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#277252 - 2018-06-18 23:00 Bad Luck
Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 453
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 453
Loc: New Jersey, USA
I returned from a business trip to find that both drives on my MC600 failed. The RAID array is supposed to minimize this, and both were fine before I left. I guess it is just bad luck that they would both fail at around the same time.

I will remove and order replacements tonight.


Theater: G68, G98DH, DSP6k, DSP55kC, SW1600x2, DSP55k, Plasma, (Zone 2)
Living room: DSP5k, DSP52kC, SW1600, G68, Sooloos MC600 (Zone 1)
Bedroom: M80
office: SACD, 861v4, DSP6k (Zone 3)
Storage: P350Ws, G55s, M33s, DSP33s, DSP5k, 501, 518, 561
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#277253 - 2018-06-18 23:07 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Jdb-si]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,476
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,476
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
I hope you had a backup.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#277256 - 2018-06-19 02:28 Re: Bad Luck [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 453
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 453
Loc: New Jersey, USA
I have a back-up from several months ago. Will lose some music and learned to back up more frequently the hard way wink

I pulled out one of the drives this evening, a Seagate ST2000DL003, and the exact same drive can be purchased. This model has pretty good reviews and it looks like it was released around 2011. Can any internal hard drive that fits work here? Any thoughts on buying a newer model or different brand? I don't need more than 2TB for my music collection.

Thanks for any advice!
John


Theater: G68, G98DH, DSP6k, DSP55kC, SW1600x2, DSP55k, Plasma, (Zone 2)
Living room: DSP5k, DSP52kC, SW1600, G68, Sooloos MC600 (Zone 1)
Bedroom: M80
office: SACD, 861v4, DSP6k (Zone 3)
Storage: P350Ws, G55s, M33s, DSP33s, DSP5k, 501, 518, 561
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#277268 - 2018-06-19 09:30 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Jdb-si]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,476
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,476
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
There will be many opinions on this. I tend to use Western Digital Red drives..


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

Edited by CMB Integrations - Bruce; 2018-06-19 15:58.
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#277298 - 2018-06-19 14:35 Re: Bad Luck [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2009-06-25
Posts: 864
DuncanBudd Offline
Pan-dimensional being
DuncanBudd Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2009-06-25
Posts: 864
Loc: West London, UK
I use WD Red too in my QNAP.


Regards,
(Another) Duncan
Main: DSP6k, HD621, Oppo93, PS3+4, Apple TV, Chromecast, FireTV v1, Panasonic P50ST60
Kitchen: M80 + Amazon Echo Dot
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#277299 - 2018-06-19 14:50 Re: Bad Luck [Re: DuncanBudd]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,303
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,303
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I use the Seagate Ironwolf 10TB now.

Before that the HItachi HGST 4TB 7200rpm disks. Both have been very reliable. Probably used 1TB+ capacities from IBM/Hitachi HGST 7200rpm drives for last 10 years without hiccups.

Was a bit reluctant to go Seagate Ironwolf but they are ok, some have complained about a whining sound. I took them now as they were cheap, supposed to be 7200rpm and "supported" with an app in Synology NAS.


Future 861 MQA/24-192 system upgrade owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, Apple-TV 4K with nFuse 5, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> UHD722 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
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#277301 - 2018-06-19 14:54 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,557
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Europe
I prefer WD red, the 5400 spin speed generates less heat and there is no observable performance deficit over 7200rpm disks. Heat is the enemy especially in an always on NAS, as an aside I would suggest only using 5400/5900 spin speed disks in MD/MC600’s and TwinStores.


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#277302 - 2018-06-19 14:56 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2007-11-23
Posts: 517
Greg Wright Offline
Paranoid android
Greg Wright Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2007-11-23
Posts: 517
Loc: Surrey, UK
I would be slightly concerned that 2 failed at the same time.

This happened on my TwinStore and it turned out the RAID controller had failed.

Are you sure its definitely drive failure?

Cheers
Greg


M owner since '97
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#277306 - 2018-06-19 15:30 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Greg Wright]
Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 453
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 453
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Thanks for all the replies. Not sure of anything beyond the disc drive failures. Both lights on the front panel were on when I got home and I tried Control:PC and the library was empty.

How would I determine if the RAID controller failed?


Theater: G68, G98DH, DSP6k, DSP55kC, SW1600x2, DSP55k, Plasma, (Zone 2)
Living room: DSP5k, DSP52kC, SW1600, G68, Sooloos MC600 (Zone 1)
Bedroom: M80
office: SACD, 861v4, DSP6k (Zone 3)
Storage: P350Ws, G55s, M33s, DSP33s, DSP5k, 501, 518, 561
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#277315 - 2018-06-19 16:52 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Jdb-si]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,470
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,470
Loc: Surrey, UK
I would try and check that it is not the MD600 itself. The HDD May be fine.

Quite odd that both HDD fail together.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#277316 - 2018-06-19 16:54 Re: Bad Luck [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,557
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Europe
Nick

It’s an MC600, not sure how the NAS part integrates with the 6 zones?


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#277338 - 2018-06-19 19:58 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,470
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,470
Loc: Surrey, UK
Oops... typo... honest.

Same applies though, very unusual.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#277348 - 2018-06-20 06:12 Re: Bad Luck [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 5,389
Ludwig Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ludwig Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 5,389
Loc: Europe
It maybe too late, but I once had a disc in my MD600 fail, and the unit showed both failure lights. I probably did something to get it in that state, but I managed to rebuild the data from one of the discs, despite both lights having showed.

You might try each drive separately. YMMV.


Ex-moderator
Sitting room: 818v3, 8kSE
Office: dCS Rossini DAC/Clock, Stax SRM-T1, Stax SR404LE
TV room: HD621, 518, D33
Kitchen: MS200, Genelec 6010 actives
Server: Roon/NUC/Touchscreen

Oldest audio file: 1889 Edison cylinder
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#277389 - 2018-06-20 19:22 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Ludwig]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 214
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 214
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Speaking from experience, two discs can fail very close in time to each other, if they've come from the same batch. This is especially true if they don't get much cooling.

It's one reason it's a good idea to buy drives from completely different batches, if possible.


DSP7200SE's, 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3 & Typhon (original version)
[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#277392 - 2018-06-20 21:11 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 453
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 453
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Thanks for all the suggestions.

I hope to have an update on the status this weekend.


Theater: G68, G98DH, DSP6k, DSP55kC, SW1600x2, DSP55k, Plasma, (Zone 2)
Living room: DSP5k, DSP52kC, SW1600, G68, Sooloos MC600 (Zone 1)
Bedroom: M80
office: SACD, 861v4, DSP6k (Zone 3)
Storage: P350Ws, G55s, M33s, DSP33s, DSP5k, 501, 518, 561
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#277400 - 2018-06-21 08:33 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Jdb-si]
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 616
Richard W Offline
Paranoid android
Richard W Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 616
Loc: North of Scotland
I had a similar experience to Ludwig, both lights showing and the unit sat doing nothing but flashing lights, the pattern didn't fit the user manual description. Ultimately it was a single drive that completely failed. Helpfully the unit will run with just a single drive. I replaced both drives at the same time. I rebuilt one drive from my (thankfully recent) back-up as it wouldn't rebuild from the original, non failed disk. The second new drive did rebuild from the good new drive when installed so maybe the old "good" drive also had some problems. Thanks to Ratbert for the help and advice at the time.

As has been pointed out the lack of any useful drive health type utilities on the MD600 is a problem. I do appreciate it's simplicity most of the time. I seem to spend more time tinkering and checking the status of my microserver and NAS back-up drives than I do actually using them......

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#277406 - 2018-06-21 12:26 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Richard W]
Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,273
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,273
Loc: Midlands, UK
Had a similar problem on more than one occasion, however Ratbert talked me through successful resolutions when problems arose.

My MD600 showed failed drives but not simultaneously, after hard reboot the opposite (L or R) reported failed condition.

Seagate tools easily identified the failed disc and a new disc inserted rectified the problem.

Most disconcerting at the time, which just confirms the poor diagnostics of the MD600. I have no faith in what the LED display shows.

Hector


AV: Thorens TD160B, SME, ShureV15MK2, 500, 598, 861v4, DSP7200.1LR, DSP3300HC Samsung UE55, SkyHD.
DINING: MS600, AC200, DSP5200SLLR.
STUDY 504, SB Touch, 2x MD600, C15, 808.6, 5200SE, Mac & PC, Explorer v1, Prime+PS Grado GS1000i
HORIZONTAL: M80, MS200, Red Rose Spirit + Sonus Faber Toys
A capella to Zydeco
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#277407 - 2018-06-21 14:13 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Hector]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,568
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,568
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
I thought that the health of those things were actively monitored by mothership to pre-empt any failure whistle


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#277410 - 2018-06-21 14:47 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,557
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Europe
laugh laugh laugh


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#277418 - 2018-06-22 05:44 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2016-02-22
Posts: 34
Gerard Offline
Harmless
Gerard Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2016-02-22
Posts: 34
Loc: High River, Alberta, Canada
It seems everyone has a favourite Hard Drive, in speaking with an IT manager for a very large company who uses many multiples of these units, he suggests only using the ones certified for 'Enterprise' as the manufacturers are much more fearful of the backlash from companies using their products then from consumers if there is failure, apparently the drives are more rigorously tested and have longer life spans.

It appears there is a significant range in the capacity size of Hard Drives that everyone is using, is there any consensus on the capacity capability of MD600 or TwinStores?

Gerard.


Home Theater - LG 4K C7, HD 621, G61RSL, oppo 203, MS600, DSP3100 L & R, 2x3100's centers and 4 DSP33's surrounds. 2 x REL S3 SHO and 2 x REL habitat1 subwoofers.

Music & TV, Samsung UHD 55", oppo 203, HD621, G68D, Sooloos 15, 588, M10, M 20's, m33's,

MD600, 2 x Twinstores..
Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata power cables.
Monster AVS 2000
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#277447 - 2018-06-23 17:04 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Gerard]
Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,010
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,010
Loc: London, England
MD600 and TwinStore can take pretty much any commercial hard drive (obviously SATA, not M.2).

It was the older Ensemble that was limited to 2TB.


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#277450 - 2018-06-23 18:46 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Jdb-si]
Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 453
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 453
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Update:

Thanks to all for the helpful replies and PMs on this (especially Russ). I removed the hard drives individually and determined that only one had failed. Thanks for the heads up that the indicator lights are not reliable, and that the store will operate on only one disc- this was indeed a good suggestion.

The disk in bay two failed. When this bad disc was removed, I could once again access my library and Sooloos behaved normally (using only the disc in bay one). When I did the reverse experiment, my library was empty, as was the problem I observed when I returned from my trip. Not entirely sure why only one failed drive would result in an empty library and both lights on?

I replaced the bad drive with a new WD Red as suggested here, and after the installation and mirroring, both lights are off and system is operating normally. I just completed a fresh back-up using the Control:PC Wizard.

I tested the bad drive using Seatools and failed the first test! Clearly a bad drive. I bought two of the WD drives when I placed my order, and am thinking about proactively replacing the other drive soon.

Thanks again to everyone!
John


Theater: G68, G98DH, DSP6k, DSP55kC, SW1600x2, DSP55k, Plasma, (Zone 2)
Living room: DSP5k, DSP52kC, SW1600, G68, Sooloos MC600 (Zone 1)
Bedroom: M80
office: SACD, 861v4, DSP6k (Zone 3)
Storage: P350Ws, G55s, M33s, DSP33s, DSP5k, 501, 518, 561
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#277451 - 2018-06-23 19:58 Re: Bad Luck [Re: Jdb-si]
Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,010
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,010
Loc: London, England
John,

That is very good news.


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#277475 - 2018-06-24 21:52 Re: Bad Luck [Re: dpstjp]
Registered: 2009-06-25
Posts: 864
DuncanBudd Offline
Pan-dimensional being
DuncanBudd Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2009-06-25
Posts: 864
Loc: West London, UK
Indeed - great news.
A tip I once read re NAS drives: never buy more than one at a time. If there is a faulty batch, you could be buying into it. if you buy different brands or the same one but from different suppliers and/or at different times then you are lowering your risk of *both* being faulty. Of course, there may be a slightly higher risk that you'll get *one* faulty one, as you're hitting multiple batches, but that's easier to cope with.


Regards,
(Another) Duncan
Main: DSP6k, HD621, Oppo93, PS3+4, Apple TV, Chromecast, FireTV v1, Panasonic P50ST60
Kitchen: M80 + Amazon Echo Dot
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