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#277503 - 2018-06-25 14:56 Roon directly connected to ID41 (without a switch)
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 215
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
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Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 215
Loc: Hampshire, UK
I was wondering if anyone had tried using a direct ethernet connection from Roon to a Meridian ID41 card (using a second ethernet connection from Roon to connect to the main network)?

While this improves the system's imaging, I've been having issues making this work consistently where Roon can't always find the ID41 (despite the lights flashing merrily away to indicate the ethernet system is working).

At first I assumed this was a Roon issue, but given the problems some people have found with making the ID41 work with certain ethernet switches, I'm now wondering if this is likely to be a Meridian issue, and possibly not one that can be fixed.



DSP7200SE's, 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon (original version)
[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#277506 - 2018-06-25 17:41 Re: Roon directly connected to ID41 (without a switch) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,568
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,568
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
What you are attempting is far from plug and play. For instance, what are you running/configured on Roon box to ensure that network packets go to the correct NIC depending on its intended route/destination and are not lost?

I suspect it’s neither a Roon nor Meridian issue, but a quite advanced network issue.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#277507 - 2018-06-25 18:13 Re: Roon directly connected to ID41 (without a switch) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 215
Jeremy A-H Offline
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 215
Loc: Hampshire, UK
It's pretty straightforward, assuming some knowledge of network addressing.

The home office network (which Roon sits on for control) is configured to use the network 10.0.0.0/21, and the ID41 and secondary ethernet port on Roon uses a different subnet 10.0.8.0/21.

The only traffic the ID41 should see is the music data coming from Roon.


DSP7200SE's, 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon (original version)
[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#277508 - 2018-06-25 18:22 Re: Roon directly connected to ID41 (without a switch) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,568
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,568
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
I don't know much about Roon networking, but what NIC(s) is it bound to? If its not bound to both, and no routing is going on, then it’s only going to see home network, or ID4x. It’s possibly similar to what happens with QNAP devices where Sooloos must be physically connected to the correct eth port. Unless you are routing with the Roon box, just because you put a packet out to home network doesn't mean that it will get there if you are only bound to other NIC - unless you are routing somewhere (internally?) or Roon is bound to both ports.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#277509 - 2018-06-25 19:11 Re: Roon directly connected to ID41 (without a switch) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,557
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
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Loc: Europe
Hi Ian

Maybe this Roon post will help explain a little more.

Russ


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#277510 - 2018-06-25 19:20 Re: Roon directly connected to ID41 (without a switch) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,470
ncpl Offline
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ncpl Offline

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Search the Roon forum. I am pretty sure someone has it working there.

Ah...Ratbert beat me to it....


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
Edited by ncpl; 2018-06-25 19:20.
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#277511 - 2018-06-25 19:27 Re: Roon directly connected to ID41 (without a switch) [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,557
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
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Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Europe
Bored by Portugal v Iran even though it is in UHD cool so looked it up.


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#277514 - 2018-06-25 21:24 Re: Roon directly connected to ID41 (without a switch) [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 215
Jeremy A-H Offline
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Jeremy A-H Offline
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Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 215
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Thanks for the link.

The setup described by Danny is the one I have been using (with the exception that he has discovered that the IP range 5.1.x.x is now in use and he no longer recommends this range).

Jeremy


DSP7200SE's, 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon (original version)
[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#277516 - 2018-06-25 21:28 Re: Roon directly connected to ID41 (without a switch) [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,568
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,568
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
OK, I scanned through that and it does not give all the answers as the device in question uses a different protocol than Sooloos/ID4x uses.

Knowing how Sooloos works, unless someone can confirm that Roon binds on all network cards, or, it is internally or externally routed or otherwise to ensure that traffic on one NIC can communicate with another (which probably defeats the point of separating network traffic), then I cannot see that you can guarantee that Roon will be listening to the multicast discovery beacons that the ID4x card will be transmitting and thus will not be reliably detecting that a Sooloos endpoint is present. This is different to the scenario to that posted in the link provided due to the protocols involved.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#277517 - 2018-06-25 21:40 Re: Roon directly connected to ID41 (without a switch) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 215
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 215
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted By Ian
I don't know much about Roon networking, but what NIC(s) is it bound to? If its not bound to both, and no routing is going on, then its only going to see home network, or ID4x.
One NIC in the Roon server is bound to the main network and the other NIC in the Roon server is bound to the ID41. I would imagine that Roon would scan both networks and find the ID41 on one of them. Linux should automatically route the ID41 music to that interface (based on its IP address), while still listening out for traffic on the other interface connected to the main network.

Originally Posted By Ian
Its possibly similar to what happens with QNAP devices where Sooloos must be physically connected to the correct eth port.
Agreed. While Roon is bound to both ports, it is entirely possible that Roon expects the ID41 to be on a specific NIC.


DSP7200SE's, 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon (original version)
[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#277518 - 2018-06-25 21:48 Re: Roon directly connected to ID41 (without a switch) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 215
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 215
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted By Ian
Knowing how Sooloos works, unless someone can confirm that Roon binds on all network cards, or, it is internally or externally routed
Our posts crossed and I think we are thinking along similar lines. Roon ROCK will bind to all configured network cards according to Danny (and confirmed by my own tests working intermittently). I think the routing of traffic should be internally routed to the correct NIC by the OS, but that doesn't mean Roon necessarily works this way.

The advantage of separating the network traffic to my mind is too fold:

a) There is less traffic for the server to respond to;
b) Perhaps more importantly, you could use a high quality LAN card which creates less EMI noise than a normal ethernet switch would


DSP7200SE's, 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon (original version)
[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
Top
#277519 - 2018-06-26 05:05 Re: Roon directly connected to ID41 (without a switch) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,568
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,568
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Typically, multicast traffic will not be routed unless specifically enabled - it may not even be possible to route it with most routers, so it is likely that, at least by default, multicast discovery packets are unlikely to be routed internally by the OS. However, if ROCK is bridging the ports, then you should effectively get mirroring of the multicast packets.

But if the Roon software (not just the ROCK OS) does indeed bind to all NICs, then this should not be a problem - you can check with ROCK equivalent of netstat to see bound ports - multicast UDP protocol typically with IP address starting iirc 224. If you don't see these listed, then there is your problem - Roon software is not listening for the ID4x discovery beacons so it won't know that your endpoint is there. This is an application thing so is down to how it is coded in Roon - sometimes an application will bind specifically to a NIC or sometimes it will be pot luck what NIC it listens on as the OS will assign the NIC effectively at random - so you may well get intermittent behaviour.

If the Roon software does indeed bind to all configured NICs, this kind of defeats your (a) argument as Roon would be listening to similar amounts of traffic, just spread across multiple NICs. Whilst playing music, I doubt there is much other traffic on the Server NICs other than that needed for audio - unless of course that the Roon server is being used for other things.

As for (b), this is similar to what Meridian try with their ID4x card, which is 10Mbs only - most of the EMI would be from Gb speeds on the line. This works as a switch would keep the ID4x link at 10Mbs, keeping Gb speed traffic out of the ID4x card and reducing EMI. Of course, the same switch would also keep unnecessary traffic out of the ID4x. I get the bit about choice of NIC/LAN card as EMI is dark magic, but wouldn't a far simpler solution be a network isolator such as GISO (?) that was discussed on here several years back. That way, you would keep the network standard.



Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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