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#279083 - 2018-09-21 11:09 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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Filipe Offline
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Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Loc: Porto, Portugal
Hi all,

I need some pointers on "what not to do", instead of what to do. I believe I am shooting myself in the foot here.

I have used a subwoofer since I bought the 861 (v4 used) and all went well.
I seem to recall at some point to fiddle with dB level in the Meridian configuration program, and I probably raised the Sub level.

The result is, I think I blown the RCA input on the SUB. Is this possible?

I suspect this a lot, because I replaced the SUB this week... and after 5 min working I turned the system off... a small "THUMP" was heard through the SUB... turn on again... and the new SUB stopped working.

Can this be related to SUB levels on the Meridian config? I don't wish to blow more subs.

Thank you for helping


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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#279085 - 2018-09-21 12:05 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,479
CMB Integrations - Bruce Online content
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Online content
Meridian Partner
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Registered: 2009-11-10
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Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
I would check the sub cable very thoroughly. There would have to be something seriously wrong with the output card of the 861 for it to be taking out line level inputs. Not impossible but pretty unusual.


www.cmbintegrations.com

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#279087 - 2018-09-21 14:19 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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The Sub cable has been the same for a year or so, it's a quality QED cable.
The Subwoofer has been perfectly fine for 1 year... and only recently has apparently been blown out twice in a row.

My doubt is, can a too High level RCA out on the 861 be enough to blow the input on a sub?
I have read advices on taking care on the sub out levels... don't know how much of them are true.

On a side note, all my other RCA outs behave perfectly fine and none of the power amplifiers have any problems dealing with them.


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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#279088 - 2018-09-21 14:27 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,479
CMB Integrations - Bruce Online content
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Online content
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,479
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
Have you tried another cable? The setting in mconfig are to keep from causing the sub voice coil from bottoming out and damaging it. This would mainly happen at very high volume levels. Cables have been known to fail or have an intermittent connection. Try that and report back


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#279089 - 2018-09-21 15:00 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,599
Syles Offline
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I doubt the output would damage the sub's input, these are mA sources, no real power.

I'd look for possible DC offset issues; DC present or a potential difference between the earths on the two units; these can be present where units are plugged into different locations around a room.

If there is an issue here, a transformer coupled connector should solve it.

All the best,

Steve


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#279092 - 2018-09-21 15:53 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Syles]
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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Registered: 2017-11-17
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Loc: Porto, Portugal
Thanks. This idea is probably close to the problem origin. I also suspect this is due to ground leakage of some sort.
I should add some more info into this:

- I have a PS AUDIO PPP (power regenerator) on which all devices are connected, including the SUB. I had it off the PPP for a lot of time, until I discovered this caused a small ground loop and the sub hummed. When connected to the PPP, the hum stopped.

BUT....

I have the 861 connected to the PPP with a 12V trigger.
This is for, when powering ON the 861, it send the signal to the PPP and it turns ON, thus turning ON the SUB and power amps. When the 861 is turned OFF, it sends the trigger to the PPP, and the PPP turns the SUB and AMPS OFF. There is a 3 second delay.

So... the 861 turns OFF... and 3 seconds later the power is CUT from the SUB.
I suspect this is when the "thump" and "input burn" happened...


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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#279099 - 2018-09-21 19:55 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2018-08-04
Posts: 49
MrTechGuy Offline
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MrTechGuy Offline
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Registered: 2018-08-04
Posts: 49
Loc: Cambridgeshire, UK
Hi,

As the sub is analogue I myself would connect a local source (like a mobile phone with cable) to the input to see if the sub makes some output of the music being played. If it doesn't then it's the subwoofer that is at fault if it works then it is not the sub but feed to the sub or the 861.

Regards
Edd


Repairs, Upgrades, Spares and System Setup.
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#279112 - 2018-09-22 06:59 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: MrTechGuy]
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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Filipe Offline
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Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Loc: Porto, Portugal
This is not what is in question here.

Of course it's the subwoofer that went bad, it is the 2nd sub that I blow the input.
I have tested it with the phone, I think I said that already, it now plays very very low (the 2nd sub burned, the first one not even one note)

I cant keep burning subwoofers, so I must find the cause.


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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#279117 - 2018-09-22 17:07 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,790
Carl Offline
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Carl Offline


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Can you try a sub from a different manufacturer ... it may be a weakness with just that brand / model of sub?


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#279123 - 2018-09-22 20:14 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Loc: Porto, Portugal
TRY is a strong word. Are you suggesting that I keep plugin subwoofers to the system and see if they burn?

Nevertheless, that is not a desired solution. I did not spend 3500 EURO worth of subwoofer to put it in the closet (SVS PB16)...


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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#279124 - 2018-09-22 20:35 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,790
Carl Offline
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Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,790
Loc: Central England, UK
It was only a suggestion, no need to be snappy ...

Here is another suggestion ... send your 861 to Meridian; explain the issue and get them to check it.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#279126 - 2018-09-22 22:04 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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Filipe Offline
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Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Loc: Porto, Portugal
Not snappy sorry. I appreciate any comment or help provided.

Anyway my initial question was : is it possible for the 861 to send a signal that blows the input on the sub, or is it impossible?

I need to start discarding scenarios, before I move gear around.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the 861... no other amp has issues and I have several connected to it.


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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#279156 - 2018-09-24 01:41 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 695
Albert Offline
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Before trying you could set a very low level using the sub volume control.


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#279214 - 2018-09-27 13:31 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Albert]
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Loc: Porto, Portugal
Hi,

I am getting a new plate amp for the sub (the 3rd !!) so I must be careful next time I plug it in.
They will NOT replace the plate amp again, so ... extra careful next time.

I will replace the RCA cable... but really... what can the cable be doing? Leakage from ground to signal?
A RCA shorted from Ground to Signal would only cause the sub to go quiet... not burn anything right? So cable can't do anything to burn the input!?

I am more suspicious of ground leakages when turning off the 861.
I don't know what else I can do, to test the RCA out on the 861 for the SUB, unless I plug it in another subwoofer or amp.
I will try that, on a cheaper amp and cheaper speakers. Maybe I will get something... maybe not.

Next time my plate amp comes in, I will plug it in to POWER only... then plug a smartphone to RCA in... and let it play.
If nothing happens, then I will connect it the 861. Hope I don't burn it again.

Cheers


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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#279215 - 2018-09-27 13:33 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,599
Syles Offline
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Syles Offline
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I’d still get a transformer coupler to be safe.


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#279257 - 2018-10-01 10:33 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Syles]
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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Can you specify recommendations ? I dont quite get what you are talking about transformer coupler?


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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#279259 - 2018-10-01 10:56 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,599
Syles Offline
Working on the ultimate question
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Loc: London, UK
Something like the Rane Balance Buddy B22 Link

Or the Neutrik NA2M-D0B-TX Link

This will remove any earth loops, you'll need an XLR cable from it to your Subwoofer.

All the best,
Steve


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#279262 - 2018-10-01 11:30 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Syles]
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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Posts: 38
Loc: Porto, Portugal
I see what you mean, but I can't use XLR connections. My 861 only has RCA analog out.

I found the Jensen SUB-1RR but it is very expensive...


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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#279263 - 2018-10-01 11:33 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,599
Syles Offline
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Posts: 1,599
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By Filipe
I see what you mean, but I can't use XLR connections. My 861 only has RCA analog out
You'd take the RCA from the 861 into the transformer unit, then XLR from the unit to the Subwoofer, the SVSPB16 has XLR inputs.


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#279264 - 2018-10-01 11:37 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Syles]
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Loc: Porto, Portugal
Of course. PLain stupidity. Thank you.
I found this for 35€ in Mouser... it may be worth it.
TY
Cheers


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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#279266 - 2018-10-01 11:50 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,599
Syles Offline
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Syles Offline
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Posts: 1,599
Loc: London, UK


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#279268 - 2018-10-01 13:09 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Syles]
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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Sure it works both ways ? They all say it works XLR >> RCA


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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#279269 - 2018-10-01 13:14 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2007-09-23
Posts: 1,599
Syles Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Syles Offline
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Loc: London, UK
It will work both ways, See this drawing for details, it has the circuit diagram; it's a 1:1 transformer.

The one I chose is meant to go from RCA to XLR as it has a Male XLR (they make female ones too).

All the best,

Steve


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#279273 - 2018-10-01 14:47 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Syles]
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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Filipe Offline
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Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Loc: Porto, Portugal
Thank you. Parts ordered plus a small XLR cable.
Will report on findings later on, hopefully with good results.


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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#279870 - 2018-11-01 13:28 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2005-09-10
Posts: 346
Steve M Offline
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And one month later Filipe ????


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#280001 - 2018-11-09 12:37 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Steve M]
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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Filipe Offline
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Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Loc: Porto, Portugal
Well I confess I have the XLR cables, the RCA to XLR transformer coupler and the NEW plate amplifier for the SUB.
However, I have not installed it yet, when I do I will report findings.


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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#280142 - 2018-11-13 10:16 Re: 861 - Help needed to set Subwoofer Level [Re: Filipe]
Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Filipe Offline
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Filipe Offline
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Registered: 2017-11-17
Posts: 38
Loc: Porto, Portugal
I changed the plate amp on the sub.
I placed the RCA-XLR coupler between the 861 and the sub.
All is working fine for now, so i will leave it be.


861v4/ID40, HD621, Aspen Amplifier Mayas, SF Amati + SF ElipsaAuditor + Proac RDM, Roon on PC, Kodi on Chromebox (with Libreelec).
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