 568, 598, AC11, and enough spare parts to sink a battleship.
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#281591 - 2019-01-10 12:55 Re: MQA options for non SE DSP speakers with G68 [Re: Koputai]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,693
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Knows where his towel is
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,693
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
Your best option is to go analog out of the 218 into the G68. This will give you full MQA from the 218. Yes, you will be subject to an additional A/D conversion but at least it would have been full MQA to begin with.

Direct or stereo will keep you closest to the original intent. Subjecting it to processing such as Trifield will be up to you as to whether or not you like the result. The best full MQA experience is still from a Meridian MQA capable endpoint to SE speakers.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#281592 - 2019-01-10 15:35 Re: MQA options for non SE DSP speakers with G68 [Re: Koputai]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 2,131
3dit0r Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
3dit0r Offline
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Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 2,131
Loc: South UK
It's hard to advise as your system isn't listed - do you already own a 218, or Bluesound, are you streaming from Sooloos, or Roon?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#281606 - 2019-01-10 21:19 Re: MQA options for non SE DSP speakers with G68 [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,663
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,663
Loc: Austria, Europe
Bruce, why going analog in that system?

Roon (SW) or the 218 (HW) can do the first unfold and that can be used as a source for the G65 still in digital.
Then as you suggested, you can listen to direct/stereo or other presets.

The full MQA - means second step rendering - only go with specific DSP SE speakers.


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
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__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
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#281608 - 2019-01-10 21:37 Re: MQA options for non SE DSP speakers with G68 [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,486
VirusKiller Online content
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Online content
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,486
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By CMB Integrations - Bruce
Your best option is to go analog out of the 218 into the G68.
I couldn't disagree more. Take the 2x rate unfolded MQA digitally into the G68. This avoids the 218 DAC (which I've not heard particularly great things about) and avoids the imperfections of the G68 ADC.

Quote:
at least it would have been full MQA to begin with
IMO, this is a mistake. It will be "as good as the 218 DAC implementation".


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#281610 - 2019-01-10 21:50 Re: MQA options for non SE DSP speakers with G68 [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,693
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Knows where his towel is
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,693
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
The reason I suggested going analog was to let the 218 do the MQA completely just as everyone had done with the Explorer 2 and have raved about. Given the equipment the original poster has, to me it seemed the best option. Going digital gets you only the first unfold. The 218's that I own are used in SE speakers and analog as well and the sound quality is quote good on the analog side.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#281614 - 2019-01-10 22:21 Re: MQA options for non SE DSP speakers with G68 [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,693
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Knows where his towel is
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,693
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
I guess we will just have to disagree. Maybe my use of the words "best option" are somewhat subjective.

While not an 818 or 808, the analog out of the 218 in my experience is pretty good. After all, with a G68 and legacy 5200's while very good are not the very best either. In this case everything is a compromise.

To get the very best, SE speakers and a 8 series MQA processor are truly the only way to go.

My suggestion is worth the OP trying and costs nothing but time. The original poster should take the various options and try them out for themselves and report back here with the results.

Early on I did a 218 demo with a 568.2mm. We tried both digital and analog from the 218 and in this case, all in the room were in agreement that the analog out from the 218 playing MQA into the 568.2mm to legacy DSP's sounded better than digital MQA first unfold.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#281663 - 2019-01-12 12:33 Re: MQA options for non SE DSP speakers with G68 [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,492
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,492
Loc: Surrey, UK
I would always defer to whatever a user believed their ears to tell them. However, the logic in my head is saying...

I think the 4x and 8x unfolds of the >96k MQA material will rely heavily on the proper matching of the ADC and DAC responses etc. to get the best out (it all about the timing with the highest res content). Putting analogue into A2D then D2A again is likely to introduce all the negative effects of conversions that the original 218 rendering tried to avoid.

Also, how much of the MQA content is actually >2x? As of today on Tidal (ignoring country variations) it is 19%. The other 81% is 96k or less. So, I would have a think about the down-sides of those extra conversions (plus cables etc) vs the benefits of staying at 2x and digital all the way until the DSP speaker for the 81% of the time. This is actually more the old M philosophy too.

44 29%
48 8%
88 3%
96 41%
176 0%
192 18%
352 1%

Obviously, if a user only ever added the 2014 192k albums and 108 352k albums to their MQA library then it would change a bit but let's assume a user is adding an average selection from each format group.

So, my logic is on the side that says stay digital.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#283003 - 2019-02-22 07:10 Re: MQA options for non SE DSP speakers with G68 [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2011-08-25
Posts: 9
Design Interaction Offline
Harmless
Design Interaction Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2011-08-25
Posts: 9
Loc: San Francisco, USA
Originally Posted By ncpl
I would always defer to whatever a user believed their ears to tell them. However, the logic in my head is saying...
I agree, trust your ears.

In my system using a 218's analog output I can verify that the sound of Full MQA doesn't sound as good as a partial unfolding using a better DAC with non SE speakers.

The 218 pushing MQA through a pair of DSP5200SEs sounds pretty darned good.

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