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#272302 - 2018-01-25 22:20 Has Qobuz made MQA pointless?
Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 300
Mr_Sukebe Offline
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Mr_Sukebe Offline
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Hadn't realised until today that Qobuz sublime+ is now hosting over 70k albums in 24bit.
Bearing in mind the goal of MQA to provide something approximating to 24bit, but still has a bonkers small catalogue, I now see little genuine purpose for MQA, especially bearing in mind that if you want to apply the "end to end" chain for MQA, that I've yet to see a sensible way to apply room correction.


861v4/ID40/LPS, HD621, Roon, Quad Artera, Impulse Ta'us, Rel Storm 3. Explorer 2 with HD600s.
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#272313 - 2018-01-26 09:03 Re: Has Qobuz made MQA pointless? [Re: Mr_Sukebe]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,454
Ian Offline
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Ian Offline
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Registered: 2004-08-07
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Loc: Surrey, England, UK
MQA allows for high res files, 96/24, 192/24, 384/24 etc to fit into stream that can be downloaded/streamed with modest requirements.

So the question is, how much original content is out there at greater then 44.1/48k that would benefit from the higher resolutions supported by MQA?

Plus, the little blue light on MQA means that its got provenence, unlike some so called high resolution material.

But, if people don't care about provenence, and have got great resources with which to stream/download/store and don't care/understand about the other bits that make MQA more than just another codec, then I am sure something like Qobuz will be fine.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#272316 - 2018-01-26 09:22 Re: Has Qobuz made MQA pointless? [Re: Mr_Sukebe]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
VirusKiller Online content
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VirusKiller Online content
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Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
I just wanted to add that MQA is a *lot* more than 24-bit; I certainly wouldn't call 24-bit a "major" goal. To quote Bob, the main audio goal of MQA was to "do no more damage to the original audio than passing it through 10 metres of air". Some will (and do) scoff at that; I think it's an incredibly appropriate goal and one which focuses on what really matters. Apparently, this goal was achieved.

In terms of the catalogue, are you basing your assertion on the items in TIDAL's "Masters" section? If so, be aware that that is only a curated fragment of the overall MQA/Masters catalogue.

Also, are you aware that, as part of their contracts with MQA, the studios are *legally* obliged to convert their entire catalogues to MQA?


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#272317 - 2018-01-26 09:37 Re: Has Qobuz made MQA pointless? [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2007-11-23
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Greg Wright Offline
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Registered: 2007-11-23
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Originally Posted By VirusKiller
Also, are you aware that, as part of their contracts with MQA, the studios are *legally* obliged to convert their entire catalogues to MQA?
That's interesting, I didn't know that.


M owner since '97
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#272320 - 2018-01-26 10:12 Re: Has Qobuz made MQA pointless? [Re: Greg Wright]
Registered: 2004-04-15
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VirusKiller Online content
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Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
The information is in this article (usual naysayer / fake news comments at the end). I would like another source of that information though.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#272331 - 2018-01-26 16:10 Re: Has Qobuz made MQA pointless? [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2002-02-14
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ncpl Offline
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Consider who the 3 largest shareholders in MQA Ltd are. The 3 largest parent music labels. No surprises for guessing what that means. I would use that as circumstantial corroboration Joel that it is only a matter of time. As soon as Sony hit the button I expect numbers to significantly increase.

In the OP's similar thread on the Roon forum there were also ill-informed comments about the MQA catalogue being "small". It is a shame that Tidal and MQA cannot make it clearer but that is entirely WHY we publish the MQA album list.

It is a shame that Me Sukebe hadn't looked at that before jumping to conclusions.

70,000+ 24bit albums on Qobuz. We've been there before with HDTracks and the question of provenance. I am not sure the studios have issued that many 24bit albums to anyone.

Qobuz is also not yet available widely in all major geographies.

That all said...I am not actually against Qobuz at all. If customers want it and they can do it then great.
But to make the leap that "MQA is pointless" because of it is a leap too far.


Rgds,
Nick

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#276344 - 2018-05-25 13:20 Re: Has Qobuz made MQA pointless? [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
3dit0r Offline
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3dit0r Offline
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Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
Loc: South UK
Originally Posted By ncpl
We've been there before with HDTracks and the question of provenance.
I've been there personally with this. I was comparing a 24/96 version of an album I bought from them, of which I had a CD and vinyl copy. I noticed that it appeared to be a different performance to the others (the tempi of the movements were all subtly off, and perhaps even the orchestra tuning). I contacted them and their customer service confirmed the difference. It turned out they couldn't even confirm which recording it was (let alone whether it was a true 24/96 master, or upsampled).

This is a huge key benefit to MQA, which I believe has been completely overlooked in the vitriol which has been slung at the format. Hi-Res isn't worth a damn if it's not really hi-res (or even the correct recording).

A concern of mine (especially considering the continued rumblings about Tidal financial difficulties) is that I've still found only a small fraction of the MQA content I know to be out there (due to Tidal) available to actually purchase. I love to use Tidal as a way to listen to a lot of music and then buy the albums I'd like to keep, but this is proving difficult to impossible with most MQA albums.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#276435 - 2018-05-28 16:05 Re: Has Qobuz made MQA pointless? [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 300
Mr_Sukebe Offline
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Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 300
Loc: Sutton, Surrey, UK
Originally Posted By 3dit0r
... A concern of mine (especially considering the continued rumblings about Tidal financial difficulties) is that I've still found only a small fraction of the MQA content I know to be out there (due to Tidal) available to actually purchase. I love to use Tidal as a way to listen to a lot of music and then buy the albums I'd like to keep, but this is proving difficult to impossible with most MQA albums.
Quite.

MQA might well be the most amazing format currently available.
However, I listen to music for enjoyment, not to have to scrabble around trying to find MQA albums.

I took up another 1 month free trial of Tidal. Whilst I very much liked what I heard, I won't be renewing.
From a 3rd party view, looks like very non-joined up thinking.


861v4/ID40/LPS, HD621, Roon, Quad Artera, Impulse Ta'us, Rel Storm 3. Explorer 2 with HD600s.
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#276445 - 2018-05-29 13:25 Re: Has Qobuz made MQA pointless? [Re: Mr_Sukebe]
Registered: 2010-09-29
Posts: 198
VinylNutter Offline
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Registered: 2010-09-29
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Further to the earlier reference to not being able to find a way to handle room correction with mqa, this can now be done within Roon as i understand it. I aim to experiment with this in the future.

Regarding the cost of Tidal i think its fairly moderate for an audiophile, considering what some spend on hardware and cables etc. Surely you can enjoy the music on mqa and the music on other formats too?


Roon Core,UltraDAC, MS600, Bluesound Node 2
Marantz AV7703 Pre/Pro, Oppo BDP-105EU, Linn 350A/340A, Velodyne SPL1200, Classe CP-800, Revel Embrace, Cambridge Audio 840W x2,
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#276447 - 2018-05-29 15:54 Re: Has Qobuz made MQA pointless? [Re: VinylNutter]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
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Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,804
Loc: South UK
Jeremy,

My understanding is you can currently only ‘half-do’ MQA/room correction with Roon and a Meridian endpoint; Roon can now perform the first unfold and then pass the decoded MQA through DSP with the MQA ‘tag’ intact for further rendering, if the DAC is capable of this. Apparently, though, Meridian endpoints cannot currently read this correctly, so you won’t get any further rendering after RC

Fully agree about the cost of Tidal. My way of looking at it is that one hi-res album download is bordering on £16 or so. For £3 more a month, I have access to a far bigger library of music than I could hope to own and am free to sample more music than I would ever take a chance on buying. I also have many great and some favourite albums in MQA. I would only like to be able to purchase some of my favourite MQA albums on top of this.

Also, OT, but I notice you have an Ultra DAC. Very nice! Is it as good as one might expect?

James


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#276454 - 2018-05-29 21:36 Re: Has Qobuz made MQA pointless? [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2010-09-29
Posts: 198
VinylNutter Offline
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VinylNutter Offline
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Registered: 2010-09-29
Posts: 198
Loc: Surrey, UK
That’s a pity, though hopefully will be resolved in due course?

I do have an UltraRendu endpoint which feeds the Ultradac via USB which manages to sound noticeably better than using the endpoint in the Ultradac, so presumably this would bypass the issues around room correction.

The Ultradac is good, has a very warm organic sound without losing detail, very happy with it. Don’t know why it needs to be so enormous though, presumably they have a lot of 800 series cases to use!


Roon Core,UltraDAC, MS600, Bluesound Node 2
Marantz AV7703 Pre/Pro, Oppo BDP-105EU, Linn 350A/340A, Velodyne SPL1200, Classe CP-800, Revel Embrace, Cambridge Audio 840W x2,
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