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#277886 - 2018-07-11 23:32 271 IR input
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Loc: Arizona, USA
Wow, ok I give up...

Is this jack for a unique Meridian Infra-red eye like the manual says or is this some form of std input? It does not conform to the normal input standards. Tip +12 ring? Sleeve?

If I try the normal method of a 3 pin I end up with 12V that’s tip - ring with ring being gnd. The only way I don't get 12 V is ring - sleeve and that does not work sending IR from Crestron.

So. I give up. Anyone used this jack to control it from Crestron or other automation?


861v8+ID40, HD621, 808.3, MC200, 8000, 7200HC, 4x 5200, analog sub, iPads.
The MC200 feeds a Crestron source.
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#277887 - 2018-07-11 23:33 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Loc: Arizona, USA
This is the std Xantech pinout.



Also I assume I can just use 861 IR codes?


861v8+ID40, HD621, 808.3, MC200, 8000, 7200HC, 4x 5200, analog sub, iPads.
The MC200 feeds a Crestron source.
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#277889 - 2018-07-12 00:27 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
If you are using Crestron use RS-232. Very simple protocol


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#277893 - 2018-07-12 01:52 Re: 271 IR input [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Loc: Arizona, USA
RS232 is great for input selection. Volume is smoothest via IR. The repeat rate via RS232 makes for slow control.

AND RS232 has had issues over a long time where it will just stop working and you need to power cycle a 861 to get it back.

IR is THE most stable protocol. RS232 is simply more to go wrong.


861v8+ID40, HD621, 808.3, MC200, 8000, 7200HC, 4x 5200, analog sub, iPads.
The MC200 feeds a Crestron source.
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#277894 - 2018-07-12 01:54 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Loc: Arizona, USA
And IR should work. I don't see how to do it. Maybe I need to buy a "Meridian Infra-red eye"?


861v8+ID40, HD621, 808.3, MC200, 8000, 7200HC, 4x 5200, analog sub, iPads.
The MC200 feeds a Crestron source.
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#277895 - 2018-07-12 01:56 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Loc: Arizona, USA
Sorry for too many posts. I had to go look. There is no RS232 port on a 271, it's IP control or IR. IP Control is also slow doing volume. IR is best.


861v8+ID40, HD621, 808.3, MC200, 8000, 7200HC, 4x 5200, analog sub, iPads.
The MC200 feeds a Crestron source.
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#277896 - 2018-07-12 04:51 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2003-09-08
Posts: 148
Colin Offline
Hitchhiker
Colin Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2003-09-08
Posts: 148
Loc: Sydney, Australia
The Meridian wiring is not the same as Xantech.

Tip is +12v
Sleeve is IR input
Case is ground.

This is shown in the 251 user manual on page 19.

Having said that I was just about to post that I am trying to use IR with a 218 using a Xantech without any success. I have enabled the IR port in the configuration program. Some input keys on the MSR+ work but all the others do not.

Any help would be appreciated.


861v8+ID41 Revelation One filter, HD621, Musical Fidelity M8 700 mono blocks, Focal Scala (x2), Focal Mini Utopia (x3), Velodyne DD18, Oppo BD105, Roon NUC, 218, Radiance 2021, JVC X9000
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#277897 - 2018-07-12 06:06 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Colin]
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Loc: Arizona, USA
Yea I had figured out the likely pinout but none of the 861 IR codes were working.

Well this is good info tho. I will hook this up this way and then work on codes that might work. I want input source selection, power on and off and volume.

What IP control documentation is out there ? Are the IP controls the same for all devices ?


861v8+ID40, HD621, 808.3, MC200, 8000, 7200HC, 4x 5200, analog sub, iPads.
The MC200 feeds a Crestron source.
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#277898 - 2018-07-12 06:08 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Loc: Arizona, USA
Thank you smile

I will play with this more tomorrow and in the days ahead.


861v8+ID40, HD621, 808.3, MC200, 8000, 7200HC, 4x 5200, analog sub, iPads.
The MC200 feeds a Crestron source.
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#277899 - 2018-07-12 06:25 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Loc: Arizona, USA
So I can't find the IP control protocol document anyplace. Why is this so secret?

Looks like TCP but I can't find the port number? Maybe a example of the string, like $VDN zone?

It's insane that TechNote_TN78_Sooloos_Control_API document leaves out protocol and port.

I need the above document for a 271 if anyone has one. Mostly I need the TCP Port number and I might be able to guess from there.

Why does Meridian not publish this info?


861v8+ID40, HD621, 808.3, MC200, 8000, 7200HC, 4x 5200, analog sub, iPads.
The MC200 feeds a Crestron source.
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#277900 - 2018-07-12 09:40 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
If you really need to use IR then use the Meridian G12 and a IR flasher. The IP Protocol is the same as the RS232 protocol. You need the port number and the IP address of the 271 to enter into a TCP/IP client module in your Cestron program.

Volume ramping speed can be adjusted using an oscillator symbol. I have never had issues with volume ramp speed or reliability of RS232 control. I have also built RS232 control modules with feedback for bass, treble, etc. for the processors such as the 861 and G series.

I will get back with you about the port number.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

Edited by CMB Integrations - Bruce; 2018-07-12 13:50.
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#277904 - 2018-07-12 12:43 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
The pinout of the “IR In” connector is as follows:

Tip: +12v DC
Ring: Sensor Output
Sleeve: Ground

This also applies to the 251 and 218's running build 185 firmware.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#277908 - 2018-07-12 14:50 Re: 271 IR input [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Loc: Arizona, USA
The weird thing is using this IR pinout and sending 861 IR codes does not work as the person above indicated. Some might, I did not try all codes. I'm wondering if this is a normal voltage for the IR input, as it's a custom pinout, it might also be a weird voltage?

I could port scan the IP and see what's open.

The problem with the OSC is that you end up with a much slower volume adjustment then doing IR. You can only send so many RS232/IP commands per second and last I left off the only increment was 0.5dB. What a good interface allows is to set a step interval OR a faster response. Which the 271 IP control might have, I don't know yet. The RS232 had a fixed limit with the speed of the interface and that was too slow VS the IR method.

The other method is to send direct volume assignments and keep track in code ie send 65.0 65.5 66.0 66.5. This can work well because you can set your own interval step, but, the Meridian RS232 has been a tad unreliable and sending a burst of these can cause it to go offline.

IR control is always to most stable and reliable on any device as long as it's reasonable to do IR. Going IP or RS232 when you don't have to is not the best way. If you don't need feedback, dont do it. Keep it simple.

So I'm going to reach out to Meridian today.

There is a Crestron module a kind person online offers for free, but, it's tied to the MAC of the processor and does more than I want to do. I could load and run that and then use Wireshark to packet capture and work out the port and any protocol.

I would prefer to write my own tho doing just the things I need rather then using some overly complex module.


861v8+ID40, HD621, 808.3, MC200, 8000, 7200HC, 4x 5200, analog sub, iPads.
The MC200 feeds a Crestron source.
Top
#277909 - 2018-07-12 15:22 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
The IR is 12 volts. It should work with others when wired correctly. Certain IR pickups sometimes have trouble with toggle bit codes as Meridian uses. Back in the Elan Home Systems days this was especially troublesome. Your best bet if you need those few milliseconds of your life back when changing volume is to use the G12 and an IR flasher.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#277910 - 2018-07-12 17:55 Re: 271 IR input [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Loc: Arizona, USA
As this is a "IR Input" I would expect to hook a Crestron IR port directly to it. No emitters or rcvrs required. This works with most every other device made in the last 20 years as they all use the Xantech std for pinout and voltages on the IR signal. The 12V might not be the issue. Its the voltage of the IR signal that might be different.

Lets say the Meridian "Infra-red eye" is not the same as a Xantech rcvr. Its sure not pined the same. Then the IR pulses on the signal line might be different. The best way to look at this is with a scope. But you get into other issues too, load resistance for example. Is it pull up or pull down ? Is it just a 0-5 v pules train ? or 0-12 ?

Meridian should not have used their own design for this. There is no logical reason to do so. Use the std everyone else uses.

The volume adjustment time is significant if you say vary from like 40-83. Or in case a loud scene comes up and you need to drop volume quickly. Using IR is maybe 2-3 times faster. Using the RS232 for volume increment using a fast as possible osc takes forever VS IR. I like a responsive volume control.

So what I do going back to a 565 is RS232 for most things but vol is IR. The 861 RS232 had some known issues and I finally just went all IR which was 100% stable all the time and responsive. I never really needed feedback info.

I would do a IP control and see how that goes with a 271. Maybe its stable and volume can increment as fast as IR.


861v8+ID40, HD621, 808.3, MC200, 8000, 7200HC, 4x 5200, analog sub, iPads.
The MC200 feeds a Crestron source.
Top
#277912 - 2018-07-12 19:08 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Loc: Arizona, USA
Thank you Bruce. I am glad you tried to help.

I port scanned the 271. Telnet port 23 is open and it’s not a normal Telnet connection. However it does not respond to commands that work on the 861. It also does not respond to Sooloos commands.

I played with volume and switched sources. The only feedback that came from it was rather technical.

PLL lost lock
DAC PLL locked

Maybe it needs to be in some kind of mode first.

I should get answers from Meridian today. I will post results for others on all this.

There may be another port open. My scanner might miss it.


861v8+ID40, HD621, 808.3, MC200, 8000, 7200HC, 4x 5200, analog sub, iPads.
The MC200 feeds a Crestron source.
Top
#277914 - 2018-07-12 19:27 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
I will be able to provide a little more info once I can get somewhere that I can use my PC.

PM me your email and I will forward you some additional info that you may find useful. It really boils down to how much time you have to spend on this and what that time is worth to you. The G12 is about $160.00 and they are plentiful in the US.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#277918 - 2018-07-13 04:23 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2003-09-08
Posts: 148
Colin Offline
Hitchhiker
Colin Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2003-09-08
Posts: 148
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Here is a document describing the IP protocol Meridian 218 Automation Interface.

It should be all you need to do a Crestron interface.


861v8+ID41 Revelation One filter, HD621, Musical Fidelity M8 700 mono blocks, Focal Scala (x2), Focal Mini Utopia (x3), Velodyne DD18, Oppo BD105, Roon NUC, 218, Radiance 2021, JVC X9000
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#277919 - 2018-07-13 07:11 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Colin]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,539
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,539
Loc: Europe
Here it is as a document link.


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#277926 - 2018-07-13 10:53 Re: 271 IR input [Re: Xymox]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
The connection to the product is by a raw TCP stream on port 9014


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#277941 - 2018-07-14 10:23 Re: 271 IR input [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless
Xymox Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 53
Loc: Arizona, USA
Thank you all.

Yes I got the document and awesome help directly from Meridian. It’s under control.

I will need to go play with the IP control in person to judge the best way to control volume. I made my own IP module and tested it remotely watching feedback, but, I want to be in person to play with volume speed.

The document is pretty clear 113ms between commands is the min. So to go from 50-60 is a bit over 1 second. That seems pretty good, but I will try both IR and IP to sort it out.

So far the basic functions work fine. No issues. I will sort thru the various feedback and decide what I want to display.

Looks like a nice protocol and I gotta say, human readable and simple is ALWAYS a good thing.

I have not tested IR yet.

Again, thank you for the help.


861v8+ID40, HD621, 808.3, MC200, 8000, 7200HC, 4x 5200, analog sub, iPads.
The MC200 feeds a Crestron source.
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