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#275685 - 2018-05-03 16:01 Roon 1.5 is here, c/w MQA software decoding
Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 301
Mr_Sukebe Offline
Hitchhiker
Mr_Sukebe Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 301
Loc: Sutton, Surrey, UK
As per the title, surprised that there's not already a post on it.


861v4/ID40/LPS, HD621, Roon, Quad Artera, Impulse Ta'us, Rel Storm 3. Explorer 2 with HD600s.
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#275686 - 2018-05-03 16:03 Re: Roon 1.5 is here, c/w MQA software decoding [Re: Mr_Sukebe]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,546
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,546
Loc: Europe
A stellar update isn’t it.


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#275690 - 2018-05-03 16:55 Re: Roon 1.5 is here, c/w MQA software decoding [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 776
Mtns Offline
Paranoid android
Mtns Offline
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Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 776
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Go to the Roon site and look at the 1.5 thread there. At the beginning of the thread is a line of questioning and answers which will be illuminating to say the least.

Anders Vinberg, longtime member here and confessed Microsoft affiliate, asked questions from a Full Meridian SE Speaker/Theatre Owner point of view. A link to that thread as a separate topic here (or in the best spot/Sub forum by some one technologically more gifted than I) would be useful.

I have only read the first 10 or so posts. It will be over a hundred by now. Exciting news about MQA unfolding, old Sooloos endpoints passing MQA on, room correction, etc.


James
NC1: 861v4+ID40, 218, MS200 (to outdoors), DSP8000SE (upgraded). 5500VC, 5500s, Hsu Research ULS15x2, DirecTV, Oppo BD103, QNAP251, Roon
NC2-see FL 2 with Triad Silver Speakers

FL1: G61R, 218, DSP8000SEs, 5500HC, DSP6000s, MS600, DirecTv, Oppo BD103, QNAP469, Roon
FL2: Marantz 7005, M60s, M60C, M33s, Oppo BDP-93, MS200, Roon
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#275691 - 2018-05-03 17:05 Re: Roon 1.5 is here, c/w MQA software decoding [Re: Mtns]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,546
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,546
Loc: Europe
Hi James

I posted the link to Anders' thread, the point he was making was that currently with Roon, a Meridian MQA endpoint and SE speakers you have to ensure the Meridian endpoint is doing the MQA decode and not Roon as the SE speakers will not recognise the rendering information in the decoded MQA file if it comes from anywhere other than a Meridian MQA endpoint, apparently this issue is known by Meridian and a fix is being worked on, but no timescales have been given.

Despite Anders' system having the ability to decode and render using the 818v3 and DSP8000SE’s I believe he prefers Roon EQ and room correction and is willing to forego the rendering therefore he does the MQA decode in Roon.

To ensure the endpoint is set to do the decode you go to the device setup page in Roon and then go to show advanced and ensure MQA capabilities is set to decoder and renderer.

Hope that helps?

Russ


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#275692 - 2018-05-03 17:47 Re: Roon 1.5 is here, c/w MQA software decoding [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,408
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,408
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By Ratbert
Despite Anders' system having the ability to decode and render using the 818v3 and DSP8000SE’s I believe he prefers Roon EQ and room correction and is willing to forego the rendering therefore he does the MQA decode in Roon.
As do I: MQA --> Roon decode --> Acourate RC DSP convolution in Roon --> 818v3 --> 8kSE.

Sounds incredible in my small office.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#275698 - 2018-05-03 19:38 Re: Roon 1.5 is here, c/w MQA software decoding [Re: Mtns]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,621
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
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Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,621
Loc: Austria, Europe
Sorry for the basic questions here:

1)
What the difference between decode and rendering for the Meridian devices?
Is decode just a decode of the MQA stream in a particilar device?
And rendering is to use the DSP engine in Roon?

2) What can the ID40 card do now?

3) What can the 218 do now?

I use non SE DSP8000.2 speakers.


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#275699 - 2018-05-03 19:52 Re: Roon 1.5 is here, c/w MQA software decoding [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,408
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,408
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Robert.

Rendering only takes place within an MQA DAC. Your 8k.2s don't have MQA DACs, so rendering is not relevant. Your 218 does have an MQA DAC, but unless you are using its analogue output, again, rendering is not relevant.

What matters is that Roon can perform the first unfold from 1x sample rate "MQA" to 2x sample rate "MQA Core", apply any DSP you like, and send the 2x rate stream to your ID40 or your 218 (or another other Meridian Sooloos endpoint).

With the 218 you can choose to pass-through the 1x MQA stream and let the 218 decode, but it will only output a 2x rate stream to your 861 and/or speakers.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#275701 - 2018-05-03 19:56 Re: Roon 1.5 is here, c/w MQA software decoding [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,546
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,546
Loc: Europe
Hi Robert

Decoding is when an MQA encoded file is identified decoded and the rendering information is extracted, in an 818v3 DSP8000 setup this is what the 818v3 does. In Roon 1.5 this is what has just been enabled and is configurable.

Rendering is the additional information passed to the DSP’s if they are SE’s which allows them to playback the highest available resolution from the file, non SE speakers will not do the rendering the negotiation for this takes place between the 818v3 and the DSP over MHR, the speaker capabilities are shared with the processor and only the applicable data is sent, eg: the processor doesn’t just send the full render file and let the DSP try to make the best of it!

As for analog output the full decode and render is done in the 818v3 and passed to the phono/xlr outputs.

The ID40 is an input card, it does not in itself do MQA, it is the processor that determines that.

The 218 does full MQA decode and render to analog and decode with render information for the DSP if it is an SE over SpeakerLink.

I believe this is correct, apologies if there are any errors?

Russ


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#275708 - 2018-05-03 22:46 Re: Roon 1.5 is here, c/w MQA software decoding [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,621
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,621
Loc: Austria, Europe
Thanks Joel and Russ, it’s now more understandable for me.

ALL these questions below are for DSP only:

Decode with Roon is the first step/process to get the MQA Information?
Rendering is the last process it’s done in the SE speakers?

Software-decode with Roon OR Hardware-decode in the 218?

But there are "only" two steps - decode and rendering?

Reason for asking here is for the 218.
Roon could make the first step with the SW decode, and the 218 can/should render?
(For analogue the 218 can render as Russ say)?

So maybe after the first SW-decode from Roon (not made in the 218 "just" delivered as a decoded MQA stream to the 218 ?? )
then the 218 could do some part of rendering for the non SE speakers as the 218 have the option to select "Renderer only"?

Could that maybe a future option for non-SE speakers?


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#275709 - 2018-05-03 23:23 Re: Roon 1.5 is here, c/w MQA software decoding [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,780
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,780
Loc: Central England, UK
Originally Posted By RobertW
... then the 218 could do some part of rendering for the non SE speakers as the 218 have the option to select "Renderer only"?

Could that maybe a future option for non-SE speakers?
No, MQA rendering is performed in the MQA DAC.

The digital output, by its nature does not have a DAC of course.

If you want MQA rendering with the DSP they must be updated to SE spec.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#275721 - 2018-05-04 10:40 Re: Roon 1.5 is here, c/w MQA software decoding [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 616
Richard W Offline
Paranoid android
Richard W Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 616
Loc: North of Scotland
Stupid question if all the chat about unfolding and rendering has answered it already and I haven't really understood.

Where does Roon 1.5 leave those of us with legacy DSPs? Are we any further forward or has nothing really changed?

Thanks.

Richard

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#275725 - 2018-05-04 11:26 Re: Roon 1.5 is here, c/w MQA software decoding [Re: Richard W]
Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 5,387
Ludwig Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ludwig Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 5,387
Loc: Europe
You’re arguably most of the way there. Roon will decode MQA to 88/96 and send to your legacy Sooloos/DSPs.


Ex-moderator
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