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#274829 - 2018-04-06 04:05 Re: MQA Reflections [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2013-03-12
Posts: 86
Rick415 Offline
Mostly harmless
Rick415 Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2013-03-12
Posts: 86
Loc: San Francisco, USA
Akimbo,

I don’t understand. I thought one of the points of MQA is that the files are only slightly larger than CD...

Rick


G68ADV, DSP3100, Rythmik F12 sub, RPi2 with Sbooster LPS, Allo SPDIF board and Roon
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#274845 - 2018-04-06 13:09 Re: MQA Reflections [Re: Rick415]
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 425
Akimo Offline
Paranoid android
Akimo Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 425
Loc: San Jose, California, USA
Rick415,

MQA, like other formats, can be recorded, mastered, and distributed at a range of bandwidths/cut-off frequencies. One of the amazing things about MQA is that distributing at very high bandwidths costs very little in terms of file size.

That said, recording companies can choose to cut-off the bandwidth of an MQA file for a variety of reasons (one being the desire to not have easily duplicated, master quality files out in the public domain). From what I'm seeing, a lot of contemporary MQA albums are being released at 44.1khz or 48khz instead of the higher bandwidths that MQA facilitates so gracefully.


Living room: 818v3, Audio Research VS 110, Maggie 1.6, REL sub
A/V room: 861v8, DSP7200SE L/R/C, 4x DSP320 surrounds, ID41 + Roon, UHD722, Prime+PS
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#274846 - 2018-04-06 14:00 Re: MQA Reflections [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,267
ChrisLayerUK Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,267
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
As I understand it, if you are recording digitally today, 48/24 is all you require to capture everything.
When you’re archiving off analog tape you may well require higher sampling rates.
The sampling rate should not be relevant to the end user as an MQA file should be analogous to the original performance. Music is analog.

Just a thought.


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
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#274847 - 2018-04-06 14:21 Re: MQA Reflections [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 425
Akimo Offline
Paranoid android
Akimo Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 425
Loc: San Jose, California, USA
ChrisLayerUK,

I hate to mix listening experience with theory, because I feel there's a slippery slope into fooling myself that I'm hearing what (my layman's interpretation of) the theory tells me I should hear, but:

It's my understanding that the additional bandwidth is useful for timing precision (which is a frequency of the music independent characteristic). I believe you are correct in terms of 48khz being adequate in terms of frequency response, but not necessarily in terms of timing precision. I grew up thinking that they were the same, but via the MQA patent and other MQA descriptions, now believe/understand that they are not as closely related as I'd thought.

All that said, the MQA albums at 44.1khz, that I've purchased so far, haven't had that startling magic that other MQA albums I've bought have had. It could be me jumping to a conclusion from a small sample set, though.


Living room: 818v3, Audio Research VS 110, Maggie 1.6, REL sub
A/V room: 861v8, DSP7200SE L/R/C, 4x DSP320 surrounds, ID41 + Roon, UHD722, Prime+PS
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#274854 - 2018-04-06 16:19 Re: MQA Reflections [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 476
JaapJan Offline
Paranoid android
JaapJan Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 476
Loc: Land van Maas en Waal, Netherl...
Listening to Glen Hansard's Between two shores which is nicely recorded. Not a massive difference between redbook and MQA 44.1/24 altough i feel that MQA is more pleasant and natural, i enjoy this more relaxed listening. Any other observations on this example?

Cheers!


System 1: MC200, 818v3, DSP7200SE
System 2: boxed (DSP5000.1, Monarchy DIP24/96, Squeezebox Duet.)
Office: MS200, STAX SRM-323II, SR303
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#276010 - 2018-05-14 11:28 Re: MQA Reflections [Re: JaapJan]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,902
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,902
Loc: South UK
I've found even through non-SE speakers (albeit fed by an MQA capable endpoint) I'm consistently impressed with most MQA versions.

I've compared several recordings I believe, or know, to be from the same masters, and 9 times out of 10 I prefer the MQA version. Generally, I find them to be smoother (less 'grainy'), fuller through the midrange and more spatially accurate. Voices and instruments, and the musical whole, just seem more natural and to gel together better.

There has been the odd recording where perhaps the remaster was 'better' in that it obviously attempted to compensate for quite shortcomings in the original recording. This is an interesting case where perhaps original is not always better.

Generally speaking, though, I now opt for the MQA version, if available, and only search for another version if it's one of the rare ones which is obviously a rough original which MQA preserves all too accurately.

In my head, at its best, it combines the best parts of what digital and analogue offered into one package and just lets me enjoy the music more. I genuinely don't understand the level of absolute vitriol and outright hatred out there, which in many quarters almost amounts to a holy war. A great shame as I feel it's one of the best things which has happened to music for a long time.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#276013 - 2018-05-14 12:03 Re: MQA Reflections [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,370
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,370
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Indeed. The email "interview" that Jim Austin had with Bob Stuart, published in this month's Stereophile, is as revealing of Bob's mastery of the subject of audio reproduction as it is incomprehensible. This is no mere charlatan attempting to hoodwink the entire music industry.

IMO, MQA is the real deal and almost certainly the best audio encapsulation format out there. If the master stinks, you are going to hear it, but OTOH, what potential for great recordings and masterings!


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#276016 - 2018-05-14 12:30 Re: MQA Reflections [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,902
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,902
Loc: South UK
Ah yes, but lest we forget, the 'internet experts' know better than a man who's been at the top of his game for thirty-odd years and invented some of the standard codecs they all use every day cry

Agreed, the times when MQA reveals a less than perfect recording are far outweighed by the times it reveals a wonderful one in all its glory. Now if we could just find a way to destroy the heretics - pitchfork, anyone?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#276017 - 2018-05-14 12:37 Re: MQA Reflections [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2002-09-29
Posts: 216
RGraham Offline
Hitchhiker
RGraham Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2002-09-29
Posts: 216
Loc: London, UK
One question I would love to know the answer to is where the bottle necks are in terms of getting more MQA content onto Tidal. It is now over a year since Sony announced their catalogue would be encoded, at the Munich show 2017, and I was hoping this year's show might have coincided with at least some news. The explosive growth of content suggested in January has yet to appear.

Sony continue to release HiRes versions of their back catalogue, weekly. So is the bottle neck capacity on Tidal? Can't believe it is contractual at this time, given the progress with Universal and Warner.

Any insights anyone?

Richard


Zone 1: 861v8+ID41, 818V3, HD621, DSP7200SE, DSP5200SE
Zone 2: 818v3, DSP7000, Cavalli Liquid Gold, Hifiman HE-6
Zone 3: 818v3, Roon ROCK/NUCi7, Densen B-330, Monitor Audio PL 200
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#276018 - 2018-05-14 12:49 Re: MQA Reflections [Re: RGraham]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,902
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,902
Loc: South UK
+1

My frustration with MQA is also that, although there is quite a bit now on Tidal, there seems to be very little of this available to actually buy and own. Any idea when we'll be getting more content we can purchase?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#276023 - 2018-05-14 16:44 Re: MQA Reflections [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 300
Mr_Sukebe Offline
Hitchhiker
Mr_Sukebe Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 300
Loc: Sutton, Surrey, UK
My thoughts?
Unimpressed. Tidal have had months to sort out their metadata, yet here we are, only able to "easily" find 428 albums.
Doesn't matter if they have 3k of them if they're nearly impossible to find.

Quite how they think they'll compete with Quboz who are apparently hosting 70k 24 bit albums, I really don't know.


861v4/ID40/LPS, HD621, Roon, Quad Artera, Impulse Ta'us, Rel Storm 3. Explorer 2 with HD600s.
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#276024 - 2018-05-14 17:04 Re: MQA Reflections [Re: Mr_Sukebe]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,902
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,902
Loc: South UK
Well, that’s more a criticism of Tidal, rather than MQA per se, but yes, they could make it easier.

The latest version of Roon has made great strides with Tidal/MQA, I’m really impressed. You now get the format, including MQA, clearly labelled so you can easily sort CD quality from MQA, etc., when viewing different versions of an album.

This quite apart from the new first unfold of MQA in Roon and ability to DSP afterwards and still render if the hardware is capable. Great stuff.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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