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#275274 - 2018-04-18 19:25 Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening?
Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 166
Frode Offline
Hitchhiker
Frode Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 166
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Hi.

When enabling Roon DSP when streaming MQA-files the MQA sign on my speaker disappear. Which is the way it should be. But can someone explain to me what is actually happening?

It is the same file being streamed, right?
Is it decoding/unfolding in the speakers that stops?
What is taking place in the decoding fase of MQA file?

Thanks,
Frode


G65, UHD722, DSP7200SE, DSP5200HCSE, DSP5200SE, MC200, 218, RoonServer on Mac, twin Paradigm Persona Subs.
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#275275 - 2018-04-18 19:28 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Frode]
Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 3,992
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
dpstjp Offline
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Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 3,992
Loc: London, England
The same file is being streamed but the DSP is messing up the MQA data, and as such your speakers do not know that there is MQA to decode. No unfolding or decoding should take place.


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#275279 - 2018-04-18 20:42 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: dpstjp]
Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 166
Frode Offline
Hitchhiker
Frode Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 166
Loc: Oslo, Norway
What is taking in the unfolding/decoding part?

I hear difference between 44/16bit version and MQA version. But knocking Roon DSP on/off, I can not say I hear much difference, if any. Is this just me?


G65, UHD722, DSP7200SE, DSP5200HCSE, DSP5200SE, MC200, 218, RoonServer on Mac, twin Paradigm Persona Subs.
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#275282 - 2018-04-18 22:26 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: dpstjp]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,701
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,701
Loc: Central England, UK
Originally Posted By dpstjp
The same file is being streamed but the DSP is messing up the MQA data, and as such your speakers do not know that there is MQA to decode. No unfolding or decoding should take place.
Not quite, it’s the 218 that performs decoding, the SE DSP’s then render the decoder MQA stream.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#275290 - 2018-04-19 06:53 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 3,992
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 3,992
Loc: London, England
Carl,

My read of the question was that the Roon DSP has been activated, as such DSP filters etc have been applied to the file by the Roon Core. This means the 218 does not receive the MQA file bitperfect with the MQA metadata intact. I can’t see how the respective decoding and rendering can therefore take place as MQA intended.


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#275292 - 2018-04-19 12:32 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: dpstjp]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,701
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,701
Loc: Central England, UK
Hi Dominic,

No argument with that ... My post was to clarify that it’s the 218 not the SE speakers (as you stated in previous post) that performs the MQA decode.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#275297 - 2018-04-19 20:19 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 166
Frode Offline
Hitchhiker
Frode Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 166
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Hi Carl,

Does render mean that the SE`s are just passing the MQA-file thru, or are the SE`s adding something to the process?

Cheers,
Frode


G65, UHD722, DSP7200SE, DSP5200HCSE, DSP5200SE, MC200, 218, RoonServer on Mac, twin Paradigm Persona Subs.
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#275304 - 2018-04-19 22:38 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Frode]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,701
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,701
Loc: Central England, UK
Consider a MQA file with an original recording sample rate of 192k wrapped within a 48KHz / 24 bit FLAC file.

- Roon (or Sooloos) reads and decodes the FLAC file to PCM (48KHz).

- Roon transports the PCM bit perfect to the 218 (no DSP enabled).

- The 218 detects that it is a MQA stream, and decodes (1st MQA unfold) and outputs at 96KHz stream via SpeakerLink to the SE speakers.

- The SE speakers detect it is an decoded MQA stream and then further unfolds up to the original sample rate, in this case 192K. (Further upsampling to optimise the DAC’s perform May also take place).

Hope this helps,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#275306 - 2018-04-20 06:25 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
VirusKiller Online content
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Online content
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By Carl
The SE speakers detect it is an decoded MQA stream
Actually, the SE speakers are told by the controller (218, 818v3, etc.) that it's an MQA Core stream. This is quite an important distinction.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#275307 - 2018-04-20 10:01 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2011-01-25
Posts: 474
bxd Offline
Paranoid android
bxd Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2011-01-25
Posts: 474
Loc: Southampton, UK
Hi,
There is an article ( mainly about DRM) in Stereophile that mentions DSP room correction and MQA. It was in the current issue and seems to be up on their website. I’ll let someone else post the link as I can’t quite get the hang of it_ sorry Carl.

Brian


Main: G65, MD600, MS600, 218, HD621, DSP5200SE, DSP5200HCSE, M6 & D1500.
System 2: G91A, MS200, DSP5000 (96/24v1), DSP3300.
Edited by bxd; 2018-04-20 10:09.
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#275308 - 2018-04-20 10:10 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: bxd]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,402
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,402
Loc: Europe
Brian

Is this the Stereophile article you are referring to?

Russ


Always learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.
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#275309 - 2018-04-20 11:06 Re: Tidal->MQA-> Roon DSP ON/OFF: Whats happening? [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2011-01-25
Posts: 474
bxd Offline
Paranoid android
bxd Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2011-01-25
Posts: 474
Loc: Southampton, UK
No, it’s a later one, posted up yesterday


Main: G65, MD600, MS600, 218, HD621, DSP5200SE, DSP5200HCSE, M6 & D1500.
System 2: G91A, MS200, DSP5000 (96/24v1), DSP3300.
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