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#278994 - 2018-09-18 21:45 My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc)
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Registered: 2009-08-29
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I've recently upgraded a few bits and pieces of my Hi-Fi setup and, while some of the discussion has been on other threads, I thought I'd put in one place what I've been up to as well as how much of a difference I feel they made for anyone else who might be thinking along similar lines.

If anyone has tried the same or alternative upgrades, I’d love to hear your thoughts...

A short while after I bought my 7200's (all of four weeks later), Meridian launched their SE speakers. Unfortunately, I couldn't justify the cost of the upgrade given I didn't get a lot of time to listen to the system as it was stuck in our living room. We moved house about a year ago and now have somewhere seperate to listen to music, which meant it made sense to think about upgrading the system to SE speakers and the 818v3.

So, I thought it would be interesting to describe how the journey went along with some commentary:

1) I upgraded the speakers from DSP7200's to SE's, which was a definite improvement, but nothing compared to what was to come

2) I then upgraded to the 818v3 which was a huge difference (I think the moral here is to do both upgrades at the same time if you can). I can't see the 818v3 upgrade making such a dramatic difference on its own. All of a sudden the sound stage became far more realistic and stable. MQA was even better.

3) I then got stuck down a rabbit hole of mains noise. What started as a 'let's not risk missing anything by not replacing the mains cables' became a project of understanding why this could make a difference and I ended up a long way down this particular hole. First with the Shunyata Triton v2 and Shunyata cables. This easily matches, if not beats the upgrade from the standard speakers and 818v2 to the SE's with the 818v3 upgrade. Seriously, go and listen to one of these (or a Denali, I suspect, would also be pretty damn good). Up until now, lead singers on the virtual stage would shimmer or get lost at times. The v2 fixed this completely and I think the lesson I learnt here is not overlook the mains supply!

4) The Shunyata Triton v3 upgrade a few weeks later made everything sound much more musical, the soundstage now had a sense of depth and the instruments sounded much more life-like.

5) So, if noise on the mains makes a difference, how about noise on ethernet? I tried an SotM dcBL-CAT7 special edition and the sound got even better, the sound stage more clearly defined (not as much an improvement of the changes above, but still worthwhile)

6) I then upgraded to the Antipodes CX and this was better (but has a really apparent burn-in time), although I don't think I noticed the quite the difference that others might achieve. This maybe because I'd already put a lot of effort into building my own low-noise music server with an 'audiophile JCAT ethernet card. Nonetheless, I think most people would hear a great improvement and it's easier to have Antipodes test upgrades to the machine over time than doing this myself.

7) I also decided to look at the speaker cables. After all, if Meridian feel that using someone else's mains cables wouldn't help, and they did, why not the speaker cables? On the advice of Velcro22 (and this is probably the most difficult one to justify price-wise), I went for the AudioQuest Diamonds (I did look at others, but I could understand how the Diamonds might work, and the alternatives would have paid for an upgrade to DSP8000SE's!). Now we're getting way beyond anything even close to anything I've heard from a Hi-Fi before. Piano's, Guitars, Vocals etc sound so lifelike, it's unreal. At this point, friends who couldn't tell the difference between previous changes are now sat there with the mouths open.

8) Also on the advice of Velcro22 (thanks, mate :-) ), I ordered an AQVOX SE Ethernet Switch. I then went a step further and ordered an SBooster linear power supply feeding an Uptone LPS1.2 to drive the switch. Again, this wasn't the largest difference I've heard to date, but a great improvement on how clearly defined everything is on stage.

If I were to pick upgrades in order of priority, I'd likely suggest either looking at the SE/818v3 or the Shunyata power conditioners first (then the other), followed by the AQVOX (at least until we know how good the SoTM and Uptone Audio switches are), followed by the Antipodes and the AudioQuest Diamond's. To round it off, ethernet filters are definitely a good thing.

Not sure what I should do next, probably more work on the SotM ethernet side of things, but I thought I'd describe this journey in case it helps someone else. One, perhaps, obvious note is that I did this in the order above and doing this in a different order may have better/less obvious benefits and, as always, YMMV!


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#278998 - 2018-09-19 06:07 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2007-09-23
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Syles Offline
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Syles Offline
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Originally Posted By Jeremy A-H
We moved house about a year ago and now have somewhere seperate to listen to music
Not sure what I should do next
Have you thought about acoustic room treatment?

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#278999 - 2018-09-19 07:17 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Syles]
Registered: 2011-08-22
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Not'arf Offline
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A great piece Jeremy & very interesting. Reading your journey, I was surprised at how low down the list the Diamond cables came but each step is nicely written.

If you aren't too modest, would it be appropriate to add in rough costings for each upgrade?

As Syles says, I'm sure some room treatment should be on your list.. GIK Acoustics could be a good place to start.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL Gibraltar 2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#279021 - 2018-09-19 19:39 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2002-02-14
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ncpl Offline
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Thanks for sharing.

Question... the AQVOX people specifically state not to change the PSU. I noticed you went down a fairly typical route of LPSU etc.

What was your thought process here? Did you test?

Cheers


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#279023 - 2018-09-19 20:01 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Syles]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
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Originally Posted By Syles
Have you thought about acoustic room treatment?
I have indeed. That said, room treatment is something I feel you can very quickly end up heading in a backwards direction if done incorrectly or too many assumptions are made, so I'm taking this slowly. First some personal feelings on what I've learnt using Meridian kit over the years (although I don't think any of this will be new to anyone):

a) I find the sound is improved when the rear wall consists of two layers of plasterboard, as opposed to plasterboard on brick. I find any brick (or concrete) even behind the plasterboard is damaging to the sound;

b) Try not have a brick or concrete wall too close behind the listening position either, unless you cover it with fibreglass panels (which is what we had to do at our previous place)

c) Carpet is better than wooden flooring, even wooden flooring with a large rug. Lots of glass windows are your enemy.


Luckily all of those considerations could be taken into account this time around, although I managed to find some new issues:

1) Marble-like hard surfaces on a fireplace are as horrible as glass, so we now have a 4" thick fibreglass panel cut to the size of the fireplace. I'm sure my wife loves this feature!

2) Glass windows and other objects such as radiators aren't totally avoidable and we have a thick, double folded woollen acoustic curtain where there is a reflection point, along with a canvas-like blind a few inches behind the curtains, which also absorbs some of the reflections

3) Trying to use any sound dampening on the walls was a step backwards (as was adding a bass trap), so I need to get advice on what I should do next...


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279024 - 2018-09-19 20:15 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2009-08-29
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Originally Posted By Not'arf
A great piece Jeremy & very interesting. Reading your journey, I was surprised at how low down the list the Diamond cables came but each step is nicely written


Thanks Not'arf :-) I was hoping this would be useful, despite what some might argue is a controversial topic.

The AudioQuest Diamond cables being added towards the end of this set of upgrades was, in part, because it wasn't until I discovered how other cables could make a difference did I realise this could too.

The reason I recommended the speaker cables further down on my list of recommended upgrades was because: a) I feel like I got more bang for the buck from the previous upgrades; and b) I'm not sure you'd hear the improvement I did until the other upgrades are in place. This doesn't make this upgrade any less important, though.

Equally, the SotM ethernet filters were a very important part of the progression to a system that I reckon sounds two to three times better than the stock Meridian system, I should hasten to add in my particular environment. But, they're not cheap, if you want to cover the typical three network connections (Main network, switch to endpoint and switch to music server). I'd start with one on the endpoint and progress from there...


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279026 - 2018-09-19 20:45 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: ncpl]
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Originally Posted By ncpl
... the AQVOX people specifically state not to change the PSU. What was your thought process here ?
It's a pleasure - I've learnt a lot from reading these forums and it's nice to be able to contribute to the discussion smile

They do indeed. I did a lot of reading before taking any of these steps and there were three reasons for taking this approach with the AQVOX:

a) I didn't want an SMPS close to the system. Whatever anyone claims about being able to filter out the noise, I don't believe it's possible to filter noise in the constraints of a really tiny box, without resorting to inductors and the like*. Inductors, by definition, introduce a varying impedance. Impedance means there is a varying voltage, which creates radio frequency noise on the circuit. I think RF noise is something you want to go to the end of the earth to avoid as much as possible in a digital system (largely because it can play havoc with the ground reference and also because there is a timing signal embedded into the data signal which gets skewed by noise).

b) The reviews I saw suggested that using an LPS 1.2 with the AQVOX sounded better - and I could understand this could be the case (have you seen the output voltage ripple from one of these? It's incredibly small).

c) To my mind it sounded better, but I should admit I didn't spend more than an hour comparing. I just want the music to sound great and don't want to spend ages comparing one approach against another. If I can afford the entry ticket and it sounds better, then I'm happy to just listen to the music.

* Incidentally, for those who are interested, the reason I went for Shunyata rather than go for active mains conditioner was exactly this reason. Shunyata don't use inductors, but instead use very large coils (to give you an idea, each Triton weighs about 20 Kg) and none of the coils use an iron core. This means anything connected to it will just see a very, very low resistance to what is akin to a big power source, but one that nonetheless also filters the power.

You obviously can't completely avoid conductors and capacitors, but I feel you should use them [in a Hi-Fi environment] where they are required rather than to fix a problem you've created.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279027 - 2018-09-19 21:05 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2009-08-29
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Originally Posted By Not'arf
If you aren't too modest, would it be appropriate to add in rough costings for each upgrade?


If I want to be alive in the morning, probably not! :-)

What I can say is that you can get the RRP of all of these online - and, for the more expensive items, it's worth keeping an eye out for new or newly new items that come up for sale. I suspect for cables, you can go for older than nearly new (although, I believe the Shunyata Alpha cables are probably too new to find second hand right now).

I've been really, really fortunate with most of what I've bought, for example finding through dealers that wanted to sell their (in most cases, almost new) demo stock. Obviously watch out for cons on eBay etc


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279032 - 2018-09-20 04:53 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2009-11-20
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OldDogCan Offline
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Two surprising sonic improvements this year on another, similar journey:

1) After I upgraded 5000 smileys to 5200SEs in my theater at the end of 2017, I set up a new stereo system with the old equipment in an odd-shaped room with lots of stone and glass. I measured around the listening position with REW software and a calibrated mic to save an .mdat file, which I then sent to Thierry at homeaudiofidelity.com whom I'd heard about on the Roon forums. His room correction filters make a huge difference! Up until now, my only experience had been with MRC which is clearly not in the same league.

2) I asked Bruce Sinclair at CMB, who had sold me the new speakers, about power conditioning. He offered Shunyata, so I bought their PS8, Defender and Venom power cords -as I was very skeptical about this expensive stuff (and don't have Jeremy's budget). Wow! I am now shocked that M recommends against anything beyond their stock power cables. I foolishly took their advice for decades, and sincerely hope this post will save others my chagrin.


ODC

Theater: C61R, DSP5200SEs,420s,33s, 218, HD621, NHT amp/subs, DigiOne, OPPO 203, JVC RS500, Fire,Apple,DirecTVs, Mac Pro 2010+, MF V-LINK II, iFI, AQ, Shunyata & Uptone

And 598DP, 568.2mm, 565, DSP5000.2s, Explorer², iFi nano iDSD BL, Audeze LCD-X, AudioEngine spkrs, M&K subs, Apple MBP, OPPO BDP-83, Roon endps incl Allo USBridge, Signature
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#279051 - 2018-09-20 14:07 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: OldDogCan]
Registered: 2009-08-29
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Good point, I also looked at REW and bought the relevant mic only to find my 818's USB port doesn't work, so I can't play the sample files through it. Meridian say they need it back, but my dealer didn't respond when I tried to book this in during my holiday, so it's going to have to wait another few months until I'm next on holiday.

My only concern is that this will break MQA as to use REW on Roon, you need Roon to do the first unfold and then get the Meridian to do the second. And, right now, this process is broken as the 818 can't understand partially unfolded MQA, so everyone's waiting for a fix.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279054 - 2018-09-20 14:22 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,496
ncpl Offline
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I agree with your a, b and c points regarding walls. I treated the rear wall in my living room and it made a huge difference. Not sure if this aligns with your point 3 about not using dampening.
Containing the primary reflection from the rear wall in my case resolved almost all the front/back interference which was really annoying me. Only with these fixed could I ever expect to resolve changes to power delivery etc.


Thanks for the PSU vs AQV comment. I have several LPSU's so could test if I ever tried one of these units.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#279056 - 2018-09-20 14:47 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: OldDogCan]
Registered: 2012-10-22
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Albert Offline
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Originally Posted By OldDogCan
I measured around the listening position with REW software and a calibrated mic to save an .mdat file, which I then sent to Thierry at homeaudiofidelity.com whom I'd heard about on the Roon forums. His room correction filters make a huge difference! Up until now, my only experience had been with MRC which is clearly not in the same league.
Thanks for sharing, shame we still couldn't setup filters for each channels in Roon.


HT: Audiocom Oppo203 signature with Vanity HD/HD621 861v8, DSP7200SEup DSP5200SEVCup, DSP5200SE
Revel sub30*2 AntimodeX4 JVCx790
Lot of GIK panels
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#279059 - 2018-09-20 16:31 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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I should add two additional thoughts I had about cables. The first is that eBay seems to have several Shunyata Cobra cables at any given point in time and I would imagine these would sound pretty good too.

The other is that I discovered, having added the Diamond cables to my speakers, Redbook audio improved significantly to close the gap somewhat between it and MQA. I'm not sure whether that has something to do with how Meridian transmits MQA over Speakerlink, but an interesting (and pleasant) observation. And might even convince me with the benefit of hindsight to prioritise this upgrade sooner. Again, these cables can be found from time to time on eBay.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279061 - 2018-09-20 16:47 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2004-04-15
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VirusKiller Offline
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Just a warning, but there is a thread on the PS Audio forum in which it is clear that fake PS Audio cables are quite prolific. I have no idea if this is the case with Shunyata, but where there's money to be made...


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#279062 - 2018-09-20 17:40 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2011-11-04
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D4ve84 Offline
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This is really great to read! Sounds like quite a big step forward in all areas 😃

My personal experience with mains (filters, cables and transformers) has led me down the road of a dedicated supply from my board. I’ve installed 6mm 3 core SY flex (has a braid shield but is more workable than swa) and grounded the sheath. Basically giving a 32amp radial to the equipment, I’ve then used 2x 12 way metal Olson non switched blocks and grounded the casing.

To me.. it lowered the noise level. Silence was more silent.. if that makes any sense.

For anyone with practical skills or who knows an electrician this is a really cost affective and straight forward improvement.

Kind regards
David


G61RSL, HD621, DSP5200SE, DSP5200HC, M1500, DSP33, MC200, MS200, 218 x2

Pana UB700 UHD, Pana TX55FX802, Apple TV 2, Pro Ject Debut iii SE, MacBook Pro, Amazon Fire stick, Alexa dot, Humax Freesat HDR, Airport Express. PS4
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#279063 - 2018-09-20 17:50 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: VirusKiller]
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Originally Posted By VirusKiller
fake PS Audio cables are quite prolific
Good point. I bought my Triton from eBay (unused in an unopened box) and had the serial number checked with Shunyata. At a minimum, I'd check the seller has a receipt that looks genuine for the item.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279064 - 2018-09-20 17:57 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: D4ve84]
Registered: 2009-08-29
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Originally Posted By D4ve84
My personal experience with mains (filters, cables and transformers) has led me down the road of a dedicated supply
I tried to get a quote for this, but it would involve pulling up a lot a floorboards and they have been both screwed and glued down and need a circular saw to remove them. It seems it would be about a half a day to a day's work - and I would need a carpet fitter to come in and refit the carpets frown

It might happen. Especially, if the builders come back to sort out some squeaky boards, in which case I'll consider putting in two lengths of cable while the boards are up and get an electrician to wire them to the fuse box smile


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279066 - 2018-09-20 18:10 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,496
ncpl Offline
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Loc: Surrey, UK
I put 2 separate radials in last year... one for each DSP. No floors involved... I got them installed outside and drilled through.

The SE / 818v3 upgrade was very good for RBCD IIRC. A lift in SQ all round.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#279069 - 2018-09-20 21:54 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: ncpl]
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Originally Posted By ncpl
The SE / 818v3 upgrade was very good for RBCD IIRC. A lift in SQ all round.
I agree. This was a monumental upgrade and definitely worth doing.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279071 - 2018-09-20 23:08 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2009-08-29
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Originally Posted By ncpl
I treated the rear wall in my living room and it made a huge difference... Not sure if this aligns with your point 3 about not using dampening
With the rear wall in our previous place, this was absolutely what I found. I suspect doing the same on the side walls in the new place over-damped the room.

Originally Posted By ncpl
Thanks for the PSU vs AQV comment. I have several LPSU's so could test if I ever tried one of these units.
Similar to my situation, I had an LPS 1.2 hanging around, so no harm in trying (as long as you have the voltage set correctly!).


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279105 - 2018-09-21 22:09 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2011-11-04
Posts: 427
D4ve84 Offline
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Originally Posted By Jeremy A-H
... but it would involve pulling up a lot a floorboards and they have been both screwed and glued down and need a circular saw to remove them. It seems it would be about a half a day to a day's work - and I would need a carpet fitter to come in and refit the carpets frown
Got to love chipboard floors... I was lucky my house has floor boards.

As mentioned though externally routing the cable could be an option and can be made to look very tidy in a lot of circumstances.. I do appreciate there will always be a cost though.

Kind regards
David


G61RSL, HD621, DSP5200SE, DSP5200HC, M1500, DSP33, MC200, MS200, 218 x2

Pana UB700 UHD, Pana TX55FX802, Apple TV 2, Pro Ject Debut iii SE, MacBook Pro, Amazon Fire stick, Alexa dot, Humax Freesat HDR, Airport Express. PS4
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#279113 - 2018-09-22 13:39 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: D4ve84]
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Loc: Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted By D4ve84
As mentioned though externally routing the cable could be an option and can be made to look very tidy
Unfortunately, in our case, because of the location of the fuse box and the room, the cable would have to travel a fair distance, so I'm probably not going to be allowed to do this!


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279310 - 2018-10-02 13:20 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Asa Post Offline
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Thanks for a very full, interesting and brave account of your efforts to improve Meridian performance. I can only agree that all efforts to combat RFI, EMI and vibration are essential. I have invested heavily in Vertex/Quiescent, details of which are here . I have also bought Leading Edge platforms that combat the same issues: see here .

There is an interesting comparative review of power conditioners, including Shunyata, in Hi Fi Critic: see here .

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#279313 - 2018-10-02 13:54 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Asa Post]
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I forgot to mention that, when I made my comparison of exotic cat 7 cables, this was before any of the above-mentioned Vertex etc products were installed. I now wonder whether my impressions would be different with a dramatically lowered noise floor.

Originally Posted By Asa Post
What I am about to write will provoke cable sceptics and disappoint those who have invested in Vodkas. However, that is not my intention.

My curiosity was aroused by the references to Audioquest Vodka and Diamond cables improving sound quality. As you can see, my post above reported that I found it hard to understand how this could be the case. But a PM from another HH further stimulated my interest. And at about the same time a friend with a Naim system installed new SL cables that transformed the quality of his sound. [I know that digital and analogue systems and digital and analogue cables are not the same.]

I borrowed two runs of Vodka from my dealer and installed them in daisy-chain configuration (necessitated by the length of the cables)for comparison with my home-run configured cat7. My 2 channel system comprises an 808v5 and 8kSEs. I could detect no difference in sound quality. My dealer called in later and also struggled to find any improvement with the Vodkas.

At my request my dealer had also arranged to borrow some Chord Anthem cables which he had brought with him. With no sense of anticipation these were swapped into the system. Surprisingly, these delivered a very worthwhile improvement in sound quality. Scale, clarity and focus were all improved.

Accordingly, I asked to borrow other cables in Chord's range to see if further benefits could be gained. I ended up with the full range of Signature, Indigo and Sarum to add to the Anthems. I have had all these cables on extended loan for nearly three weeks. The cheapest Anthems offered the most dramatic improvement when compared with the cat7. There was a small incremental gain from the Anthem to the Signature and from the Signature to the Indigo. The difference between the Indigo and the Sarum was also subtle. Sarum is approximately seven times more expensive than Anthem making Anthem something of a bargain. Apart from my family, my findings were also endorsed by two other experienced hi-fi enthusiasts who are used to evaluating equipment. I was under no pressure to buy any of these cables

Cable discussions seem to elicit emotional responses from people that do not apply to other areas of hi-fi. This has made many wary of taking cables as seriously as other parts of their system. Some very distinguished members did not change over to SSTP spec cat cables until less than a year ago. Other very distinguished people put their faith in Meridian and bought branded cable "for peace of mind". However, I urge you to borrow some Chord Anthem cables from your dealer. You may be as surprised as I was at the improvement that they bring. You have nothing to lose but a few hours of your time. Can I explain why these cables should bring such a desirable improvement in sound quality? No.

I now have a longer length of Anthem and have been able to enjoy the advantage of a home run connection. This offered even more scale, clarity and focus. So, at the very least, if your equipment allows, try a home run configuration if you do not already have that installed.

I must express my thanks to Audioquest and Chord for allowing me the luxury of such an extended home trial. And thanks also to Sevenoaks Exeter for making all the arrangements.


The quote was originally posted on 26/7/2015 in a thread entitled "RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases)".

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#279353 - 2018-10-03 16:09 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Asa Post]
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Thanks, Asa smile

Yes, yours was one of the reviews I took note of and I seriously considered the Chord cables. The only reason not to go down this path was that they are *very* pricey at the top of the range and they didn't stock cables in their library of the next cable down (the Sarum T, which was also pretty pricey).

The next best option seemed to be the Diamond cables as I felt they were trying to achieve a similar end result as the ChordMusic cable, but in a different way, and at a price I could afford.

I would agree that I believe the differences cables have on SQ become more pronounced the better the rest of the system is. Certainly, going down the Shunyata Triton route has had a huge impact (as did the SE speaker upgrades combined with the 818v3).


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
Edited by Jeremy A-H; 2018-10-04 02:58.
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#279419 - 2018-10-05 22:57 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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By way of an update, I’ve been exceptionally lucky and managed to lay my hands on a second-hand Typhon to keep my Triton company during the cold winter nights.

The Typhon was something that I had planned to do next year, but it seems the Typhon QR upgrade essentially gives you a brand new unit as something like the faceplate is the only part that remains, and even that can be replaced if you ask for it. One come up on eBay and I couldn’t resist... mostly because I don’t think they’ll be many original boxes for sale (Shunyata had originally said they couldn’t be upgraded but have since changed their mind).

Thoughts to follow as it acclimatises to its new home...


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279660 - 2018-10-19 22:49 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Well, I've been a bit quiet on this topic as I suspected there may be something wrong with my (I hasten to add second hand) Typhon, although Shunyata say it needs about 150 hours of music to settle in, so I think I'll need to leave trying that out for a business trip next week and leave it running while I'm in Germany. I've read reviews saying the same thing, so it might be a matter of being patient... or being doubly patient and waiting to upgrade to the Typhon QR, which is the ultimate goal (and an upgrade that I've been told is very worthwhile).


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279677 - 2018-10-20 14:37 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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If it is second hand why might it need any hours to settle in?

Do they have any comment on that ?


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#279692 - 2018-10-21 03:08 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: ncpl]
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Originally Posted By ncpl
If it is second hand why might it need any hours to settle in?
I didn’t ask that question, but I would imagine it would be to do with the polarization/charging of the material used inside the NIC’s after the unit has been disconnected for some time.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#279797 - 2018-10-26 19:51 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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A quick update on the Typhon: Following my conversation with the (I must say, ever-helpful) Shunyata team, I plugged the Typhon directly into the mains socket next to the HiFi and this has made an incredible difference. I've been playing the Queen Bohemian Rhapsody album and the speakers pretty much disappear with the staging extremely well graduated from left to right.

At a guess, I think the issue with the original design of the Typhon is that it takes a long time to settle in as it actually requires noise on the mains to do so and much of the noise is already filtered out by the Triton. Plugging the Typhon directly into the wall socket resolves this issue at a stroke (bear in mind the new Typhon QR works completely differently in this regard as it sits before the Triton).

PS As a short update, the Typhon has now had two days back in my system and is getting better by the day. The soundstage now has real depth - so much so, when standing listening to a live recording, it can feel like I'm overlooking the stage from a balcony position and can hear where instruments are, not just left to right, but also where they are front to back on the stage. And it all sounds very, very musical. So my view is now that, second hand, these are tremendous value for money - once you have them run in.

It'll be interesting to see what happens if I connect it back to the Triton after it has had 150 hours to settle, although I must admit I'm slightly nervous about making changes to a system that is working so well.

[MQA version of the Queen album arriving tomorrow, which should be interesting...


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
Edited by Jeremy A-H; 2018-10-27 23:50. Edit Reason: Brief update and remove comment about Queen album arriving tomorrow. It isn’t, well at least not the right one! :-(
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#279801 - 2018-10-27 06:35 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Originally Posted By Jeremy A-H
[MQA version of the Queen album arriving tomorrow, which should be interesting...]
Where did you buy this?

Cheers
Greg


M owner since '97
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#279804 - 2018-10-27 17:05 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Greg Wright]
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I checked and it turns out I didn’t. I had a look today and discovered that, although Google showed a match, I missed that it was actually a completely different album that got ordered.

Lesson to myself is not to trust Google with the ability they give advertisers to copy your search string into the search results and prefix this with the word ‘buy’.

That said, there is a higher res version available in the US, but not MQA.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#281212 - 2018-12-31 17:17 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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If only to show that not all sound improvements need to cost silly money, I thought I'd write up a recent discovery which, while more of an emergency measure, demonstrated how even low-cost power conditioning might improve the SQ of our Meridian systems.

By way of some background, it seems in December one of our neighbours put in PowerLine adaptors to get around the networking issues inherent in new-build properties; the signal from which not even the Shunyata kit could eliminate and the sound stage completely collapsed.

After some reading up on the topic, the quickest fix turned out to repurpose a Tacima mains conditioner sitting in my study (costing all of £35 from Amazon) to feed the processor as a stop-gap measure. The sound stage not only went back to how it was, but I think actually may have improved the focus (although, perhaps not all areas of the performance).

I'd recommend against using this solution for DSP speakers, though. I experimented with this and the sound ended up feeling really clinical, losing any sense of realism.

Definitely worth considering for a processor. For the price, I'm not sure it can be beaten.



DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#281213 - 2018-12-31 17:28 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Originally Posted By Jeremy A-H
to feed the processor as a stop-gap measure.

Do you mean just for the 818?

Is it this one [url=Tacima 6 Way Mains Conditioner and Radio Frequency Interference Filter https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000PS5700/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_eiLkCbNC90CD1]amazon link[/url] ?

Cheers
Greg


M owner since '97
Edited by Greg Wright; 2018-12-31 17:32.
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#281214 - 2018-12-31 17:43 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Ian Offline
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When you say one of your neighbours, do you mean one either side or further away?


Meridian owner since 1992
Prime & PSU, Focal Elear headphones, roon (ROCK 8Gi5 Nuc), Explorer 1 & 2, F80. Gathering dust - 200/203, MC200 and various Sonos.
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#281216 - 2018-12-31 18:34 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Greg Wright]
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Originally Posted By Greg Wright

Do you mean just for the 818?
Yes, that's right

Originally Posted By Greg Wright
Is it this one?
Yes, mine has a green core for the common mode choke, but has the same model number


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#281217 - 2018-12-31 18:52 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Ian]
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Originally Posted By Ian
When you say one of your neighbours, do you mean one either side or further away?
I should have been clearer that this only an assumption based on a conversation I had with a neighbour about how they could extend their Wifi, but I didn't go back and ask whether they had decided on this approach as it might look like I was complaining when I'm not.

That said, whatever is causing this is recent (but pre-Christmas lighting), is likely to be pretty close by and on the same phase. I haven't come across anything (even heavy duty three-phase water pumps) creating this kind of issue, so a PowerLine adaptor is my best guess. It's also the easiest solution for most people who need to extend their network through walls that reflect all wifi signals.

In our case, the Sky box couldn't see the Wifi extender six meters away (but the other side of the wall), so we ended up wiring pretty much every room in the house with ethernet sockets to get around this.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#281234 - 2019-01-01 09:47 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Ian Offline
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Originally Posted By Jeremy A-H
By way of some background, it seems in December one of our neighbours put in PowerLine adaptors to get around the networking issues inherent in new-build properties; the signal from which not even the Shunyata kit could eliminate and the sound stage completely collapsed.
This really doesn't sound right to me. Many people run electrical items that create noise such as Powerline adaptors and switched PSU's, but do not suffer/report a sound stage completely collapsing, let alone when some (more devoted listeners around us) run kit to clean up power such as the Shunyata kit that you mention.

A signal from a neighbouring powerline adaptor, certainly in a typical UK street, would likely have travelled 100 yards or more, past several other houses on a different phase, through several meters other devices all screwing with the signal and thats even before taking into account time of day differences such as voltage, frequency, environmental issues, health and just plain old psychoacoustics.

Personally, I would say that the root cause is closer to home, and possibly worth getting the Shunyta guys in with their meter to check your Shunyta kit is working properly and maybe even home in on the source of the problem. Need to follow the evidence.


Meridian owner since 1992
Prime & PSU, Focal Elear headphones, roon (ROCK 8Gi5 Nuc), Explorer 1 & 2, F80. Gathering dust - 200/203, MC200 and various Sonos.
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#281245 - 2019-01-01 21:12 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Ian]
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Well, an oscilloscope in FFT mode and judicious use of the isolators in the fuse box should indicate whether it is internal or external. I can also compare the signal before and after the Shunyata equipment.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#281413 - 2019-01-05 22:21 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Please try and track this source of noise. We're intrigued. smile

I've dabbled with the iFi AC purifier which seems pretty good at limiting certain trouble frequencies. With outlet placement detailed in their guide you can isolate the troublemaker. Not sure if those interfere with any powerline network extenders though. smile It's all very interesting this.. wink

Edit: Saw now that you have the Triton v3 as I do. The backplane of the triton is if I'm not mistaken split between the top 4 outlets and the bottom 4 outlets on EU schuko models atleast.
You can therefore isolate pretty good between those. Try isolating your 818/861 to be alone on the top or bottom 4 outlets. If this doesn't isolate well enough put an iFi AC purifier next to the 818/861 to push the noise down again with upto -40dB for certain frequencies.

You can use the split backplane of the triton v3 to put all SMPS equipment (UHD722/ATV4K/etc) on the bottom 4 outlets and LPS (818/861/DSP Speakers) equipment on the top 4 outlets for example.

If you find the real trouble maker (powerline network extender?) I would surround it with two iFi AC purifiers on a regular powerstrip as they send out an inverted cancellation signal to block that noise but now it can be contained on that single powerstrip before hitting any house wiring circuit.

PS. After you've found the offender please go ahead and upgrade to the Typhon QR which have gotten rave reviews apparently. wink DS.

Good Luck!



Future 861 MQA/24-192 system upgrade owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, Apple-TV 4K with nFuse 5, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> UHD722 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
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#281441 - 2019-01-06 23:56 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Crion]
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Originally Posted By Crion
Please try and track this source of noise. We're intrigued. smile

I’m going to try and find time this week to look at this - I’ll let you know how I get on :-)

Originally Posted By Crion
I've dabbled with the iFi AC purifier which seems pretty good

Yes, I had a play with these - and heard improvements until this additional noise started

Originally Posted By Crion
The backplane of the triton is if I'm not mistaken split between the top 4 outlets and the bottom 4 outlets on EU schuko models atleast

My Triton appears to be split into four groups of two sockets each (two groups on the top and two on the bottom). I currently have the music player plugged into the top and the speakers plugged into different groups on the bottom row, so I think our configuration is similar. That said, my 818 is currently plugged into the mains filter I mentioned previously to make the system bearable! I did try the iFi in the socket next to the 818 (when it was plugged into the Triton) and I felt it sucked some of the life out of the performance, so took it out again...

Originally Posted By Crion
I would surround it with two iFi AC purifiers on a regular powerstrip as they send out an inverted cancellation signal to block that noise but now it can be contained on that single powerstrip before hitting any house wiring circuit

If it turns out to be an internal issue, I will definitely try this. Before this issue, I had two iFi's, one either side of the Triton's wall socket.

I still suspect a PowerLine, though. I have read that the PowerLines push noise beyond 430MHz on to earth/live & neutral. If one considers the drop in signal at 1MHz (at least for ADSL lines) is only around 0.6dB per 30 metres of cable, there would seem a good opportunity for this signal to propagate from a neighbour.

I also read the following quote on The Register's forum recently: 'I was advised by an electrician when asking the same sort of questions, that the [PowerLine] signal will not be stopped at the Fuse Box/Trip Panel. So in addition to appearing on all of your internal rings, it will also be fed into the building supply if you are in apartment block say. I think the signal gets out on to the local supply connection, where it is attenuated by distance'

There is also the wildcard of Sky Q boxes containing PowerLine hardware (but, nowadays, Sky have disabled it because it caused too many complaints). There is always the possibility that one of our Sky Q boxes is playing up and causing this problem.

Originally Posted By Crion
PS Please go ahead and upgrade to the Typhon QR which have gotten rave reviews apparently. wink DS.

I'm hoping to get it shipped back for the upgrade in March :-)


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
Edited by Jeremy A-H; 2019-01-07 02:33.
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#282046 - 2019-01-22 21:02 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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A quick update (for those that are waiting on me) to say that the new year has been busy enough to prevent me finding time to wander around the house with an oscilloscope to figure out what is going on (it's not something you want to rush either, with mains voltages involved).

My plan, though, is to put either a PS Audio P5 or P12 on the Meridian processor, which comes with a kind of dumbed-down oscilloscope (it won't tell me the frequency bands the noise is in, but it will give me the sine wave and the THD figure), which might give a reasonable idea of where the noise is coming from.

The question now is whether to get a P12, which is meant to be miles better, or a P5, which is miles cheaper (and leaves more budget to change to a DPC-6, if an audition shows that works as well).


Edit: I discovered that having any of the bathroom extractor fans on will also completely destroy the sound stage, despite being on different circuits. In this case, nothing I currently have in place will fix this, but it indicates that it doesn't need to be a PowerLine adaptor to screw things up. Fortunately, we don't have a huge need to run these fans.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
Edited by Jeremy A-H; 2019-01-23 21:50.
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#282504 - 2019-02-06 13:17 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Hi Jeremy,

I have been following this thread of your trailblazing into cleaning up mains signal in your house/within your system, with great interest.

I was intrigued by your rating of the Shunyata Triton being so high up on the list of gains made.

After seeing videos of the Triton reducing mains noise from 100 to 0.1 on a noise analyser and another showing that the Venom uk6 taking it down to 0.2, I thought I'd dip my toe into the water and purchase a UK6 power distributer (bought 2nd hand off eBay).

WELL, I received the UK6 last night and with great haste went into my music room.

Firstly I got re-acquainted with a few track and then replaced power leads of 818 + 8000's from my current fairly high-end power distributor, into the UK6.

1 minute in....not that impressed. As a 2nd hand unit I imagine it should have already been 'burnt-in'

Then a few minutes later.......WOW.

Sitting in the dark, my speakers just seemed to disappear. I now have a soundstage like I have never heard before. Pinpoint accuracy of each note with amazing clarity, precise location of vocals with not only better width separation (now past the walls of the room) but also more front to back depth(The guitar played to the left rear on Dire Straits 'Your Latest Trick' just got about 5metres further back). Decays that end with more realism.

The noise floor has also dropped like nothing I have heard before. I think the 8k's are now showing what they are really capable of....this seems to allow more space around singers/instruments, helping create an added sense of what the actual space was like when recorded (or how the producer wanted it to sound).

To my ears, this £750 purchase by far outweighs the gains I think my system made going from 818v2/8000 to 818v3/8000SE....its that big a change.

When listening to tracks from artists such as Norah Jones, where the setting should be more intimate, I have heard hi-end revealing systems that make it sound more like she is playing at Wembley. With the UK6, it kept the intimacy but just made it several levels more realistic. Amazing.

Thank you very much for your reviews and more specific, the break down of order of best gains made.

This is what pointed me in this direction.

I had already planned to listen to some high-end Nordost mains cables this Friday, I'm now thinking I have to try to get a demo of some Shunyata cables.

I can't really see how its going to get that much better from what I have now......but then again I wasn't expecting such a massive level of change with the power distributor.

I'm hoping that the level of change is not great enough to warrant the outlay......lets see.

Thanks Again and please keep us updated with your findings.

I'm also intrigued by the cleaning of the Network side to things you have undertaken but need to read a little more on this to better understand what I may need for my system(still using Sooloos from MC200)

Thanks Again

Darren


Music Room: 818v3, DSP8000SE (SpeakerLink cables), iPad2 (Core Control).
Office: Stax SRS2020 via 818
Lounge: MC200, DSP5200SL.
Sonos Bridge + S5's around the house pointing to Sooloos library.
Garage: analogue System - Why compromise on sound when cleaning the car smile
Wish List: Room Correction with 818.
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#282612 - 2019-02-08 18:35 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Dappad]
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Hi Darren

I'm glad you're enjoying your system smile

Shunyata should be able to arrange some cables for you to demo via one of their dealers (I bought mine from KJ West One). They get audibly better the higher up you go, but the Sigma cables are seriously expensive (try them at your peril!).

I'm inclined to agree that ethernet is something worth doing once you have the mains sorted to your satisfaction - and I wouldn't rule out changing the SpeakerLink cables either.

Let us know how you get on... the Meridian's are seemingly capable of so much more than they deliver out of the box.

Jeremy


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#282640 - 2019-02-09 15:23 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Congratulations Jeremy and Darren in pushing ever onwards with improving your infrastructure and hence your sound quality.

My starting point had been a disappointment with the imaging abilities of the 8kSEs and also with a lack of presence. The steps I have taken which I outlined above have addressed that issue but I have discovered that there was further to go.

Out of idle curiosity, but with no sense of expectation, I decided to try a tweak which I had read about long ago, so long ago that I do not remember where the idea originated. I bought some foam water-pipe lagging (insulation) of generous diameter and cut it into short lengths. These I wrapped around my SL cables and power cords at regular intervals so that each cable no longer touched the ground, the equipment or other cables. The improvement in sound quality that resulted was significant, most notably an increase in clarity and presence. If I was starting again I think I would try this first before making any expensive investments in infrastructure. The whole exercise only cost a few pounds, dramatically less than exotic cable risers.

I realise that this description makes me sound as though I am suffering from an acute case of audiophilia nervosa!

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#282662 - 2019-02-10 19:38 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Asa Post]
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Interesting thought, if Shunyata sell floor-lifters, there is probably a reason. This could be an inexpensive way to try this out.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#282663 - 2019-02-10 19:44 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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These will do the same job, look nice and won’t break the bank.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#282666 - 2019-02-10 21:35 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: 3dit0r]
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Isn't the idea of the supports to absorb vibration? Would a wooden support make a huge difference?

I must admit, I'm still wondering how much micro-vibrations matter, although I completely accept that all sorts of things can make a difference. Even things that, at first glance, shouldn't!


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#282673 - 2019-02-11 09:22 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Originally Posted By Jeremy A-H
Isn't the idea of the supports to absorb vibration? Would a wooden support make a huge difference?
I agree. And pipe lagging can be applied in places where ordinary cable lifters like the Russ Andrews couldn't be applied. The objective is to eliminate direct contact between cables and everything else such as other cables, racks and walls.

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#282676 - 2019-02-11 11:22 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Originally Posted By Jeremy A-H
Isn't the idea of the supports to absorb vibration? Would a wooden support make a huge difference?

I must admit, I'm still wondering how much micro-vibrations matter, although I completely accept that all sorts of things can make a difference. Even things that, at first glance, shouldn't!
They're cheap enough to give them a listen and find out.

Russ has a slightly different philosophy about system supports than most. However, in my experience, his approach works very well in practice, regardless of whichever theory one wishes to subscribe to.

I believe the normal 60-day money back guarantee applies, so you're not taking much of a risk in trying.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#282708 - 2019-02-11 22:24 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: 3dit0r]
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All interesting stuff. Any suggestions about the science involved here?

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#282710 - 2019-02-11 23:36 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Ogri]
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My science lessons were a long time ago, however I think the physics is likely that electricity flowing through a conductor creates a magnetic and electromagnetic field.

Conversely, a changing magnetic or electromagnetic field (even if it’s the conductor that is vibrating) generates electricity which is superimposed on the original signal and becomes noise.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#282713 - 2019-02-12 07:33 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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The speakerlink cables :
Are shielded to reduce EMF / RFI noise
Use twisted pair and balanced topology to reject noise
Are a digital channel, so any noise that gets through is non analogous and rejected

I often wonder what percentage of audiophiles who obsess on the minuscule, bother with things like room treatment?

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#282716 - 2019-02-12 09:11 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Syles]
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For a view of the science see here and here .

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#282717 - 2019-02-12 09:56 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Asa Post]
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Both links are sound engineering, albeit both based in the analogue domain.

I'm not doubting these things exist and can be shown to affect the signal, it's just the differences would be so minimal in the digital channel and it's carrier (speakerlink cable) to make it insignificant in the larger picture.

If we were talking a valve based moving coil phono cartridge amplifier, microphonics and EMF/RFI noise are extremely relevant, in a digital cable, not really an issue.

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#282721 - 2019-02-12 10:57 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Syles]
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I have no doubt that you know considerably more about this than I do. Please forgive me if I write something stupid! I think the points are:

1. Many components that make up our equipment vibrate when an electrical charge is passed through them. This degrades performance in itself. Some of those components that are linked together (eg part of a circuit or wired together) will be microphonic, thereby increasing the degradation. This gets passed around the complete system by our cables causing further damage and microphonic effects.
2. Vibration can be picked up from floors, walls, racks etc and transmitted by all our cables and cords. This may not necessarily have a direct impact on the signals or charges passing through those cables and cords but will be transmitted to our electrical equipment where it will cause similar damage to that outlined above.

I have obviously over-simplified but I hope it gives some idea as to why treating cords and cables with lagging might prove beneficial. I certainly found it so and for an expenditure of less than £10.

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#282722 - 2019-02-12 11:29 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Syles]
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Originally Posted By Syles
The SpeakerLink cables :
Are shielded to reduce EMF / RFI noise
Use twisted pair and balanced topology to reject noise
Are a digital channel, so any noise that gets through is non analogous and rejected.

I often wonder what percentage of audiophiles who obsess on the minuscule, bother with things like room treatment?
Obsess implies a negative connotation which may not represent the reality of audiophiles who simply incline towards open-minded experimentation.

Minuscule assigns a value to the relative importance of room treatment implying it outweighs other changes, but this might depend on the system, room, furnishing, and many other factors, including (perhaps most importantly) which change the listener finds more satisfying.

Over 25 years of experimentation with such things has aligned my personal view with Bob Stuart - that above a certain level of performance everything makes a difference, including cabling (even digital, as his post suggests), supports, room treatment, etc., etc.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#282725 - 2019-02-12 12:04 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: 3dit0r]
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Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Over 25 years of experimentation with such things has aligned my personal view with Bob Stuart
Funny you should say that as when I asked him about quality/purity of power supply (factory tour) he said that all that was done inside the speaker.

I’m really open to tweaks and am often pleasantly surprised. However there ARE explanations for these things. John Swenson explains everything he does in the open and debates with EEs on the topic. That I hear and understand.

Microphony, EMI and RFI are not new ideas. You’d hope Bob Stuart was aware of them when deciding what power cable to use.

Re Science, the question was really a scientific explanation of how a power lead can reduce these effects, and if these effects are actually audible in the first place. Shielded cable - JSSG? That’s a two bob fix.

There’s plenty of science going on, clocking, purity of power on the DC side (what the AC becomes...) but it’s more about grounding, ripple, isolation etc rather than a conductor wire.

Always interested in the science especially if it’s post Bob science, having developed a £40k pair of speakers and forgotten all about the cable!

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#282727 - 2019-02-12 13:01 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: 3dit0r]
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Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Obsess implies a negative connotation which may not represent the reality of audiophiles who simply incline towards open-minded experimentation.
The FUD associated with aftermarket cables plays on audiophiles sensibilities, that said, taken as a hobby, it gives them something to do.

Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Minuscule assigns a value to the relative importance of room treatment implying it outweighs other changes, but this might depend on the system, room, furnishing, and many other factors, including (perhaps most importantly) which change the listener finds more satisfying.
The effect of analogue noise on a digital interconnect in a well designed system is minuscule to the point of irrelevance.

Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Over 25 years of experimentation with such things has aligned my personal view with Bob Stuart - that above a certain level of performance everything makes a difference, including cabling (even digital, as his post suggests), supports, room treatment, etc., etc.
I infer that he means the analogue side, where noise that gets onto the signal will become part of the signal's waveform and is either in the audible range (easily heard) or can effect the circuits in a deleterious way (intermodulation distortion for example).

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#282728 - 2019-02-12 13:15 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Asa Post]
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Originally Posted By Asa Post
1. Many components that make up our equipment vibrate when an electrical charge is passed through them. This degrades performance in itself. Some of those components that are linked together (eg part of a circuit or wired together) will be microphonic, thereby increasing the degradation. This gets passed around the complete system by our cables causing further damage and microphonic effects.
Correct, once noise is in there, it will always be there; in the analogue world, this is why gain structure is so important, maximum gain on the first stage so any further noise isn't amplified and ideally attenuated down the line.

Originally Posted By Asa Post
2. Vibration can be picked up from floors, walls, racks etc and transmitted by all our cables and cords. This may not necessarily have a direct impact on the signals or charges passing through those cables and cords but will be transmitted to our electrical equipment where it will cause similar damage to that outlined above.
Even in the analogue world, these effects should be irrelevant with good engineering, but noise due to vibration on a digital interconnect is so far away from the signal it should be completely rejected. If the cable is broken, has a dry joint etc. this would make difference.

If anyone likes to experiment, make (or buy) a long digital SPDIF cable and insert it into your system looped out to your listening position, whilst listening to music, grab the cable and give it a good shake. Let me know the results.

Edited by Syles; 2019-02-12 13:41. Edit Reason: errant quotes
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#282729 - 2019-02-12 13:25 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Syles]
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Hi Syles

With this in mind, would you also say isolating a hi-fi cabinet from vibration is unlikely to provide benefits in an all digital system?

Cheers
Tom


Main: G61 SL, 218 HD621, 2* 7200SE, 5200HC, DSW,3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 5200s, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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#282730 - 2019-02-12 13:40 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: GMT]
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Depends what all digital means, digital sources with DACs and analogue amplifiers, or is it digital all the way to the 'speaker?

My experience is that decoupling and/or coupling make a difference with turntables (huge), CD players (not a lot), phono pre-amps (a bit, microphonic if you tap them, but that's not normal operation) and loudspeakers.

I've never used a valve amplifier, but they are very microphonic so I'd imagine supports are important.
Anything analogue can be subject to microphony, but with solid state electronics it shouldn't be an issue, if it was such a big deal, all active loudspeakers (including DSP) with the electronics built in would be terrible and would not be made.

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#282736 - 2019-02-12 19:00 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Syles]
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Originally Posted By Syles
Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Obsess implies a negative connotation which may not represent the reality of audiophiles who simply incline towards open-minded experimentation.
The FUD associated with after market cables plays on audiophiles sensibilities, that said, taken as a hobby, it gives them something to do.
Seen through your reality tunnel, and assuming a certain type of audiophile. However, removing your gloss and assuming another type of audiophile, this might equally appear a manifestation of curiosity rather than FUD.

Originally Posted By Syles
Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Minuscule assigns a value to the relative importance of room treatment implying it outweighs other changes, but this might depend on the system, room, furnishing, and many other factors, including (perhaps most importantly) which change the listener finds more satisfying.
The effect of analogue noise on a digital interconnect in a well designed system is minuscule to the point of irrelevance.
Individual listeners can decide whether any given difference is relevant or not, no matter how small it might seem, and assign it a value in their own system, room, etc.

Originally Posted By Syles
Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Over 25 years of experimentation with such things has aligned my personal view with Bob Stuart - that above a certain level of performance everything makes a difference, including cabling (even digital, as his post suggests), supports, room treatment, etc., etc.
I infer that he means the analogue side, where noise that gets onto the signal will become part of the signal's waveform and is either in the audible range (easily heard) or can effect the circuits in a deleterious way (inter-modulation distortion for example).
Read in context, Bob mentions only digital transmission in various forms -
"In my experience the Sooloos network endpoints will always give a better sound than a USB connection, especially from a PC or QNAP. At this level of performance everything makes a difference, including cables, router etc."
Can you say what leads you to infer from this he means analogue cables?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#282739 - 2019-02-12 21:09 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: 3dit0r]
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Bob also decided some Cat 5 cables performed better than others and even put a choke on the original 808 cables.
Both of these things fly in the face of the notion that £40k means you cannot improve things with snakeoil type audiophile tricks.

If it works for an individual then that is all that counts.


Rgds,
Nick

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#282740 - 2019-02-12 21:37 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: ncpl]
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Discoveries about isolation of signal cable took us from ID40 to ID41. But that’s about signal, this is about a mains cable, so not flying in the face. They didn’t and haven’t changed the power cables even on SEs. So it’s either something they are oblivious to at this stage, even though it’s been talked about for many years or they’ve concluded it doesn’t give an improvement (fonal change maybe).

If it works for the individual then that may be all that counts to them but others want to know if it’s real or illusory. John Swenson explains the science, cause an effect. It makes sense and that checks out with what people hear.

Lots of discussion about DC, not so much mains cable. Balanced power supplies - that sounds interesting.

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#282741 - 2019-02-12 21:38 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: 3dit0r]
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Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Seen through your reality tunnel, and assuming a certain type of audiophile. However, removing your gloss and assuming another type of audiophile, this might equally appear a manifestation of curiosity rather than FUD
if you want to get into ‘reality tunnels’, then expectation bias should be right up your street.

Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Individual listeners can decide whether any given difference is relevant or not, no matter how small it might seem, and assign it a value in their own system, room, etc.
fair enough, it just seems to me that worrying about vibration on a digital interconnect should be very low on the list of possible improvements and I’m quite confident that hardly any audiophiles have effective acoustic treatment that would actually make an easily demonstrated difference.

Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Can you say what leads you to infer from this he means analogue cables?

“ having the analogue audio parts well away from ‘radio noisy’ networking is a good idea”
If you want to be pedantic, all cables make a difference, take them away and there’s no sound at all…

Can anyone of you who hear a difference due to vibration in a digital cable give me an explanation of how the low frequency air bourne / foot fall vibrations in the digital cable alone manifest themselves on the converted analogue signal?
dB levels would be nice to know.

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#282749 - 2019-02-13 11:28 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Syles]
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Originally Posted By Syles
if you want to get into ‘reality tunnels’, then expectation bias should be right up your street.
Of course. It's another area in which I find Bob Stuart's approach enlightening. He is highly versed in psychoacoustics and therefore completely aware of expectation bias, etc. He wrote an intriguing article about this kind of thing years ago in The Absolute Sound and I posted a link at the time. I'll repost now, as it seems relevant to much of the recent discussions, and it's fascinating anyway in terms of measurement vs. listening, etc., when Meridian go about designing their products Bob Stuart TAS interview.

Originally Posted By Syles
fair enough, it just seems to me that worrying about vibration on a digital interconnect should be very low on the list of possible improvements and I’m quite confident that hardly any audiophiles have effective acoustic treatment that would actually make an easily demonstrated difference.
It's hard to say, really in terms of how many. My own perception is that interest in room treatment has been growing for a few years now, and I believe that's a beneficial thing. However, my personal experience is it hasn't necessarily outweighed other changes which one might assume would be less influential. I can't speak for others, though.

Originally Posted By Syles
“ having the analogue audio parts well away from ‘radio noisy’ networking is a good idea”
If you want to be pedantic, all cables make a difference, take them away and there’s no sound at all…
In context that's a separate sentence, which is referring to a different point. However, I direct you back to another comment from Bob where he clearly states a 'digital interconnect' can make a difference, which I posted on a recent thread - "Stuart has been working with digital since the early days, and he started with this, "You will have readers who disagree, and that's fine. Everything makes a difference. Which is best? Well, that sort of depends on the DAC and the source (is it a server, PC or optical disc?) as well as the interface and even the digital interconnect cable. The better the rendering device (DAC), the smaller the difference."[/quote]


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#282750 - 2019-02-13 13:24 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: 3dit0r]
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Ogri Offline
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I’m also a Bob Stuart fan, I was surprised when he dismissed the importance of power cables at the meeting after the factory tour (or was it before?). However, I took him at his word – that all the important work on power supply is “done inside”. I was very specific about the question, his answer was unequivocal. It wasn’t that long ago, certainly post Anniversaries.

Signal cables or obviously different but what goes into a DSP, power, though a cable, hasn’t changed much, neither has the science.

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#282752 - 2019-02-13 19:49 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Ogri]
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I once asked Mark Koval the effects of my use of power surge suppressors/conditioners(I use Furman) and having a dedicated sub panel for the outlets to my main system in NC. In short he thought both are/can be beneficial. He added that 8000s are designed to be just plugged into a wall outlet.

His final comment was in effect that at the price of 8Ks, M engineered them to take care of most power pollution problems introduced, to ensure the buyer gets a very large amount of the potential of the flagship product. I don’t find that inconsistent with Bob’s quote in the prior post about that(at a certain level of fidelity), everything matters to some degree.


James
NC1: 861v4+ID40, 218, MS200 (to outdoors), DSP8000SE (upgraded). 5500VC, 5500s, Hsu Research ULS15x2, DirecTV, Oppo BD103, QNAP251, Roon
NC2-see FL 2 with Triad Silver Speakers

FL1: G61R, 218, DSP8000SEs, 5500HC, DSP5000s, DirecTv, Oppo BD103, QNAP469, Roon
FL2: Marantz 7005, M60s, M60C, M33s, Oppo BDP-93, MS200, Roon
Edited by Mtns; 2019-02-13 20:08.
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#282759 - 2019-02-14 00:09 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Mtns]
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Hi Syles

Not having seen something happen (or, alternatively, not understanding why something happens) doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Using your example about SpeakerLink balanced and shielded cabling eliminating noise, the bit that wasn't mentioned is that all cables exhibit a resistance, a capacitance and an inductance.

This impedance will invariably distort an AC signal, whether balanced, shielded, or sitting in zero gravity (which would be far too problematic to seriously consider, even if it did work).

Digital audio cables transmit two signal components: the audio data (which can be pretty easily read back without errors) and a timing signal, which for all intense purposes is analogue. Unfortunately, any distortion to the latter leads to distortion in both the amplitude and time domains.

What is happening is that the cable alters the signal so that the data arrives with all the nice sharp edges of the transmitted signal rounded off (as the data and timing signals are combined, this also has an impact on the timing), making it difficult for the system to figure out when each timing signal/beat really starts (think of it as a kind of metronome).

As I understand it, the theory behind say the AudioQuest cables I use is that they reduce the capacitance 'seen' by the equipment, biasing the dielectric keeping it constantly charged.

Does it make a difference? To my ears, yes. Is it worth what it costs? Only the person buying the cables can make that decision.

What can't be said is that cables don't change the signal, otherwise everyone could have 100Mbps VDSL regardless of how far they lived from the fibre cabinet.

J.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#282760 - 2019-02-14 00:32 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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I could talk about how mains power running to the house via decent, thick cables provided by the utility company can be decimated by amplifiers drawing 40+amps of power in tiny high-frequency chunks through thinner mains cables because of the skin effect, but it's getting late.

Ultimately, I guess I was trying to make the point that there is often more to this story than meets the eye.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#282763 - 2019-02-14 07:56 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2004-04-15
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Originally Posted By Jeremy A-H
Digital audio cables transmit two signal components: the audio data (which can be pretty easily read back without errors) and a timing signal, which for all intense purposes is analogue.
Um no, completely incorrect. For SPDIF and SpeakerLink (which uses a form of SPDIF), there is a single, ideally square-wave, binary signal with no predefined clock rate and biphase marking to indicate the bit transitions.

True, degradation of the signal can occur. The worst form of this (according to Richard Hollinshead who invented MHR to mitigate the problem) is non-75ohm connections leading to reflections in the cables which soften the ideal square waveform, reducing uncertainty in the exact timing of the transitions - this is jitter. MHR, by randomizing the data, removes correlated jitter (the most audible form), but not uncorrelated jitter.

The question remains as to whether vibrations and RF interference can cause a meaningful (i.e. audible) difference at the transmission frequencies involved. *Personally*, I call BS on this as I think that - if there is an effect - it’s going to be a 2nd (1/10th) or 3rd (1/100th) order effect compared to the primary problems inherent in SPDIF; naturally it follows that I believe that certain manufacturers are having a laugh at their customers’ expense.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#282771 - 2019-02-14 10:22 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Syles]
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Originally Posted By Syles
Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Obsess implies a negative connotation which may not represent the reality of audiophiles who simply incline towards open-minded experimentation.
The FUD associated with aftermarket cables plays on audiophiles sensibilities, that said, taken as a hobby, it gives them something to do.
I did not know what FUD means so had to look it up. I found this: "https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fud

Although "fud" is widely accepted in Scotland as being a slang term for the female reproductive organs, it is generally used as a pejorative to describe someone who has just done something stupid …".

I assumed you did not intend to be that offensive so continued looking and found this in Wikipedia: "Fear, uncertainty and doubt is a disinformation strategy used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics, cults, and propaganda. FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear." As that is less insulting I presume that this is what you meant.

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#282772 - 2019-02-14 10:24 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Ogri]
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Originally Posted By Ogri
I’m really open to tweaks and am often pleasantly surprised. However there ARE explanations for these things. John Swenson explains everything he does in the open and debates with EEs on the topic. That I hear and understand.
Who is John Swenson? I presume that "EEs" are electrical engineers? Do you have any links?

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#282773 - 2019-02-14 10:24 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Asa Post]
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Syles Offline
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Yes FUD = Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt; marketing used to sell

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#282774 - 2019-02-14 10:28 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: 3dit0r]
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3dit0r,

Thanks for the links.

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#282775 - 2019-02-14 10:30 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Asa Post]
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Syles Offline
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Originally Posted By Syles
The FUD associated with aftermarket cables plays on audiophiles sensibilities

Originally Posted By Asa Post
As that is less insulting I presume that this is what you meant.
Less insulting? You find that sentence insulting?

The FUD used by some cable companies is insulting (our intelligence).

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#282776 - 2019-02-14 10:33 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: VirusKiller]
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Originally Posted By VirusKiller
The question remains as to whether vibrations and RF interference can cause a meaningful (i.e. audible) difference at the transmission frequencies involved. *Personally*, I call BS on this as I think that - if there is an effect - it’s going to be a 2nd (1/10th) or 3rd (1/100th) order effect compared to the primary problems inherent in SPDIF; naturally it follows that I believe that certain manufacturers are having a laugh at their customers’ expense.
Please note that the point I was making was not that the signal was damaged by vibrations on the cable but rather that the cable carries vibrations into the components.

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#282778 - 2019-02-14 12:29 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Asa Post]
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Originally Posted By Asa Post
Please note that the point I was making was not that the signal was damaged by vibrations on the cable but rather that the cable carries vibrations into the components.
My apologies, I missed this. Yes, Meridian has form on this with the ID40 (they didn't realize that the Ethernet cable was a conduit for noise getting into the 8xx, and subsequently provided special cables with the Anniversary 808, and then replaced it with the ID41). SPDIF is very different to Ethernet, and I would hazard a guess that it is a more understood technology by Meridian, but I would not discount the possibility. I don't have any evidence either way.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#282787 - 2019-02-14 15:28 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: VirusKiller]
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Originally Posted By VirusKiller
Um no, completely incorrect
Perhaps I didn't explain myself very well (or maybe you didn’t understand me)... it's been a long week.

Originally Posted By VirusKiller
For SPDIF and SpeakerLink (which uses a form of SPDIF), there is a single, ideally square-wave, binary signal with no predefined clock rate and biphase marking to indicate the bit transitions.
While there is no *predefined* clock rate (in much the same way as Amex has no preset spending limit), there is always a clock, the rate being set by the transmitter. The whole point of biphase is to allow the clock to be embedded into the signal (Wikipedia says about self-clocking signals such as biphase encoding: 'If the embedded clock signal is isochronous, it gets sent simultaneously with the data.', which is what is happening here).

However (unlike ethernet), it does more than just allow the transitions to be read. Every D/A converter needs a clock and I'm 99% certain on DSP speakers, that the clock that drives the D/A convertors is recovered from this timing signal. If the speakers had their own clocks, you'd have at least three clocks, all drifting apart.

Originally Posted By VirusKiller
True, degradation of the signal can occur. The worst form of this (according to Richard Hollinshead who invented MHR to mitigate the problem) is non-75ohm connections leading to reflections in the cables which soften the ideal square waveform, reducing uncertainty in the exact timing of the transitions - this is jitter. MHR, by randomizing the data, removes correlated jitter (the most audible form), but not uncorrelated jitter.
Exactly, this was pretty much the point I was trying to make (except I was focusing more on the cable capacitance and inductance that alters the signal rather than reflections caused by a change in impedance).

Originally Posted By VirusKiller
The question remains as to whether vibrations and RF interference can cause a meaningful (i.e. audible) difference at the transmission frequencies involved. *Personally*, I call BS on this as I think that - if there is an effect - it’s going to be a 2nd (1/10th) or 3rd (1/100th) order effect compared to the primary problems inherent in SPDIF; naturally it follows that I believe that certain manufacturers are having a laugh at their customers’ expense.
This wasn't a point I was trying to make (at least in the message you replied to). From my perspective, I wouldn't rule anything out, but neither have I heard a conclusive difference (yet). I can see how it might make a difference with components such as the Shunyata power conditioners, by the very nature of how they work.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#282789 - 2019-02-14 17:14 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2009-11-10
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CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
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Ah the great cable debate. I have had very few audio enthusiasts say nay when shown the difference. Is there alot of snake oil on the uber expensive cables? Probably. It is not something that everyone can appreciate. For those that do, enjoy the adventure. Everything has to be listened to. It is best if done on your system and not in a showroom. I have had a couple of cases where even with the best of cables and power conditioners, the system owner cannot tell a difference. This brings me to a few conclusions:

1. The onsite equipment is so excellent that no amount of tweaks can make it better

2. The onsite equipment is unable to resolve the differences.

3. The onsite power is so clean out of the wall socket that power conditioners and cables are unable to do their job.

4. The system owner is unable to hear the difference.

There are people in this world that can't appreciate the difference between MP3 and MQA.

My 2 cents.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#282798 - 2019-02-14 23:34 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
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+1 well put


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#282801 - 2019-02-15 02:48 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
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David Jackson Offline
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Nicely put Bruce +1


Mac Mini Roon Server w Uptone JS-2 LPS, 218, 7200SE w Gaia isolation, AQ Vodka SL Cables, Antimode 2.0 for 2x JBL LSR4312SP Subs
2x 20amp dedicated AC lines, Shunyata Python Helix cable to Shunyata Hydra 6, Synergistic Blk fuses, Ice Age AC Cables.
Optically Isolated Ethernet, Auralex Room Treatment. Audeze LCD-2, iFI-iDSD Micro HPhone amp.
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#282802 - 2019-02-15 03:42 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
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Gerard Offline
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+1

There are way too many variables in each situation to ever provide a definitive answer to what works and what does not, each one of us has to some degree a hearing impairment compared to our youth, each of us has a different room acoustic environment, our power supply and management will differ, our equipment and setups vary greatly, the style and quality of recording is all over the place.

Then to top it off we have a lot of ourselves invested in our systems, the brain senses and responds to our pleasure points and urges us to pursue these delights and that my friends is our collective common disease of forever chasing our elusive audio nirvana ... I wonder if it is more addictive then cocaine ... it may provide the same amount of pleasure and pain.

Gerard.


Home Theater - LG 4K C7, HD 621, G61RSL, oppo 203, MS600, DSP3100 L & R, 2x3100's centers and 4 DSP33's surrounds. 2 x REL S3 SHO and 2 x REL habitat1 subwoofers.

Music & TV, Samsung UHD 55", oppo 203, HD621, G68D, Sooloos 15, 588, M10, M 20's, m33's,

MD600, 2 x Twinstores..
Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata power cables.
Monster AVS 2000
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#282822 - 2019-02-15 16:51 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Gerard]
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Ogri Offline
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Exactly. That’s where the science comes in, removes the doubt...

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#282824 - 2019-02-15 17:19 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Ogri]
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Asa Post Offline
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What science are you referring to? And please see my earlier questions that I posted to you.

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#282830 - 2019-02-15 22:07 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Asa Post]
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Ogri Offline
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A scientific explanation of how a power cable changes the sound. Microphony is known but how does that pass through to the analogue side (does it actually?). What does it do to the components and how does that affect the sound.Vibration and skin effects are all well and good, was never seems to be explained is what effect that creates. Noise is mitigated. If there’s a concern about vibration, why are we spending 40k on amp boards and digital circuits that are bolted to something that vibrates for a living...

Jonn Swenson of UpTone Audio, fairly well regarded.
UpTone

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#282831 - 2019-02-15 22:23 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Ogri]
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Locus Offline
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I would have thought it fairly easy to devise a test to check if vibrating a cable caused any change in the sound coming out of the 'speakers. Put the 'speakers in one room, the equipment and/or cables in another isolated room and then vibrate the cables either physically or by subjecting them to local sound. An objective answer should result. Depending on the result, further investigation might, or might not, be necessary.

Perhaps I should confess to having a rational attitude in these matters.

Locus.

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#282835 - 2019-02-16 08:59 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Ogri]
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Originally Posted By Ogri
If there’s a concern about vibration, why are we spending 40k on amp boards and digital circuits that are bolted to something that vibrates for a living...
Naim use mechanically decoupled mains leads. They also enclose components in a faraday cage. And they mechanically isolate circuits on internal suspension. So they must think the effort is worthwhile on their top-of-the -range products.

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#282836 - 2019-02-16 13:20 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Asa Post]
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That's not my experience with Naim amps. The ones that I owned (up to a NAP300) contained a large toroidal transformer that vibrated (hummed) pretty loudly. One of the reasons I got rid of my Naim kit.

I find it very hard to believe that tiny vibrations within cables will have any audible repercussions unless you using loosely fitting connections.


Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, Vero 4k, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
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#282847 - 2019-02-16 17:36 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
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Alikris Offline
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Quote:
I have had a couple of cases where even with the best of cables and power conditioners, the system owner cannot tell a difference. This brings me to a few conclusions:
You missed out the most obvious conclusion - there is no actual measurable difference in the sound coming out of the speaker.

(Edit): I finally found what I was looking for - ASA Adjudication on The Chord Company Ltd If a cable manufacturer claims their cables 'sound better' then the least they can do is provide objective (independent) evidence.

Also see Nordost Cable demo controversy

Quote:
I have had very few audio enthusiasts say nay when shown the difference

I'm sure they look lovely. That's not the point though. The quesation is do they improve (or even change!) the sound coming out of the speakers? If so, then please provide some proof. (Obviously a 'bad' cable which is out of spec or badly made etc can have a massive effect. But I'm talking about properly made cables which meet approved specifications, which can be bought very cheaply.

See MUSINGS: Audio Cables Summary, Non-Utilitarian Functions & Scientific Falsifiability for a discussion and links to objective cable tests & measurements.

As for Ethernet cables. Either they meet the applicable standard and work or they don't and won't. Ethernet transmits data, not audio, data centres have thousands of miles of Ethernet cables. Ask yourself if there's a difference between standard Ethernet cables and 'audiophile' ones, then why don't data centres use them? Considering all the millions of miles of cheap ethernet cable used in data centres all over the world, how come the Internet works? In fact I would go as far as to say that if two ethernet cables 'sound' different then one of them is faulty because it's changing the datastream somehow. If the datastream coming out of two ethernet cables is identical then it's identical, there cannot be a difference. If there is then it still doesn't matter as each frame of data sent over Ethernet "ends with a frame check sequence (FCS), which is a 32-bit cyclic redundancy check used to detect any in-transit corruption of data". (see Wikipedia Article on Ethernet Data Frames for details. If an error is found then the data frame is resent. It's a very robust reliable system. No audiophile cables needed.

Canford Audio once demonstrated a digital audio signal being transmitted over a piece of wet string. It delivered a "locked, error-free signal" See How wet is a piece of string? for details. It's also been shown that an error free datastream can be sent over a short piece of string acting as an ethernet cable (sorry, can't find the link at the moment. EDIT: Found it, a BBC article Broadband over 'wet string' tested for fun Ok, so it was an ADSL connection not ethernet, but still, it proves a point!). Data transmission over ethernet is a mature technology, has been for years. Do you really believe that Audiophile cable companies know something about Ethernet data transmission that the likes of Cisco doesn't?

If the lesser measuring cable can be shown to transmit audio or data perfectly in a given situation, then the better one cannot be better than perfect, only more expensive.

I have absolutely no doubt that 'some' mains cables and conditioners can improve the 'quality' of electricity going into a piece of audio equipment. But that does not automatically mean that they will change the sound coming out of the equipment. If they did it would be easy to provide some verifiable and repeatable proof in the way of frequency response, S/N ratio and distortion graphs. For example, in the case of Russ Andrews mains cables proven to reduce EMI, the ASA stated that "the graphs do not prove that the rejection measured in the lab has a perceptible (i.e. audible) effect when the cables are used in a Hi-Fi or Home Cinema System". See ASA Adjudication on Russ Andrews Accessories Ltd for details.

Sorry for hijacking your thread Jeremy, but I just had to say this. It really angers me all this cable rubbish that's spouted. There is often a fine line between reality and fantasy, but when it comes to cables there's fantasy in bucketloads just looking for a gullible person to buy into.

Of course, if you prefer one cable to another and it increases your enjoyment of listening to music then that's fine by me, just don't let audio manufacturers or salesmen pull the wool over your eyes.
Ali


Meridian G61R, Behringer A500 amps & DEQ2496 DSP, MiniDSP U-DIO8 audio interface, B&W DM2 Mk2 Speakers (3 pairs), Sony CD, Sony DAT(x3), Alesis Hard Disk Recorder, Sony APR5003 Reel to Reel Recorder. Akai AT93 Tuner & GX-95 MK2 Cassette Deck, Technics SL-1200 Turntable, Valve Phono stage, Denon DL-110 cartridge.

Ambisonic user since the 1980's
Edited by Alikris; 2019-02-17 14:46.
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#282932 - 2019-02-19 19:03 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2002-09-29
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RGraham Offline
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RGraham Offline
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Registered: 2002-09-29
Posts: 228
Loc: London, UK
Back to the world of suggestibility/the abyss...

I note you have the SOtM sNH-10G, which I also took a punt on before Xmas, and I have to say it made a big difference for me. I am coming to think, as Bob Stuart suggested, everything is important, and that Meridian systems can blossom with upstream tweaks to a network.

I believe someone once suggested that two, serial 818s could be better than a sole 818. So...I am going to add more SOtM switches, but what now makes me curious is where it all starts.

Has anyone founder a modem/router they think is a step up from what they had before? Draytek has served me well, but these are strange times... could I do better?


Zone 1: 861v8+ID41, 818V3, HD621, DSP7200SE, DSP5200SE
Zone 2: 818v3, DSP7000, Cavalli Liquid Gold, Hifiman HE-6
Zone 3: 818v3, Roon ROCK/NUCi7, Densen B-330, Monitor Audio PL 200
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#282934 - 2019-02-19 19:16 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Alikris]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,730
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Knows where his towel is
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,730
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
Unless you get to experience the difference for yourself, you honestly should not dismiss it. Get an in home demo of the Shunyata equipment and see if you can hear a difference.

Measurements do not always depict what you actually hear. Just because something has a frequency response of 20 to 20000 Hz doesn't mean is sounds good.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#282935 - 2019-02-19 20:04 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: RGraham]
Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 215
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 215
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By RGraham
Has anyone founder a modem/router they think is a step up from what they had before? Draytek has served me well, but these are strange times... could I do better?
Yes, I’m stunned by the difference a Cisco 2960 makes. Don’t know why but a commercial switch can’t afford much noise or the build up in a large group of them would be awkward. Pings really fast.

This is easier to explain than power cable though. Bob Stuart may have thought everything matters but power cables - not so much...from what he said.

As I understand it power cables can change the sound some but is all change good change? If someone put some science behind it, I would demo properly happily.

Let’s not conflate signal cables, analogue domain cables, switches etc with power cables under the everything counts mantra.

(I have a loaner Cisco switch for postage, I have several)

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#282936 - 2019-02-19 20:15 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 215
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 215
Loc: London, UK
A pair of 5ks for £500, 6ks £2500, 7200.2 £7000? 5200SEs £5500. 861v4 £2000,

Quick reminder how much does the Shunyata gear costs?

(Cisco 2960-8TC-L (iOS 15 Catalyst) - £60, including shielded mains cable)

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#282937 - 2019-02-19 20:28 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Ogri]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,667
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,667
Loc: Austria, Europe
See here, the Cisco 2960 is discontinued.


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#282939 - 2019-02-19 21:04 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 215
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 215
Loc: London, UK
Yes, that’s why it is £60 and not £600! I’m rather hoping that support isn’t needed!
They are second hand.

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#282944 - 2019-02-20 06:47 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Ogri]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,667
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,667
Loc: Austria, Europe
Can you please tell us the exact model/type? There are some variations wink


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#282957 - 2019-02-20 13:51 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Ogri]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,667
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,667
Loc: Austria, Europe
Whats the difference to a basic switch for about € 20.- ?


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#282968 - 2019-02-20 17:56 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: RGraham]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted By RGraham
I note you have the SOtM sNH-10G, which I also took a punt on before Xmas, and I have to say it made a big difference for me. So...I am going to add more SOtM switches, but what now makes me curious is where it all starts.
Someone who listened to the SotM in series with the AQVOX said there was an increase, but not a huge one (about a 10% improvement). As I would have had my AQVOX just lying around, I decided to use that as the switch that precedes the SotM that sits on my desk. I do think the SotM makes a difference, but it's been difficult to measure with the issues with the mains I appear to be suffering with.

I'm still planning to get a PS Audio P12 to use with the 818, which I'm hoping will fix that once and for all!


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#282970 - 2019-02-20 18:01 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted By RobertW
See here, the Cisco 2960 is discontinued.
They heard they'd been overtaken by SotM wink


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#282972 - 2019-02-20 18:26 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 215
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 215
Loc: London, UK
It’s a managed switch (commercial) but can be used in auto mode. I can’t currently explain the increase in SQ, I hope to find out in due course. I need to study how switches work... Ping is much much quicker but how that affects SQ, I’m not sure.

The new audio products being developed for/as network switches indicate the relevance. Sonore have a good reputation for substance over snake oil. It’s partly isolation partly switch noise and clocking. I presume the Cisco switch does some of this and manages the data to some extent.

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#283615 - 2019-03-12 20:32 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Ogri]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Loc: Hampshire, UK
As promised I'm returning with an update on the mains noise issue, just without the pictures as I'd hoped (so far). For some reason, when I go through the steps the pictures don't actually get uploaded, even though I've been able to select them (probably user error due to lack of time).

Well, my P5 (I bought a new, unsold unit) arrived a couple of weeks ago, which has so far eradicated the problem of the sound stage collapsing at times.

I also found the P5 gave a good improvement in SQ when powering my 818 (and plugged directly into the mains supply). My wife's comments were that it much 'smoother', although she questioned whether that was always better. She also questioned whether what I paid was a lot of money to get an increase in SQ, but I digress!

Plugging the P5 into the Shunyata Triton turned out to be a huge improvement again. Both audibly and demonstrably in the (useful) graphs the P5 has. Interestingly, the Shunyata cut by up to 2/3rd's the difference between the 'correct' mains amplitude and what was actually coming in through the wall. Bear in mind, that's not just eradicating high frequency noise (unfortunately, and completely unsurprisingly, the P5 has no FFT capability), but seemingly fixing a lot of issues across the frequency spectrum.

My Typhon is heading back to Shunyata tomorrow to become a Typhon QR and I would imagine the gap will become even smaller then (perhaps to the point the P5 becomes superfluous?).

In summary, my immediate problem is fixed by the P5. With the P5 connected directly to the wall, the noise shows up as taking up approx. 7/12's of upper and lower parts (+ve and -ve) of the screen that show the difference between the incoming voltage and what it should be - I need to ask PS Audio what the scale is before I can comment on whether that is a lot, but I would imagine a decent amount.

I will report back when the Typhon QR gets back into my hands (unless Brexit leaves it stranded in an airport somewhere :-0).

PS For those that are interested, I tried the P5 directly into the wall socket before the Triton as a test, so it powered the DSP's too. All I can say is the P5 was never designed to power the power and number of amps we have in our speakers (that's more P15/P20 territory, I suspect) and the music sounded somewhat foggy.

PPS In response to an earlier question about whether the mains noise was coming from inside the house, all I can say is that, when I switched everything off in the house bar the HiFi (everything turned off from the fuse box, only leaving the listening room on), there was zero difference in the graph produced by the P5. The visible noise didn't change one iota.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#283616 - 2019-03-12 21:07 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Loc: Hampshire, UK
On a very different note, I've also swapped my speaker spikes for the IsoAcoustic GAIA II's.

I've since realised I need to send these back as I hadn't taken account of the fact the DSP speakers only have three spikes, so the loading on each support is somewhat higher than if spread over four (and the DSP7200's go way over what the GAIS II's are meant to be doing as a result).

While I'm yet to be completely sold on acoustic isolators for other parts of the system (with some exceptions), this was definitely an upgrade worth doing... and I'm overjoyed with the impact these have had. Definitely worth considering, especially if you can return them if you don't like them.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#283620 - 2019-03-13 07:30 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2013-03-12
Posts: 95
Rick415 Offline
Hitchhiker
Rick415 Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2013-03-12
Posts: 95
Loc: San Francisco, USA

I have a P5 running a G68 and DSP5200s and even at high volume it’s only using about 25-30% of its capacity. I’m sure the 7200s draw more but I’m a bit surprised that it’s not enough. Interesting...

The P12 has lower output impedance and higher peak output in the same form factor. Might be worth trying one.

Also, the P5 reports THD in and out. I’m usually around 3% in and 0.2 - 0.3% out.


PS Audio PowerPlant P5, Innuos ZenMini Mk3 running Roon core/endpoint, G68ADV, DSP5200, Rhythmik F12 Sub.
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#283624 - 2019-03-13 11:29 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Rick415]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted By Rick415
I have a P5 running a G68 and DSP5200s and even at high volume it’s only using about 25-30% of its capacity
I was nowhere near its capacity, but I still found it blurred the sound compared to the Triton. I suspect the P15/20 in particular would do a much better job.

PS For those wondering, I am referring to the PS Audio P5 (apologies I didn't make that clearer in my previous post).


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#283676 - 2019-03-14 20:34 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Loc: Hampshire, UK
I’ve decided, after a few days of listening to the GAIA isolators on my 7200’s, that I understated just how good they are. To my mind, the performance improvement is probably as great as going from an 818v2 to a v3.

Definitely worth trying... Just remember the DSP’s only have three feet, so you may have to go up one level on the GAIA scale (in my case from the II’S to I’s, which are on the way). My testing has been on the (currently overloaded) GAIA II’s.



DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#283677 - 2019-03-14 20:47 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2010-04-24
Posts: 50
David Jackson Offline
Mostly harmless
David Jackson Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2010-04-24
Posts: 50
Loc: Northern Virginia, USA
I agree, the Isolators do seem to have a very positive impact on the SQ. You have a PM.


Mac Mini Roon Server w Uptone JS-2 LPS, 218, 7200SE w Gaia isolation, AQ Vodka SL Cables, Antimode 2.0 for 2x JBL LSR4312SP Subs
2x 20amp dedicated AC lines, Shunyata Python Helix cable to Shunyata Hydra 6, Synergistic Blk fuses, Ice Age AC Cables.
Optically Isolated Ethernet, Auralex Room Treatment. Audeze LCD-2, iFI-iDSD Micro HPhone amp.
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#283769 - 2019-03-17 20:37 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: David Jackson]
Registered: 2013-05-07
Posts: 102
Dappad Offline
Hitchhiker
Dappad Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2013-05-07
Posts: 102
Loc: Solihull, UK
I thought I’d update on here with my recent experiences with power cords.

A few weeks back, I posted with my very positive findings of using a Shunyata UK6 mains distributor.

This improved the overall sound in my system in every way... with no downside.

I have since spent a couple of weeks investigating the benefits (or not) of upgrading my power cords.

I currently have LAT International AC2 mk2... which I bought a number of years back for circa £200 each.

These had great reviews at the time and were better sounding than many higher priced cables (£1000+) that I also listened to.

I have recently trialled the following at home, in the following order:

Nordost Frey 2 (Power cord) x3
Nordost Tyr 2 (Power cord) x4
Nordost QB6 (Mains distributor)
Nordost Heimdall 2 (Ethernet cable)
Shunyata Delta NR (Power cord) x1
Shunyata Alpha NR (Power cord) x1
Shunyata Sigma NR (Power cord) x1

I first tried the Nordost Frey 2, I found that these added nothing to what I currently have in my system and in fact reduced the soundstage in height and vocals were also set further back,which reduced the sense of realism. Being as I’d ‘only’ paid a few hundred pounds for the LAT International cables, I was actually quite pleased that there was no improvement with a £1600 cable... never mind 3x £1600.

I tried as many combinations as I could with 3x cables: direct from the wall, through the Nordost QB6, through the Shunyata UK6, just to the 818, and just to the 8000’s.

This at least confirmed that I could trust my ears and would not be overcome by the power of expectation of spending circa £5000 on power chords... GULP.

This also made it obvious that the major gains were from the wall to the main power block/distributor.

It also confirmed I had made a good 2nd hand purchase with the UK6. This was far superior to the Nordost QB6.

Next I tried the Nordost Tyr 2.
As I had borrowed 4x cables, I was able to try all permutations.

Unfortunately, these did make quite a big difference and were a definite step up from what I am currently using. DAMN.

The vocals returned to sounding more natural and soundstage was much improved in both depth and width.

All instruments had an extra sense of realism, as well as vocals.

When using 4x of these cables: wall to UK6, UK6 to 818 + UK6 to DSP8000’s, this ‘was’ the best I have ever heard my system sound... £12k worth of difference though... Too rich for me I’m afraid. I don’t think it was £12k worth of difference either... maybe £4K going by 818v2>v3 or 8k>8kSE... somewhere between the two.

At this point I was offered to trial a Nordost Heimdall 2 ethernet cable. I moved my MC200 upstairs to try the cable as input or output to MC200 or local thernet switch.

I found a very slight difference using it between switch and MC200. So slight I couldn’t detect if it was better or just different. From switch to 818, I heard no difference at all. Maybe I just have a good quality signal to the house, or the ID41 it so efficient there is very little to improve upon?

I have no technical understanding as to why these do or should make a difference.

In my system it made no difference... YMMV(never used that acronym before) smile

This made me focus on power cords as this had highlighted the most potential gains... albeit at a higher price point.

I then found a local distributor of Shunyata products and purchased a delta NR for sale or return. If I didn’t like it, I could return it, so nothing ventured nothing gained.

This was a major improvement upon my current cables but not quite as all round an improvement as the Nordost Tyr 2. Although the soundstage was wider and the noise floor lowered to a level I’d never heard my 8ks go before, (even with 4x Tyr 2) there wasn’t as much realism with mid to higher frequencies as with the Tyr 2. Vocals were also not as realistic in comparison.

If this was the ENTRY level Shunyata cable, what could the mid and top level deliver I thought?

I then home trialed the Shunyata Alpha and Sigma for a week.

I was limited to 1x of each cable, so only compared these from wall socket to UK6.

The step up from Delta to Alpha was a pretty major step up in my system. The noise floor in particular had dropped even further... this showed what the 8000’s are really capable of (I imagine the same for any powered speaker).

I would say that 1x Shunyata Alpha, sounded better than 4x Nordost Tyr 2... it’s that good... somewhat of a ‘Bargain’ for the improvement in my system. Considering what the cost of 818v2 to 818v3 card was, this was probably 3x the performance gain for not much more (circa £1750).

After hearing what the Alphas can do, I wasn’t expecting that much of a step up with the Sigma to be honest. The usual law of diminishing returns.

I was wrong, the noise floor dropped yet again. There was so much more Bass control, I was now hearing tightly controlled low notes on tracks I know very well, that up until now I though was just a single long bass note.

The other main gain in performance is very difficult to quantify, as it’s the parts in the music that you don’t hear, is where the real differences are.Some would call it blacker blacks for example.

To me there was more space between notes and on the Eagles track, ‘No more walks in the wood’ for example, there was not just a little more space between all the vocalists but a greater clarity in separation and the voice to the far right, that is slightly deeper than the rest, was more pronounced and could be focused on with greater clarity and separation.

It took 4x of the Nordost Tyr 2 to be this revealing with detail. They had nowhere near as low a noise floor.

Soundstage is slightly wider, deeper, higher and lower... but only on tracks that were recorded that way.

Every musical instrument and vocal just sounded even more realistic, live recordings sounded... ’live’... a new level of live had been discovered compared to my previous benchmark.

For anyone thinking of trying out some power cords, I suggest you try these last... so you can find out for yourselves how much better they are than a lot of more expensive cables.

Anyone thinking of upgrading a component or speakers, should maybe consider upgrading their power cords instead.

I have been truly blown away by the gains my already fairly high-end system has made.

I’m not the only one one this forum to form these opinions about Shunyata products, in fact there are a couple on here who I have to blame for my newly reduced bank balance wink

My 1st step has been to order 2x Alpha NR. Overall these deliver very similar performance to 1x Sigma in except for regarding the very low noise floor. I just couldn’t bring myself to spending that amount on a single cable.....just yet.

Nothing I have heard has matched the 1x Sigma in this regard.

My next step... when funds allow (quite some time away)... will be 1x more Alpha, so 818 and 8ks will all have Alphas and 1x Sigma from wall to UK6.

I’m hoping that will be me done for a very long time... where have I heard that before smile

For those that question if power cables even make a difference due to science not being able to prove any performance gains or it’s maybe just expectation.

I was very happy with my system and definitely did not want to spend this sort of money on any upgrade... especially not on cables.

I suggest you take an open minded (and cleaned eared) listen to a Shunyata product... especially the Alpha NR.

If you cannot hear a gain in performance, then lucky you, you’ve just saved your self a load of money smile



Music Room: 818v3, DSP8000SE (SpeakerLink cables), iPad2 (Core Control).
Office: Stax SRS2020 via 818
Lounge: MC200, DSP5200SL.
Sonos Bridge + S5's around the house pointing to Sooloos library.
Garage: analogue System - Why compromise on sound when cleaning the car smile
Wish List: Room Correction with 818.
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#283771 - 2019-03-17 21:30 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Dappad]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,730
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Knows where his towel is
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,730
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
The Shunyata power cables only get you part way there. When paired with a Denali or Triton, you will be blown away.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#283772 - 2019-03-17 22:28 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Dappad]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Loc: Hampshire, UK
I had a similar experience - I was lent a Sigma, an Alpha and a Delta and ended up buying one Alpha to the Triton and three Delta's to keep costs sensible. The two Delta's powering the 7200SE's were upgraded within a few weeks! I'm now trying to decide between an Alpha for the 818 and a Sigma for the Triton.

Glad you're enjoying them smile


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#284000 - 2019-03-24 15:15 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Loc: Hampshire, UK
I thought I should add that, for people thinking of using the GAIA's, there is a certain amount of height added to the height of the speaker (in the case of the GAIA I's, this is about 27mm), which means the rear supports are lifted off the ground.

As a short-term option you probably want to think about adding something (in an emergency, perhaps some wooden coasters) under the rear supports, as you may find the speakers somewhat unstable otherwise and could be knocked over.

I can't wait to hear what they sound like compared to the GAIA II's, but I have to wait for my 818 to get back to me (Meridian were repairing the USB port last week). Apparently, it was ready to ship back to me on Thursday, so I'm hoping it will be with me tomorrow.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#284001 - 2019-03-24 16:47 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2009-08-29
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Originally Posted By CMB Integrations - Bruce
The Shunyata power cables only get you part way there. When paired with a Denali or Triton, you will be blown away.
I'd agree with this, the difference the Triton v2 or v3 makes compared to the cables alone is pretty stunning. I'd be inclined to keep an eye out for one on the second hand market and then upgrade it when funds allow. The upgrade cost isn't huge (compared to the cost new).


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#284091 - 2019-03-26 13:45 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2004-01-12
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Crion Offline
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Crion Offline
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Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,321
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Agreed, first step if I would start from scratch with a Shunyata/Meridian setup. Triton v2/v3 with a Sigma to wall. If running 2ch a Denali with an Alpha to wall would be a sizable but very noticable improvment as well but half the price probably.

Also if you run the Triton V2/V3 the ground cables do work well with Meridian equipment and DSP speakers. I ended up connecting sources/preamps and front speakers with chassi ground cables to the tritons.


Future 861 MQA/24-192 system upgrade owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, Apple-TV 4K with nFuse 5, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> UHD722 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
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#284095 - 2019-03-26 14:39 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Crion]
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Where did you connect the earthing points to on the DSP's?


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#284098 - 2019-03-26 15:15 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,321
Crion Offline
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Crion Offline
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Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,321
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
The chassi screws on the PSU are a good start.

I used the banana->small spade chassi ground connectors. Just loosen just a nudge so you can press in a small spade then secure it firmly.

The ebb and flow of the music is improved. Faster but more smooth. Less sibiliance.

Star chassi grounding is nothing new btw. But this was easy enough and the tritons have their technology to quiet the ground as well. Denali do not as it is only live/neutral dampened by the NIC’s but still star chassi grounding.


Future 861 MQA/24-192 system upgrade owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, Apple-TV 4K with nFuse 5, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> UHD722 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
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#284103 - 2019-03-26 18:19 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2009-08-29
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Thanks, I'll give this a go. I had tried grounding the 818, but this didn't seem to work so well in my scenario.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#284613 - 2019-04-11 20:54 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
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To continue the story, I have some good and some bad news...

My Shunyata Typhon QR power conditioner (which is designed to sit alongside the Triton) arrived yesterday and the good news is that it is very, very good. Instruments now sound hugely more lifelike and I think the imaging has improved further (after a few hours of running in). The bad news, however, is also that it is very, very good and, as a result, can do devastating damage to your wallet.

Unless you do what I did and buy a second-hand unit and get it upgraded, which makes it less painful. And you effectively get a brand new unit.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
Top
#284614 - 2019-04-11 21:04 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,730
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Knows where his towel is
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
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Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,730
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
+1. Triton v3 and Typhon QR are my next items. I had already upgraded from Alpha to Sigma power cables earlier this year. Need to move the Denali on.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#284643 - 2019-04-12 23:51 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Loc: Hampshire, UK
I believe the Denali is an exciting place for most people to be at, the Triton/Typhon combination seems to be an even better destination to aim for, if you can.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
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#284644 - 2019-04-13 00:25 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,730
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Knows where his towel is
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,730
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
Oh I can😀


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#284668 - 2019-04-13 19:46 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
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Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Loc: Hampshire, UK
smile


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
Top
#284681 - 2019-04-14 15:05 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
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Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 284
Loc: Hampshire, UK
A quick update, as I posted my first comments on the Typhon QR shortly after receiving it.

I've now had the Typhon QR running for a few days now and I have to say it is absolutely stunning. This is a complete revelation with instruments sounding like someone is playing the actual instrument in the same room room as you (so real, it actually feels slightly bizarre at first). I think I mentioned the soundstage has also improved, it's very easy to tell where each instrument is in a very natural, unforced way.

Highly recommended (given the Denali uses much the same technology albeit in a slightly cut down way, I suspect the Denali would be very beneficial too). The next part of my journey is to sort out the room acoustics between 25 and 400Hz (interestingly, while Meridian claim 35Hz-30,000Hz within 3dB, REW is showing that in reality the response in my room goes down to 25Hz within 3dB, but this could be related to a resonance at 50Hz and a void at around 60Hz).

PS While many other changes to my system have contributed to the overall improvements in SQ, I think this has made me realise that getting the power conditioning right is far more important than I realised even part-way through this journey.


DSP7200SE's (on GAIA I's), 818v3, Antipodes CX, SoTM sNH-10G switch

Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon QR
[Using a mix of Alpha NR, Delta NR power cables + SotM and AudioQuest Diamond interconnects]
Top
#284683 - 2019-04-14 15:21 Re: My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 749
Albert Offline
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Albert Offline
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Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 749
Loc: Shanghai, China
Thanks for sharing, looking forward to your "journey with room treatment".


HT: Audiocom Oppo203 signature with Vanity HD/HD621 861v8, DSP7200SEup DSP5200SEVCup, DSP5200SE
Revel sub30*2 AntimodeX4 JVCx790
Lot of GIK panels
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