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#275893 - 2018-05-09 20:53 Third party room Correction Solutions
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
Loc: South UK
Wondered if anyone has found a 3rd party RC solution which would allow correction of all sources through 818/DSPs (and possibly through a second system which would be bi-amped with active crossovers and sub integration).

I can use Accourate, or similar, through Roon for my primary music source. However, half of my system use is DVD/Bluray, Sky TV, Netflix, etc., so some of this can't be routed through a PC to my knowledge.

Is there a solution to use Accourate/Audiolense, etc., in this kind of setup, or am I automatically tied to trying to find a hardware box, or boxes, which might work (DEQX, Trinnov, etc.)?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#275899 - 2018-05-10 06:39 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
VirusKiller Offline
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VirusKiller Offline
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Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
In a legacy 96/24 world, the DDRC-22D from MiniDSP after the 818 would be the way to go if MHR between 818 and DSPs can be turned off. If it can't be turned off, then it would need to be before the 818 (and you lose your ID40/41).

With MQA in the equation, I would say no, there is nothing for ALL sources.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#275900 - 2018-05-10 08:07 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 701
Chris G Offline
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Chris G Offline
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Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 701
Loc: Newbury, UK
22D is a good piece of kit. The cheaper path would be the MiniDSP Nanodigi deployed in the same way as the 22D. More manual approach required with REW but the results can be better as you have more fine grained control. I use two of these to correct LCR for all sources.


Chris
Living Rm: 568.2 | 2xDSP3100
  AV Room: G61R | 4xD5K | D5KC | USC15 - iNuke6K | 2xEarthquake MQB-1 | JVC HD350 & React3 2.35:1
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#275901 - 2018-05-10 08:39 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 674
Albert Offline
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Albert Offline
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Posts: 674
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RobertW did a lot of search on this subject


HT: Audiocom Oppo203 signature with Vanity HD/HD621 861v8, DSP6Ks(LCR), DSP5200.1
Revel b112 b110 AntimodeX4 JVCx790
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#275902 - 2018-05-10 09:06 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Albert]
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3dit0r Offline
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3dit0r Offline
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Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
Loc: South UK
Thanks guys.

OK, I think perhaps it might be best to explore a two-pronged approach if I go down this route, then - e.g.

- Roon/Accourate for the ID41 input (which is 99% of my current music source)
- A separate MiniDSP-type solution between the Oppo and 818 for the A/V material (I wouldn't put this between the 818/7200s as I would lose SL, EBA, MQA, etc. on all sources). I use coax out from Oppo into 818 so I guess that should work OK?

Has anyone heard the MiniDSP DDRC-22D, or any of the MiniDSP Dirac solutions? Just wondering if they are of sufficient quality to match a relatively high-end system, or will I lose as much as I might gain here?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#275903 - 2018-05-10 09:08 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Albert]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
3dit0r Offline
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Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
Loc: South UK
Albert - you have an Antimode X4! Never actually encountered anyone who has one, nor any reviews; how are you getting on with it?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#275907 - 2018-05-10 10:57 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 701
Chris G Offline
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Chris G Offline
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Registered: 2004-01-20
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Loc: Newbury, UK
Yes, I've used both the 22D and my current Nanodigi. The 22D introduces slightly more latency which caused havoc with integrating my analogue sub. The nanodigi introduces virtually no latency at all. Both sounded pretty transparent to me, although I think I preferred the Nano on balance because it doesn't use a zillion filters that I don't really need. The Dirac solution is probably really good if you just have 2 speakers or use their more comprehensive 8 channel solutions, but I found it much too much effort to integrate into 5 DSPs and 1 analogue sub. I gave up in the end. I also didn't think it brought enough to the party to justify its cost. The nanodigi, on the other hand, was effortless by comparison. A few REW sweeps, input the filters, job done.


Chris
Living Rm: 568.2 | 2xDSP3100
  AV Room: G61R | 4xD5K | D5KC | USC15 - iNuke6K | 2xEarthquake MQB-1 | JVC HD350 & React3 2.35:1
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#275923 - 2018-05-11 08:16 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Chris G]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 657
Rodney Gold Offline
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Rodney Gold Offline
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A Trinnov would be your best solution ... pricey tho, but way better than Dirac, acourate etc. Trinnov is a completely different animal (I have used Sigtech, Room Perfect, Acourate, Brute FIR, Minidsp Open DRC, Minidsp Dirac, Behringer, TACT, Dspeaker, etc.)

For a multichannel system, the Altitude 16 is the unit to go for.
After the Trinnov, Dirac was the best of the rest. I was using the DDRC 22 prior to my buying the Trinnov.


Roon/Tidal, SBT, Trinnov ST2 , Twin Devialet D premiers, Vivid Audio Giya G1 Spirits, dedicated and treated room.
Meridian gear: 568.2mm and DSP5000's acting as TV speakers.
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#275924 - 2018-05-11 08:48 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Rodney Gold]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
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Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
Loc: South UK
Thanks guys.

Aren’t Meridian sort of partnered with Trinnov for multichannel in some way now?

Rodney - this would be for 2-channel initially, but then possibly adding a sub or two further down the line, would the Alititude 16 still be the unit to consider?

Did you experience latency with the DDRC 22 with Dirac, as this is to correct for home theatre?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#275925 - 2018-05-11 09:06 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Rodney Gold]
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,462
Cliff. Offline
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Cliff. Offline
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Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,462
Loc: South Wiltshire, UK
I agree with Rodney, Trinnov room correction is something really special.

I think for Meridian system integration you have to go with the Altitude 32. However, it will be a long time before the 16 model supports digital outputs and if you start using active cross-overs you are going to run out of channels. Also, the 16 is not upgradable and doesn’t support 192kHz natively (unlike the 32).


Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, Vero 4k, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
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#275926 - 2018-05-11 09:43 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 657
Rodney Gold Offline
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Rodney Gold Offline
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Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
For a 2 channel system, either the ST2 hifi or the Amethyst is the unit to go for ... both more or less identical in correction but the Amethyst has more inputs/outputs, a small screen, physical remote control and is Roon ready (Roon streams directly to it)

I picked up a used ST2 for EU3600 and Amethysts go for EU6k used... both are 4 channel, so 2x mains and 2x subs is fine.

Trinnov has latency in its processing, about 0.5sec all in, which is not consequential for me ... I never used DRC in a HT system so can’t comment on its or DIRACs latency.

The Trinnov is a snap to use compared to DIRAC in terms of measuring, and if you accept its 5 variants of correction it’s a set and forget... HOWEVER it is 1000x more configurable and if you want you can delve into the nitty gritty of the corrections and tune them to exactly your taste.

I actually have DIRAC and TRINNOV correction running side by side so can AB them.

Dirac has a far more diffuse sound, slightly better bass correction but the Trinnov which corrects phase, amplitude, group delay and impulse has an uncanny 3D holographic image formation, you can more easily suspend belief that the performance/performers are "there" ... switching between the 2 is educational ... there is no small difference, it’s huge ...Trinnov tends to make each performance an experience, DIRAC makes the music sound nice...


Roon/Tidal, SBT, Trinnov ST2 , Twin Devialet D premiers, Vivid Audio Giya G1 Spirits, dedicated and treated room.
Meridian gear: 568.2mm and DSP5000's acting as TV speakers.
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#275927 - 2018-05-11 10:13 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 674
Albert Offline
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Albert Offline
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Registered: 2012-10-22
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Loc: Shanghai, China
Yes, the new X4 has many inputs and outputs, and Dspeaker is still working on the fireware, more features will be added to it

So far I only use it for subs, haven't tried the 2.2 feature because I suspect it will introduce jitter to my DSP?

Even for subs I think it worth the money much much better than DIRAC.I also bought a 88D with Dirac,i put it between Vanity HD and 861, I feel sound was coloured a little bit,not so sure about that because I sold it immediately due to poor support for multi subs.


HT: Audiocom Oppo203 signature with Vanity HD/HD621 861v8, DSP6Ks(LCR), DSP5200.1
Revel b112 b110 AntimodeX4 JVCx790
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#275928 - 2018-05-11 10:27 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Albert]
Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 674
Albert Offline
Paranoid android
Albert Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 674
Loc: Shanghai, China
What Dirac do to the sub(LFE) is just simply flatten the curve, the test volume is not loud, so it might seam look flat in low volume, but with the volume raise it could be disaster.

For multi subs,dirac process all subs as one.


HT: Audiocom Oppo203 signature with Vanity HD/HD621 861v8, DSP6Ks(LCR), DSP5200.1
Revel b112 b110 AntimodeX4 JVCx790
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#275931 - 2018-05-11 11:47 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Albert]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 657
Rodney Gold Offline
Paranoid android
Rodney Gold Offline
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Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 657
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
I integrated a swarm of subs (4x SVS SB13 Ultras) with my Giya G1's before I upgraded to the G1 spirits. It was more to smooth the room response than for added bass.

If you only want to correct/integrate subs or low bass under 200Hz, then a simple processor like the $499 4x10HD (which is what I used) or the $200 2x4HD will work ... you really don't need fancy/expensive processors, 10 bands of parametric EQ/crossover/delay/polarity/level will do as bass correction is minimum phase. You only need IIR filters... not FIR.

I can just tell you one thing, that NONE of the DRC systems are the silver bullet... they will not make a rubbish room sound great ... you have to apply physical treatment and only when that avenue is exhausted .. .then use DRC to clean it all up...


Roon/Tidal, SBT, Trinnov ST2 , Twin Devialet D premiers, Vivid Audio Giya G1 Spirits, dedicated and treated room.
Meridian gear: 568.2mm and DSP5000's acting as TV speakers.
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#275933 - 2018-05-11 12:20 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Rodney Gold]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,335
CMB Integrations - Bruce Online content
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Online content
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,335
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
Excellent advice on the room treatment.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Theta Digital Cassablanca 4, 218, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 600S, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

Crestron control and multi room audio via Meridian 258 amplifiers.
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#275938 - 2018-05-11 13:00 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,701
Carl Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Online content


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,701
Loc: Central England, UK
+1


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#275943 - 2018-05-11 13:35 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Rodney Gold]
Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 674
Albert Offline
Paranoid android
Albert Offline
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Posts: 674
Loc: Shanghai, China
100%ly agree.


HT: Audiocom Oppo203 signature with Vanity HD/HD621 861v8, DSP6Ks(LCR), DSP5200.1
Revel b112 b110 AntimodeX4 JVCx790
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#275945 - 2018-05-11 13:57 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Albert]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
Loc: South UK
I agree too, I already have room treatments in place, although this room will never be ideal. Main problem area is in the bass and with low frequency issues needing such large traps where big peaks and nulls occur, there is only a certain level of bass trapping which will ever be domestically acceptable/practical. MRC would be ideal, but for whatever reason Meridian aren't inclined to introduce this on 2-channel endpoints.

Having seen the cost of the Trinnov units, I think it would make sense for me to try a more cost effective setup for the H/T correction right now and use one of the other solutions over Roon for the audio only correction (which preserves EBA and hopefully soon MQA). If I'm going to invest that much, I might as well hold off and see when Meridian release an 861v9 so that a more expensive the solution is fully integrated with everything and fully compatible with DSPs, MQA, EBA, etc...

Rodney, would EQ-ing only subs be possible in a modern DSP setup, including EBA (which I find very beneficial) or is this a dead-end?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#275946 - 2018-05-11 13:59 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Albert]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
Loc: South UK
Originally Posted By Albert
Yes, the new X4 has many inputs and outputs, and Dspeaker is still working on the fireware, more features will be added to it

So far I only use it for subs, haven't tried the 2.2 feature because I suspect it will introduce jitter to my DSP?

Even for subs I think it worth the money much much better than DIRAC.I also bought a 88D with Dirac,i put it between Vanity HD and 861, I feel sound was coloured a little bit,not so sure about that because I sold it immediately due to poor support for multi subs.
Thanks, interesting, so little information out there about the X4.

I guess it would work well for subs only in a legacy setup without EBA, do you think it helps?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#275948 - 2018-05-11 14:35 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Chris G]
Registered: 2010-08-08
Posts: 439
Jeje Offline
Paranoid android
Jeje Offline
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Registered: 2010-08-08
Posts: 439
Loc: New York City, NY, USA
Hi Chris, back to the nanoDIGI...

I have a Samsung TV with toslink out, my only source (and maybe a MC200). I'd like to connect it to a Meridian 5.1 DSP system: DSP420 LCR, SW5500 sub and DSP33 rears. Can I get id of the 568mm.2 and use the nanoDIGI intead? How would the COM work with the nanoDIGI?

Thanks


Jerome
Music: MC200 -> MS600 -> G68D -> DSP8.2k + DSP5200HC front / DSP33 Rears
Movies: NAS -> Oppo BDP-93 -> HD621 -> G68D -> DSP8.2k + DSP5200HC front / DSP33 Rears
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#275949 - 2018-05-11 14:40 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Jeje]
Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 701
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 701
Loc: Newbury, UK
You'd still need the 568.2 to connect and route the various audio streams to all your speakers. The nanodigi doesn't decode DD/DTS, not even prologic.


Chris
Living Rm: 568.2 | 2xDSP3100
  AV Room: G61R | 4xD5K | D5KC | USC15 - iNuke6K | 2xEarthquake MQB-1 | JVC HD350 & React3 2.35:1
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#275950 - 2018-05-11 14:43 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Chris G]
Registered: 2010-08-08
Posts: 439
Jeje Offline
Paranoid android
Jeje Offline
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Registered: 2010-08-08
Posts: 439
Loc: New York City, NY, USA
I see, thank you for the clarification. So it would only add room correction to the 568, right?


Jerome
Music: MC200 -> MS600 -> G68D -> DSP8.2k + DSP5200HC front / DSP33 Rears
Movies: NAS -> Oppo BDP-93 -> HD621 -> G68D -> DSP8.2k + DSP5200HC front / DSP33 Rears
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#275952 - 2018-05-11 16:24 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Jeje]
Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 701
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 701
Loc: Newbury, UK
Yes, and you'd want to hook it up between the 568 and relevant DSP speakers, rather than source to 568. That will mean disabling MHR if you're using that but I haven't heard any downsides from doing that myself.


Chris
Living Rm: 568.2 | 2xDSP3100
  AV Room: G61R | 4xD5K | D5KC | USC15 - iNuke6K | 2xEarthquake MQB-1 | JVC HD350 & React3 2.35:1
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#275955 - 2018-05-12 02:09 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 674
Albert Offline
Paranoid android
Albert Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 674
Loc: Shanghai, China
Do you have subwoofer in your setup?


HT: Audiocom Oppo203 signature with Vanity HD/HD621 861v8, DSP6Ks(LCR), DSP5200.1
Revel b112 b110 AntimodeX4 JVCx790
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#275958 - 2018-05-12 08:23 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Albert]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
Loc: South UK
Albert,

Do you mean me, or Jeje?

My system doesn’t currently, but I’m considering adding a sub or two as I can’t move to 8Ks right now. This is part (but only part) of why I considered RC again, although it would still improve things without a sub, I’m sure.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#275967 - 2018-05-12 12:48 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 674
Albert Offline
Paranoid android
Albert Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 674
Loc: Shanghai, China
I see, for HT you might need a processor for LFE.


HT: Audiocom Oppo203 signature with Vanity HD/HD621 861v8, DSP6Ks(LCR), DSP5200.1
Revel b112 b110 AntimodeX4 JVCx790
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#276008 - 2018-05-14 11:00 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Albert]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
Loc: South UK
Originally Posted By Albert
I see, for HT you might need a processor for LFE.


This brings up an interesting question - so when using my Oppo BDP-105, I leave all settings at default in terms of mixdown, etc., as per the manual, so that over coax into the 818 I should just be extracting the 2-channel stereo soundtrack. I had assumed this mixed the .1 (LFE) track into this 2-channel and redirects it to the front L/R pair of speakers (which are currently the only speakers in my setup). Is this the case, or is the .1 track lost doing it this way...?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#276009 - 2018-05-14 11:25 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 674
Albert Offline
Paranoid android
Albert Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-10-22
Posts: 674
Loc: Shanghai, China
I am not sure about the answer,but to my ears,the real 0.1 channel sounds much dynamic than the "Bass" which cut from main


HT: Audiocom Oppo203 signature with Vanity HD/HD621 861v8, DSP6Ks(LCR), DSP5200.1
Revel b112 b110 AntimodeX4 JVCx790
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#276011 - 2018-05-14 11:34 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: Albert]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
Loc: South UK
Interesting. Does anyone know the answer to this, please?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#276014 - 2018-05-14 12:23 Re: Third party room Correction Solutions [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 745
Mtns Offline
Paranoid android
Mtns Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 745
Loc: North Carolina, USA
The .1 is derived from a full stereo signal by crossover or in the split to multichannel in my way of thinking. No need to add it back in.


James
NC1: 861v4+ID40, 218, MS200 (to outdoors), DSP8000SE (upgraded). 5500VC, 5500s, Hsu Research ULS15x2, DirecTV, Oppo BD103, QNAP251, Roon
NC2-see FL 2 with Triad Silver Speakers

FL1: G61R, 218, DSP8000SEs, 5500HC, DSP6000s, MS600, DirecTv, Oppo BD103, QNAP469, Roon
FL2: Marantz 7005, M60s, M60C, M33s, Oppo BDP-93, MS200, Roon
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