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#273145 - 2018-02-14 04:23 G65 MMHR input - can't configure
Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 19
VlaDeMaN Offline
Harmless
VlaDeMaN Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 19
Loc: Los Angeles, USA
Hi Everyone,

I'm trying to output our projector's audio via it's RJ45 connection (8 ch AES/EBU) and I have successfully got decent audio by bringing the CAT cable to the receiver then breaking out to 3 RCA connectors (only ch 1-6 obviously) to MD2.

I understand that the MMHR port is also an AES or SPDIF signal just via RJ45. When I try to set it up in the config program, I am unable to attach the MMHR (MD1) to any source other than our HD621. I create other source, add an MMHR output to it, but the only option I have for the receiver side of that connection is MD2.

Is this possible? If so, what is the config flow and what is the pinout of the MMHR port?

Thanks in advance!


- G65, DSP5200HC/DSW2500, 2xDSP7200se/DSW, 2xDSP320, 2XDSP520, MQA 218, HD621, C15
- G68 SL, DSP5000C, 2xDSP6000
- 561, DSP5000C/DSW2500, 2xDSP5500
- G61R, DSP5200HC, 2x7200se, 2xDSP3200
- AudioCore 200, 2xDSP3200, C10, TwinStore
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#273157 - 2018-02-14 11:13 Re: G65 MMHR input - can't configure [Re: VlaDeMaN]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,751
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,751
Loc: Central England, UK
Hi,

This question (MMHR RJ45 pinouts) crops up from time to time on the forum ... however as of yet I not seen a satisfactory concrete answer.

We know it supports 8 (6 on the G65) channels of discrete audio, and suspect it comprises of 4 pairs of (differential?) inputs.

Meridian don't publish the details, so I think the only to to make progress is though experimentation ... (having a scope to look at the MMHR output from a HD621 / UHD722 might help).

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#273161 - 2018-02-14 13:15 Re: G65 MMHR input - can't configure [Re: VlaDeMaN]
Registered: 2005-09-10
Posts: 345
Steve M Offline
Hitchhiker
Steve M Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2005-09-10
Posts: 345
Loc: South Australia
Hi VlaDeMan,

Except for the 861v6 or v8, which both have 8 discrete channel capability or 7.1 surround sound, all other Meridian Surround Processors, are limited to 6 discrete channels or 5.1 surround sound.

My experience of using a 598 DVD Player fed from a VGA connector into a mechanical component (3 x coax) switcher on one input and a HD621 on the other input, then fed into a 568mm MHR VGA connection, is that the HD621 is connected as follows from its coax outputs to the multichannel coax MD2 inputs via the component switch as follows;

D1/2 (Main L/R) into D2
D3/4 (Centre/LFE) into D4
D7/8 (Rear L/R Surrounds) into D6

The sides D5/6 output is not used.

Note that when creating a new Config file in MConfig, you can create a source such as a LaserDisc player first and make the multi-channel connection to MD2, before you add a HD621 to the system. Given that you are extracting potentially 8 discrete channels from the projector's audio, but you are trying to connect to a 6 channel surround processor as you intimate, you need to make sure that you connect the rears (7/8) output to the surround processor and not the sides (5/6) output. The digital signal for the sides will be simulated by the 6 channel surround processor. The connection made will be a "multi-channel" 3 coax connection via MD2.

If you connect a HD621 using an Ethernet cable via the MMHR connector output from the HD621 to the MMHR connector in a G68 or G65 (EMMHR MD1 connection), the 8 channels into 6 will be handled automatically. However, if you are breaking out the projector audio from an RJ45 (8ch AES/EBU) into three RCA connectors to then connect to the MD2 connector, you need to ensure you are using the D7/8 rear surrounds and not the D5/6 side surrounds.

I am assuming when you say that you are bringing the projector's RJ45 output via CAT cable to the receiver then breaking out to 3 RCA connectors to MD2, you have some form of breakout cable to convert Ethernet cable to three RCA male connectors. I am not sure how the HD621 is being used other than for additional HDMI sources?

As Carl alluded to previously, there are no wiring layout diagrams for the 8 channel MMHR cable going from a MMHR output to a MMHR input. There are however, extensive wiring diagrams for SpeakerLink as discussed on the following thread;

Meridian SpeakerLink Wiring Diagrams

You would have to experiment to ensure you separated out and identified the required outputs necessary to make a "multi-channel" 3 coax connection via the MD2, ignoring the D5/6 Surround Sides.

Good luck !

Cheers,

Steve M


#1: 8000s, 5500HC, 8000s, 861v8, 800Dv4, HD621
#2: 6000s, 6000C, 5000s, 6000s, 568.2mm, 598DP, 511
#3: 5500s, 5000C, 5000s, 561, 800v3, 518
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#273164 - 2018-02-14 14:19 Re: G65 MMHR input - can't configure [Re: Steve M]
Registered: 2011-01-25
Posts: 492
bxd Offline
Paranoid android
bxd Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2011-01-25
Posts: 492
Loc: Southampton, UK
Hi,

I'd be interested to know what projector has an 8-channel digital audio output?

The G65 manual seems to suggest that there are only two 6-channel digital inputs _ the MMHR input and MD-2 (on D2,D4 and D6) with D1, D3 & D5 only available as individual inputs. On that basis, you don't have MMHR, MD-1 and MD-2, so if you want another digital input you'd need to use a component video switcher as Steve is suggesting.

The G68 can use both MD-1 & MD-2 inputs, but it doesn't have a MMHR input, so it's also limited to 2 multi-digital inputs.

With the HD621, the correct output (6 or 8 channel) is selected when setting up the HD621, so that controls what the G65 or G68 receives. I presume that if you do send an 8-channel input into the MMHR input, that the pins corresponding to the side channels aren't connected to anything, so you won't hear anything. Obviously, the G65 does have the 8 channel (matrixed) output if you want to use the 'synthesised' side channels.

Interestingly, I wonder if you could set the HD621 to 8 channel output and using the coax outputs (or if using some form of MMHR to 8 channel coax adapter) that you could send 6 channels to the G65 and take the side outputs and send them to the (e.g. D1) input on another processor or controller. I'm not sure how you'd balance the levels though!

Wild speculation
Brian


Main: G65, MD600, MS600, 218, HD621, DSP5200SE, DSP5200HCSE, M6 & D1500.
System 2: G91A, MS200, DSP5000 (96/24v1), DSP3300.
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#273177 - 2018-02-14 18:03 Re: G65 MMHR input - can't configure [Re: bxd]
Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 19
VlaDeMaN Offline
Harmless
VlaDeMaN Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 19
Loc: Los Angeles, USA
Carl,

I found the questions about MMHR pinout too, but no answers. I guess experimentation is the way to go.


Steve and bxd,

Thanks for the info. Just to be clear, the HD621 would be deleted for this particular event and the projector would take its place in the MMHR input.

I am breaking up the CAT5e cable into RCA via 110 punchdown RCA keystones in a patch panel (one pair each RCA). No breakout cable, I make my own because I'm semi-pro now lol.

The projector we are using, a Barco DP4K-19B, actually outputs 16ch via 2x RJ45 (1-8, 9-16). Fortunately, no matter how I wire it up, I am able to manually select which stream goes over the each channel. So if I want, I can make ch1/2 output rear surround instead of L+R. It's nice flexibility. Or ch1 output LFE and ch2 R-side-surround for example. Or any combination you want.

I spoke to someone at Audio High and they said after deleting the HD621, the output for the "other source" would have to be MMHR. This allows me to hook up the other source to the MMHR port on the G65 in the config. It will read the unencrypted stream even though I told the G65 that the other source output is MMHR.

The pinout of the MMHR port is still unknown and the SpeakerLink pinout is useless because it only carries 2 ch per RJ45. I'm fairly certain it's straight through but they said I'd have to experiment to find out.

I will report back with the results, maybe I can finally contribute back to this board.


- G65, DSP5200HC/DSW2500, 2xDSP7200se/DSW, 2xDSP320, 2XDSP520, MQA 218, HD621, C15
- G68 SL, DSP5000C, 2xDSP6000
- 561, DSP5000C/DSW2500, 2xDSP5500
- G61R, DSP5200HC, 2x7200se, 2xDSP3200
- AudioCore 200, 2xDSP3200, C10, TwinStore
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#273181 - 2018-02-14 21:07 Re: G65 MMHR input - can't configure [Re: VlaDeMaN]
Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 19
VlaDeMaN Offline
Harmless
VlaDeMaN Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 19
Loc: Los Angeles, USA
Patching the projector's RJ45 straight into the MMHR port worked flawlessly! Audio via channel 5/6 was not playing at all but 1/2, 3/4, and 7/8 went through just fine. So it seems the blue pair (568B) is unused, or at least not used for audio.

The MMHR pinout seems straight through so using a 568B standard:

CH 1/2 - ORANGE PAIR
CH 3/4 - GREEN PAIR
CH 5/6 - BLUE PAIR
CH 7/8 - BROWN PAIR

I will test this out further and confirm but when I had the pairs separated into their own RCA connector, they were mapped as above.

EDIT: it is just a regular AES/EBU RJ45 connector


- G65, DSP5200HC/DSW2500, 2xDSP7200se/DSW, 2xDSP320, 2XDSP520, MQA 218, HD621, C15
- G68 SL, DSP5000C, 2xDSP6000
- 561, DSP5000C/DSW2500, 2xDSP5500
- G61R, DSP5200HC, 2x7200se, 2xDSP3200
- AudioCore 200, 2xDSP3200, C10, TwinStore
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#273182 - 2018-02-14 21:26 Re: G65 MMHR input - can't configure [Re: VlaDeMaN]
Registered: 2005-09-10
Posts: 345
Steve M Offline
Hitchhiker
Steve M Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2005-09-10
Posts: 345
Loc: South Australia
VlaDeman,

The information you gave in your response is the sort of info you should have included in your original post, in order to help the forum members to better diagnose your problem and offer a solution.

Without the HD621 created as a source, you can make an MMHR connection to MD1 in the G65 if you designate the new source with an MMHR output, as you now know.

Lack of information given by people requesting solutions on this forum is unfortunately very common.

Glad you are sorted.

Cheers,
Steve M


#1: 8000s, 5500HC, 8000s, 861v8, 800Dv4, HD621
#2: 6000s, 6000C, 5000s, 6000s, 568.2mm, 598DP, 511
#3: 5500s, 5000C, 5000s, 561, 800v3, 518
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#273185 - 2018-02-14 23:02 Re: G65 MMHR input - can't configure [Re: VlaDeMaN]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,751
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,751
Loc: Central England, UK
Originally Posted By VlaDeMaN
CH 5/6 - BLUE PAIR (or comms or something else, since MMHR is only 6ch)
- MMHR is 6 channel for G65
- MMHR is 8 channel for 861v6 and 861v8

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#273231 - 2018-02-15 20:02 Re: G65 MMHR input - can't configure [Re: Steve M]
Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 19
VlaDeMaN Offline
Harmless
VlaDeMaN Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 19
Loc: Los Angeles, USA
Carl, thanks, that makes sense and it matches what I've experienced.

Steve, I'm not sure which information you're referring to. Everything I wrote in my reply was actually hot off the press, I didn't know it before when I made the thread. The only other things was about the HD621, but its doesn't need to be completely deleted in the config for the MHR port to be available to other sources, it just needs to be disconnected from that MHR port. As always, thank for the detailed info. I don't always reply to your emails but I read and absorb every single bit.

Also, someone modified my post, changing MHR to EMMHR. It changes the whole vibe of the post and not for better, I don't think it was appropriate.


- G65, DSP5200HC/DSW2500, 2xDSP7200se/DSW, 2xDSP320, 2XDSP520, MQA 218, HD621, C15
- G68 SL, DSP5000C, 2xDSP6000
- 561, DSP5000C/DSW2500, 2xDSP5500
- G61R, DSP5200HC, 2x7200se, 2xDSP3200
- AudioCore 200, 2xDSP3200, C10, TwinStore
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#273235 - 2018-02-15 21:11 Re: G65 MMHR input - can't configure [Re: VlaDeMaN]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,751
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,751
Loc: Central England, UK
Hi,

Yes ... thanks to your experimentation our speculation (4 pairs of AES) is confirmed and we have the pinout answers now, many thanks for sharing.

Terminology

MHR stands for Meridian High Resolution, it is a form of signal encryption and is said to also help reduce jitter in SPDIF transmission.

Smartlink, is when 3x SPDIF MHR connections are grouped for a 5.1 (3x RCA or VGA) connection to the processor (metadata is also included).

EMMHR (Enhanced Multichannel MHR), is the term for the 7.1 (RJ45, AES, connection from the HD621 to Processor.

EMMHR is typically written as just MMHR... which is how the RJ45 port on HD621 is labled.

I agree having the ‘E’ is a bit cumbersome... let’s lose it...

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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