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#277531 - 2018-06-26 11:45 Dinosaurs are not the future
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,539
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,539
Loc: Europe
I attended the North West Audio Show at Cranage last weekend as an assistant to an exhibitor, the show is free entry including a complimentary glass of Prosecco. It was interesting to see the age range of attendees, I would say 75% were over 50 which is worrying for the future, I was also surprised by the number of people who don’t stream and have no intention of doing so. Roon seemed to have a good level of awareness amongst those who already stream or are planning to do so, MQA was a mystery word to everyone I spoke to and even when it was demonstrated and explained made no positive impression, in fact if there was one overriding impression it was that audio needs to fit into modern houses and be minimalist eg:

Speakers that are active and have the DAC built in so they can be streamed to directly from the streamer (Roon, Sooloos etc.) speaker size did not seem to be a significant factor but the minimal box count and absence of excessive cables was.

Wireless speakers if possible.

House friendly designs and customisation options, however, too much choice just confuses (you can have the speakers in any colour you want is not is not the answer) so this has to be carefully considered.

Speakers that can be placed near to the wall/corner and work well.

I fear myself and others with racks in corners and speakers placed the appropriate distance from the wall and corners and startup procedures that rival an Apollo rocket launch are dinosaurs and increasingly irrelevant compared to the new way that buyers want to integrate audio into their lives. Most women I spoke to liked a nice sound but never had time to just sit and listen so ‘good’ was good enough, critical to them was the way they accessed it, was it easy to turn on, easy to just play a song or album, going forward systems need to be intelligent so the user doesn’t have to be. When women were asked to pick a song they liked using Roon on an iPad they replied that they didn’t know how to and their husband/partner did that however once they were shown how Roon (and Sooloos would have been similar) worked on the iPad they were off and running, picking and adding tracks to the queue.

Bottom line is almost everyone can operate a smartphone or iPad and they want that and speakers, nothing else, a system anyone can understand and anyone can operate.

Of course dinosaurs will lumber on but maybe our time is limited

Russ 🦖


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
Edited by Ratbert; 2018-06-26 18:15.
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#277546 - 2018-06-26 14:31 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 425
Akimo Offline
Paranoid android
Akimo Offline
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Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 425
Loc: San Jose, California, USA
Another sign of how things are going:

I live in probably the densest nerd/capita region of the U.S. (silicon valley). Lots of gadget fans with lots of disposable income. Despite that, local audio stores have mostly closed, and the remaining ones are, for the most part, dedicated to custom installations, with hardly a customer ever seen in the shop.


Living room: 818v3, Audio Research VS 110, Maggie 1.6, REL sub
A/V room: 861v8, DSP7200SE L/R/C, 4x DSP320 surrounds, ID41 + Roon, UHD722, Prime+PS
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#277547 - 2018-06-26 14:35 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,539
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,539
Loc: Europe
Hi Akimo

A lot of ‘traditional’ hifi shops want to carry on selling what they have always sold and sadly that is unlikely to be successful, the computer industry moves at a pace completely alien to most hifi companies and dealers.

The Times They Are A-Changin'

Russ


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#277548 - 2018-06-26 16:07 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 2,054
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is
spinaltap Offline
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Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 2,054
Loc: Bournville, UK
My current experience is that dedicated high-end/audiophile dealers carry very little stock compared the past. Where such dealers’ premises would once be full to the rafters of choice offerings they don’t currently have what you’re looking for. I’d say that my local dealer of choice had a very spartan choice of alternative brands.

Even though a given dealer might in theory be a brand x dealer they don’t necessarily carry the whole range as they once did. For example, all of the ‘local’ Rotel dealers that I’ve visited only carry their budget range. I will have to travel to Hereford to hear Rotel’s serious offerings.

I can’t find anyone that actually stocks or demo’s Quad. Local Meridian PP’s limit what they have on display. It’s exasperating, to say the least!


My Mac can go all the way to XI - Mac user since 1988.
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#277549 - 2018-06-26 16:24 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 1,752
MI' Offline
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MI' Offline
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Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 1,752
Loc: United Kingdom
Martins Hi Fi carry a good selection.

Quad Meridian and other fine brands


Under review
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#277550 - 2018-06-26 16:31 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: MI']
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,539
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,539
Loc: Europe
Indeed and perhaps a good example of how to keep up to date along with Audio Images.


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#277551 - 2018-06-26 16:48 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 1,752
MI' Offline
Knows where his towel is
MI' Offline
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Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 1,752
Loc: United Kingdom
Indeed Ratbert, indeed!


Under review
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#277553 - 2018-06-26 19:32 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: MI']
Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 2,054
spinaltap Offline
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spinaltap Offline
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Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 2,054
Loc: Bournville, UK
That’s not the solution: having to travel upwards of 100 miles to audition/evaluate kit - let alone the impractically of home auditioning simply doesn’t cut it.


My Mac can go all the way to XI - Mac user since 1988.
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#277554 - 2018-06-26 19:41 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 425
Akimo Offline
Paranoid android
Akimo Offline
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Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 425
Loc: San Jose, California, USA
I just remembered another difference. When I first got into audio, many brands were happy to provide you with circuit diagrams if you wanted to do your own maintenance. Nowadays, when you ask the question of their support departments, there's a pause on the other end of the line, like you'd asked for the nuclear codes.

I think this whole thread fits into a pattern of most of the things in our lives (smart phones, tablets, iOt stuff, etc.) generally working so well and doing such complex stuff, it's effectively magic for most of us. Particularly for the younger generations, who have grown up around modern technology. We don't want to worry about impedance matching our amps and preamps, because that should just be taken care of.

A mixed blessing, of sorts.


Living room: 818v3, Audio Research VS 110, Maggie 1.6, REL sub
A/V room: 861v8, DSP7200SE L/R/C, 4x DSP320 surrounds, ID41 + Roon, UHD722, Prime+PS
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#277555 - 2018-06-26 20:14 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 1,752
MI' Offline
Knows where his towel is
MI' Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 1,752
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By spinaltap
That’s not the solution: having to travel upwards of 100 miles to audition/evaluate kit - let alone the impractically of home auditioning simply doesn’t cut it.
I guess it depends on your interest and priorities, but if non are available closer to home, what is your alternative?


Under review
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#277557 - 2018-06-26 20:33 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: MI']
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,539
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,539
Loc: Europe
Other products that are available locally I guess or internet dealers who will come to you and home demo.


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#277560 - 2018-06-26 23:14 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
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Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
I regularly travel upwards of 800 miles doing in home demos or providing certain pieces shipped out for home demos provided proper arrangments are made. It is not practical for me to offer full product lines this way but the more popular ones work out well. I keep 5200SE and most of the Shunyata products available for in home demo use.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#277564 - 2018-06-27 08:49 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 2,054
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is
spinaltap Offline
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Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 2,054
Loc: Bournville, UK
Originally Posted By Ratbert
Other products that are available locally I guess or internet dealers who will come to you and home demo.
Case in point: one Rotel dealer (from whom I previously bought Meridian) advised that Rotel’s distributor (B&W) would once have provided said dealer with specific Rotel items that the dealer didn’t ordinarily carry in stock for the customer to home audition. Since B&W were bought out such customer service has evaporated - both for the dealer and the end customer.


My Mac can go all the way to XI - Mac user since 1988.
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#277575 - 2018-06-27 12:26 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 425
Akimo Offline
Paranoid android
Akimo Offline
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Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 425
Loc: San Jose, California, USA
Originally Posted By CMB Integrations - Bruce
I regularly travel upwards of 800 miles doing in home demos.
Amazing and admirable, particular nowadays. The folks in your area are lucky to have a dealer like you.


Living room: 818v3, Audio Research VS 110, Maggie 1.6, REL sub
A/V room: 861v8, DSP7200SE L/R/C, 4x DSP320 surrounds, ID41 + Roon, UHD722, Prime+PS
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#277576 - 2018-06-27 12:40 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,539
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
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Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,539
Loc: Europe
A one off I would say?


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#277580 - 2018-06-27 12:51 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2010-01-24
Posts: 753
Altus Offline
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Altus Offline
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Registered: 2010-01-24
Posts: 753
Loc: Midlands, UK
800 miles on UK roads would take upwards of a week and you would need a new set of teeth at the end of it. Presumably the potholes will get fixed once HS2 is finished. Great service Bruce, you deserve your success.


Streaming: Roon, NUC, QNAP869 NAS
2ch system: Ultra DAC, analogue amps and speakers
Retro system: 101/104/105, analogue speakers
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#277581 - 2018-06-27 12:58 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
I have found that sitting in your shop waiting for customers to stop by is not the best strategy for me. I have to make myself available where and when the need happens. I regularly get called out to a clients home because a local dealer doesn't want to mess with anything that won't involve new equipment. Thus far those local dealers have lost big money with that business model.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#277583 - 2018-06-27 13:57 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,483
Cliff. Offline
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Cliff. Offline
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Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,483
Loc: South Wiltshire, UK
That's the mistake my local HiFi store made. They just sat in their shop like lemons waiting on a dwindling customer base. Minimal movement towards the custom install market, zero engagement with new platforms such as streaming and generally poor internet presence. Their demise was all too predictable but I was very sad to see them fold as they were a good dealer in their day.


Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, Vero 4k, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
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#277584 - 2018-06-27 14:00 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Cliff.]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
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Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
Exactly. You have to be willing to adapt to a rapidly changing environment.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#277585 - 2018-06-27 14:04 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
My area is practically everywhere. I will be headed out to the left coast later this year for two projects.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#277592 - 2018-06-27 18:24 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2016-02-22
Posts: 34
Gerard Offline
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Gerard Offline
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Registered: 2016-02-22
Posts: 34
Loc: High River, Alberta, Canada
Having dealt with Bruce I can attest to his advice and help with various products.

In this interconnected and fast changing world it is increasingly difficult to differentiate between the very good, good and average, so what is the value proposition of high end audio.

The audiophile or more modern terminology 'Music lover', we have to be able to introduce people by showing through listening that there is a wonderful emotional experience to hearing great music played on quality systems, I have yet to meet a person when introduced, at the right time and place, to this environment is not moved by the experience.

Until such time that a person can be convinced that the qualitative difference in music reproduction is worth their while in cost and time, it, like many other products and services will go to the lowest cost and simplest, for them, solution.

In part we, the high end audio community, have to provide a cost and friendly entry point where the graduation to better systems can be seen as a worthwhile and understandable progression.

This most likely will, unfortunately, result in a significant consolidation in audio equipment manufacturers and retailers, something that the rest of the business world is dealing with also, the question for the audio world is will it follow behind or try taking charge of its own destiny.

Whilst some may enjoy the present complexity and competing thoughts about best practices, for most consumers it is at best a turn off (remember the battles between beta and VHS etc. etc.), so how do we provide a clearer and more understandable product that reaches beyond the shrinking audiophile community.

No doubt personal services like those offered by Bruce and similar providers satisfy those seeking their knowledge and professionalism, it is the industry made up of all its stakeholders that have to chart a course that is outward looking and faces the realities of our own as well as the wider music communities desires and needs.


Home Theater - LG 4K C7, HD 621, G61RSL, oppo 203, MS600, DSP3100 L & R, 2x3100's centers and 4 DSP33's surrounds. 2 x REL S3 SHO and 2 x REL habitat1 subwoofers.

Music & TV, Samsung UHD 55", oppo 203, HD621, G68D, Sooloos 15, 588, 518, M10, M 20's, m33's,

MD600, 2 x Twinstores..
Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata power cables.
Monster AVS 2000
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#277596 - 2018-06-27 21:04 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Gerard]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,466
ncpl Offline
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ncpl Offline

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Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,466
Loc: Surrey, UK
This reminds me of a meme I saw a few weeks ago. A picture of the self service checkouts at a DIY store. The caption said “if I wanted to do shopping without people I would have used Amazon”.

I do think there is something in that. I think retail is possibly the architect of its own fate in some respects.

I know it is more complicated than that.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#277603 - 2018-06-27 21:49 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2007-07-09
Posts: 686
JimK Offline
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JimK Offline
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Posts: 686
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By CMB Integrations - Bruce
My area is practically everywhere. I will be headed out to the left coast later this year for two projects.
It's happening. Wow! Door is open and lights are on, Bruce!


Roon,Technics SL10 turntable, Oppo 205, 218 and Swallow Acoustics ALS2 active analog speakers
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#277605 - 2018-06-27 22:12 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: JimK]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,444
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
Thanks Jim


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#277906 - 2018-07-12 13:26 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,904
3dit0r Offline
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3dit0r Offline
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Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,904
Loc: South UK
Originally Posted By spinaltap
That’s not the solution: having to travel upwards of 100 miles to audition/evaluate kit - let alone the impractically of home auditioning simply doesn’t cut it.
We travel further than that to audition kit, but Rick and Andy at Audio Images always make us feel very welcome and do their best to accommodate our needs; we've now come to think of it as a fun 'road trip' with a great audition half-way.

To me, finding a dealer you like and trust, and having a good long-term relationship with them is more important than mileage. I wouldn't be going to another dealer even if they were situated closer (in fact, I believe some might be).


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#277911 - 2018-07-12 18:37 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 2,054
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is
spinaltap Offline
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Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 2,054
Loc: Bournville, UK
The major flaw in your argument is if and when your item eventually goes wrong/needs repair (especially if Meridian) is that said item will have to be shipped to the distant dealer for attention/passing-on to the manufacturer.


My Mac can go all the way to XI - Mac user since 1988.
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#277915 - 2018-07-12 19:41 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,603
Not'arf Online content
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Online content
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,603
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Life does involve an element of risk. smile


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL Gibraltar 2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#277916 - 2018-07-12 20:09 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 2,054
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 2,054
Loc: Bournville, UK
Originally Posted By Not'arf
Life does involve an element of risk. smile
Not if you have a disability.


My Mac can go all the way to XI - Mac user since 1988.
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#277917 - 2018-07-12 22:38 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,904
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,904
Loc: South UK
Originally Posted By spinaltap
The major flaw in your argument is if and when your item eventually goes wrong/needs repair (especially if Meridian) is that said item will have to be shipped to the distant dealer for attention/passing-on to the manufacturer.
I wasn’t making an argument, just expressing what we personally find to be more important/valuable in a dealer.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#277921 - 2018-07-13 10:20 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,603
Not'arf Online content
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Online content
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,603
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Originally Posted By spinaltap
Originally Posted By Not'arf
Life does involve an element of risk. smile
Not if you have a disability.
I don't see that the two are necessarily connected. An awful lot of perfectly healthy people are very risk-averse & very many disabled people are happy to embrace risk. Remember that teenage lad who lost both legs in a car race at Donnington last year; he was back racing within a few months. And finished on the podium first time out.

For example.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL Gibraltar 2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#277932 - 2018-07-13 16:01 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 2,054
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 2,054
Loc: Bournville, UK
He doesn’t have MS.


My Mac can go all the way to XI - Mac user since 1988.
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#277938 - 2018-07-14 07:17 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,603
Not'arf Online content
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Online content
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,603
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
I'd still stand by my earlier post in that just because somebody has a disability I don't see that they have to necessarily take a zero-risk approach to life. But if the MS applies to you spinaltap, then I'm very sorry indeed to hear it.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL Gibraltar 2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#277942 - 2018-07-14 11:15 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,006
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,006
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By spinaltap
The major flaw in your argument is if and when your item eventually goes wrong/needs repair (especially if Meridian) is that said item will have to be shipped to the distant dealer for attention/passing-on to the manufacturer.
Too true. I bought an automatic lawnmower from what I thought was a UK dealer (.co.uk domain etc).

Turned out they were Austrian. Said mower currently somewhere on the continent being "fixed" and I've no 'phone number to contact them on and emails can take a while to be replied to.

I'd far rather have paid more for a UK supplier who I could at least 'phone to discuss any issues.


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#277943 - 2018-07-14 14:04 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2018-04-11
Posts: 28
Alikris Offline
Harmless
Alikris Offline
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Registered: 2018-04-11
Posts: 28
Loc: Northumberland, UK
Originally Posted By Ratbert
It was interesting to see the age range of attendees, I would say 75% were over 50 which is worrying for the future

Older people tend to have more time and disposable income to splash out on niche hobbies (and audiophilia is a very niche market). If you queued up at Record Store day you'd see a lot of much younger people. Audio is alive and doing very well. Audio shows have always been the preserve of 'anoraks' (no disrespect intended). Personally, although music is the number one love of my life I have no desire to go to an audio show these days and I'm over 50! Personally I'd liken a specialist audio show to something like Waxstock (Europe's largest specialist car care event) but I guarantee that 99.9% of car owners would never have heard of it let alone be interested in going. Would you be surprised to hear that one can buy 'hand made' car waxes for hundreds even thousands of pounds? Yes, the car care market also has its fair share of jewellery.

Quote:
I was also surprised by the number of people who don’t stream and have no intention of doing so.

I prefer physical formats. As do many people given the resurgence of vinyl over the past few years, and now even cassettes. When Kindles and Nooks first came out people said it would lead to the death of physical books. In fact once the novelty wore off, books came back into fashion. There's a reason why people prefer physical formats. Personally I'd describe myself as a musicphile. The equipment is a means to an end that's all. Given the choice of going to an audio show or a second hand record shop I know which one I'd prefer (yes, I know they sell records at audio shows). To be honest, apart from the records there's nothing at an audio show I'd be interested in and I have no desire to support the snake oil sellers with my presence.

As for Roon, tell an ordinary person in the street how much it costs and they'll laugh at you and go back to their Spotify. I use Foobar. It's free. I've looked at Roon and can't quite believe why people actually pay money for it when just as good free alternatives are available.

As for MQA . . . I'll move swiftly past that or I'll get banned!

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Wireless speakers if possible.

When I first heard of wireless speakers I was a bit confused as they had to be plugged in, so aren't actually wireless unless they have batteries built in. I have a friend who has a pair of Sonos One speakers. They are definitely not 'wireless' as they need to be plugged into the mains to work. But the sound quality was amazing. They are certainly 'good enough' for most people.

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I fear myself and others with racks in corners and speakers placed the appropriate distance from the wall and corners and startup procedures that rival an Apollo rocket launch are dinosaurs and increasingly irrelevant compared to the new way that buyers want to integrate audio into their lives.


If you think back to the 60's, 70's and '80's most people who listened to music had radiograms then music centres, usually with the speakers placed on the floor either side of the music centre. Younger people had or lusted after "boom boxes". Phones are the new music centres and boom boxs, and are far more flexible. People with audio separates and speakers positioned carefully have always been in the minority.

Quote:
Most women I spoke to liked a nice sound but never had time to just sit and listen so ‘good’ was good enough

Yes, sadly. That said you'll find quite a few professional female musicians have good quality audio systems, and by good quality I mean just that, not audiophile jewellery. Heck, there's a big folk scene where I live and the folk musicians who have listened to my system are all blown away by it saying it's the best sound quality they've ever heard. And that's with my late 1970's B&W DM2 mkII speakers. Good sound quality needn't be expensive. My speakers are good enough, I'd rather spend money on music than chasing some impossible to afford 'best' sounding speakers.

Maybe if men started cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing and feeding the kids then women would have more free time to sit and listen to music? eek

Quote:
Of course dinosaurs will lumber on but maybe our time is limited

I totally disagree. Come back in 50 years and you'll still find people buying proper hi-fi systems and physical music formats, just like they'll still be buying books. But audiophilia will still be a niche market, just as it is now. And Audio shows will still be the preserve of older people because older people will have more time and disposable income than younger folk who will by then be immersed in a VR world.

IMO of course!

Ali.


Meridian G61R, Behringer A500 amps & DEQ2496 DSP, B&W DM2 Mk2 Speakers (3 pairs), Sony CD, Sony DAT(x3), Alesis Hard Disk Recorder, Sony APR5003 Reel to Reel Recorder. Akai AT93 Tuner & GX-95 MK2 Cassette Deck, Technics SL-1200 Turntable, Valve Phono stage, Denon DL-110 cartridge. JoMeek Mic preamps ETC.

Ambisonic user since the 1980's
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#277944 - 2018-07-14 14:14 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: dpstjp]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,904
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,904
Loc: South UK
Originally Posted By dpstjp
Originally Posted By spinaltap
The major flaw in your argument is if and when your item eventually goes wrong/needs repair (especially if Meridian) is that said item will have to be shipped to the distant dealer for attention/passing-on to the manufacturer.
Too true. I bought an automatic lawnmower from what I thought was a UK dealer (.co.uk domain etc).

Turned out they were Austrian. Said mower currently somewhere on the continent being "fixed" and I've no 'phone number to contact them on and emails can take a while to be replied to.

I'd far rather have paid more for a UK supplier who I could at least 'phone to discuss any issues.
Both Meridian, and Rick are UK based, I have no qualms in that regard.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#277947 - 2018-07-14 22:09 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: Alikris]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,283
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,283
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
I can listen to Brooks Williams latest album on release day because I can stream it. I will buy the album at a gig and probably still stream with the R😱😱N system I love so much. All my Brooks albums will be together in date order for easy access wether I have the physical album or not.

Your comments on Roon certainly don’t match my ongoing experience. Also MQA sounds startling on my Bluesound Pulse 2. I would think I am getting the best sound I have ever had from recorded music and at no extra expense to myself. Music has never sounded so good for me and my ability to access it in top quality is beyond anything I could have imagined only a very few years ago.

I like physical media, if I can find room to store it and I hope it goes on forever. Artists need something to sell at gigs beyond T Shirts but the future is here too.


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
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#277971 - 2018-07-16 17:34 Re: Dinosaurs are not the future [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2006-01-14
Posts: 619
ISB Offline
Paranoid android
ISB Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2006-01-14
Posts: 619
Loc: Gregory, Michigan, USA
I did a double take - at first it looked as if you'd put a double moon in R😱😱N blush


Cheers, Ian

1: G68ADV (croaked), G98DH (also croaked), HD621, MS200 + Syles SL-S/PDIF, MD600 (2*4TB), , QNAP 469L (4*3TB), Mac Mini, Carver A-705x, Martin Logan Aerius
2: 818v3, Aragon 8008x3, Aerial 10T's
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