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#275274 - 2018-04-18 19:25 Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening?
Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 228
Frode Offline
Hitchhiker
Frode Offline
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Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 228
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Hi.

When enabling Roon DSP when streaming MQA-files the MQA sign on my speaker disappear. Which is the way it should be. But can someone explain to me what is actually happening?

It is the same file being streamed, right?
Is it decoding/unfolding in the speakers that stops?
What is taking place in the decoding fase of MQA file?

Thanks,
Frode


G65, UHD722, Kii Three, DSP5200HCSE, BO Beolab17, twin Paradigm Persona Subs, MC200, 218, RoonServer on Mac Pro, ADB 5720CDX, Apple-TV4K.
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#275275 - 2018-04-18 19:28 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Frode]
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dpstjp Offline
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dpstjp Offline
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The same file is being streamed but the DSP is messing up the MQA data, and as such your speakers do not know that there is MQA to decode. No unfolding or decoding should take place.


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#275279 - 2018-04-18 20:42 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: dpstjp]
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Frode Offline
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Frode Offline
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Loc: Oslo, Norway
What is taking in the unfolding/decoding part?

I hear difference between 44/16bit version and MQA version. But knocking Roon DSP on/off, I can not say I hear much difference, if any. Is this just me?


G65, UHD722, Kii Three, DSP5200HCSE, BO Beolab17, twin Paradigm Persona Subs, MC200, 218, RoonServer on Mac Pro, ADB 5720CDX, Apple-TV4K.
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#275282 - 2018-04-18 22:26 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: dpstjp]
Registered: 2008-05-23
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Carl Offline
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Carl Offline


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Originally Posted By dpstjp
The same file is being streamed but the DSP is messing up the MQA data, and as such your speakers do not know that there is MQA to decode. No unfolding or decoding should take place.
Not quite, it’s the 218 that performs decoding, the SE DSP’s then render the decoder MQA stream.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#275290 - 2018-04-19 06:53 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Carl]
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dpstjp Offline
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dpstjp Offline
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Carl,

My read of the question was that the Roon DSP has been activated, as such DSP filters etc have been applied to the file by the Roon Core. This means the 218 does not receive the MQA file bitperfect with the MQA metadata intact. I can’t see how the respective decoding and rendering can therefore take place as MQA intended.


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#275292 - 2018-04-19 12:32 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: dpstjp]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,891
Carl Offline
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Hi Dominic,

No argument with that ... My post was to clarify that it’s the 218 not the SE speakers (as you stated in previous post) that performs the MQA decode.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#275297 - 2018-04-19 20:19 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 228
Frode Offline
Hitchhiker
Frode Offline
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Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 228
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Hi Carl,

Does render mean that the SE`s are just passing the MQA-file thru, or are the SE`s adding something to the process?

Cheers,
Frode


G65, UHD722, Kii Three, DSP5200HCSE, BO Beolab17, twin Paradigm Persona Subs, MC200, 218, RoonServer on Mac Pro, ADB 5720CDX, Apple-TV4K.
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#275304 - 2018-04-19 22:38 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Frode]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,891
Carl Offline
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Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,891
Loc: Central England, UK
Consider a MQA file with an original recording sample rate of 192k wrapped within a 48KHz / 24 bit FLAC file.

- Roon (or Sooloos) reads and decodes the FLAC file to PCM (48KHz).

- Roon transports the PCM bit perfect to the 218 (no DSP enabled).

- The 218 detects that it is a MQA stream, and decodes (1st MQA unfold) and outputs at 96KHz stream via SpeakerLink to the SE speakers.

- The SE speakers detect it is an decoded MQA stream and then further unfolds up to the original sample rate, in this case 192K. (Further upsampling to optimise the DAC’s perform May also take place).

Hope this helps,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#275306 - 2018-04-20 06:25 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2004-04-15
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VirusKiller Offline
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Originally Posted By Carl
The SE speakers detect it is an decoded MQA stream
Actually, the SE speakers are told by the controller (218, 818v3, etc.) that it's an MQA Core stream. This is quite an important distinction.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#275307 - 2018-04-20 10:01 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2011-01-25
Posts: 577
bxd Offline
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Loc: Southampton, UK
Hi,
There is an article ( mainly about DRM) in Stereophile that mentions DSP room correction and MQA. It was in the current issue and seems to be up on their website. I’ll let someone else post the link as I can’t quite get the hang of it_ sorry Carl.

Brian


Main: G65, MD600, MS600, 218, HD621, DSP5200SE, DSP5200HCSE, M6 & D1500.
System 2: G91A, MS200, DSP5000 (96/24v1), DSP3300.
Edited by bxd; 2018-04-20 10:09.
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#275308 - 2018-04-20 10:10 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: bxd]
Registered: 2010-12-09
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Ratbert Offline
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Ratbert Offline
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Brian

Is this the Stereophile article you are referring to?

Russ


If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. But if you teach a man to fish he will buy an ugly hat. And if you talk about fish to a starving man then you are a consultant.
—————————————
If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. No use being a fool about it.
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#275309 - 2018-04-20 11:06 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2011-01-25
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bxd Offline
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Loc: Southampton, UK
No, it’s a later one, posted up yesterday


Main: G65, MD600, MS600, 218, HD621, DSP5200SE, DSP5200HCSE, M6 & D1500.
System 2: G91A, MS200, DSP5000 (96/24v1), DSP3300.
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#275310 - 2018-04-20 11:10 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: bxd]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,668
Ratbert Offline
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Loc: Europe
Apologies must be this Stereophile article on MQA, DRM, and Other Four-Letter Words


If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. But if you teach a man to fish he will buy an ugly hat. And if you talk about fish to a starving man then you are a consultant.
—————————————
If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. No use being a fool about it.
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#275311 - 2018-04-20 11:15 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2011-01-25
Posts: 577
bxd Offline
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That’s the one.. Off topic, but I also noticed an old review of the 263/200 CD player back on the 13th Aprilif anyone is interested in that.

Brian


Main: G65, MD600, MS600, 218, HD621, DSP5200SE, DSP5200HCSE, M6 & D1500.
System 2: G91A, MS200, DSP5000 (96/24v1), DSP3300.
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#275312 - 2018-04-20 11:19 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: bxd]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,668
Ratbert Offline
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As discussed Stereophile 263/200 review.

We need to chat regarding posting links wink


If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. But if you teach a man to fish he will buy an ugly hat. And if you talk about fish to a starving man then you are a consultant.
—————————————
If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. No use being a fool about it.
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#275316 - 2018-04-20 13:56 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 228
Frode Offline
Hitchhiker
Frode Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 228
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Carl,

This was enlightening. Thanks.

So, when enabling Roon DSP the SE rendering obviously stops, but will the 218 still do the 1st unfold?

Cheers,
Frode


G65, UHD722, Kii Three, DSP5200HCSE, BO Beolab17, twin Paradigm Persona Subs, MC200, 218, RoonServer on Mac Pro, ADB 5720CDX, Apple-TV4K.
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#275319 - 2018-04-20 17:13 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Frode]
Registered: 2010-02-03
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Mtns Offline
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No.


James
NC1: 861v4+ID40, 218, MS200 (to outdoors), DSP8000SE (upgraded). 5500VC, 5500s, Hsu Research ULS15x2, DirecTV, Oppo BD103, QNAP251, Roon
NC2-see FL 2 with Triad Silver Speakers

FL1: G61R, 218, DSP8000SEs, 5500HC, DSP5000s, DirecTv, Oppo BD103, QNAP469, Roon
FL2: Marantz 7005, M60s, M60C, M33s, Oppo BDP-93, MS200, Roon
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#275320 - 2018-04-20 18:18 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,891
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


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Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,891
Loc: Central England, UK
Originally Posted By VirusKiller
Originally Posted By Carl
The SE speakers detect it is an decoded MQA stream
Actually, the SE speakers are told by the controller (218, 818v3, etc.) that it's an MQA Core stream. This is quite an important distinction.
Yep, and Meridian should rally change that concept so the SE DSP’s can be used with a non-Meridian MQA decoder. However, I omitted to avoid distractions.


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#275700 - 2018-05-03 19:53 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Frode]
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3dit0r Offline
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Originally Posted By Frode
When enabling Roon DSP when streaming MQA-files the MQA sign on my speaker disappear. Which is the way it should be. But can someone explain to me what is actually happening?

It is the same file being streamed, right?
Is it decoding/unfolding in the speakers that stops?
What is taking place in the decoding fase of MQA file?
This may help too - Roon MQA Questions

Post #2 implies that applying DSP should not prevent a further MQA render in theory, it’s a current limitation in Meridian hardware which should be resolvable but no ETA. At least this is how I read it.


818v3, DSP7200.2, HD621, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Room Treatments
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