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#272242 - 2018-01-24 11:50 Help with room layout
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,571
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,571
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
We're going to be moving house later this year & I'm hoping for some suggestions re potential room layout. The plan is to have a pair of DSPs upstairs in the main living room (streaming Tidal / Roon etc) & having the cinema in a dedicated room downstairs. The problem is fitting the cinema in as I'm itching to get a bigger screen while we're at it.

Current screen is 129" 2.35 (it comes it at 119" / 3.03m wide, including the frame) & I'd like to go for a 150" or 160" screen in the same shape (a 150" screen is 35% bigger than a 129" one, perhaps surprisingly). The problem is that the 'dedicated' room downstairs is 4m x 6m. Not a bad size, but if I place a 150" screen on the shorter wall (which feels more natural), then a Screen Innovations Zero Edge screen at that size measures 138.75" / 3.53m, so it would almost fill the wall. That's fine, but it wouldn't leave much / any room for front DSPs. The way I see it, these are my options.

1) Stick with the existing screen & all problems disappear.
2) Put the larger screen on the 4m wall, run my (new-ish) 5500HC almost on the floor with the screen as close to eye-level as possible & run a pair of in-walls as front L&R.
3) As above but run a pair of low down 5000Cs as front L&R; level with the 5500HC. i.e. almost at floor level, with the HCs canted up towards the listener.
4) Put the bigger screen on the 6m wall, which could accommodate any realistic screen size PLUS my existing 5500 L&R but then the 4m "length" wouldn't allow my existing projector the space to generate such a large image. That would require me sourcing a short-throw PJ. The problem with that is that (as far as I'm aware), PJs seem to be "normal" or "ultra short-throw". Sony do an ultra-short 4k one but it's £20k or thereabouts & I don't want to pay that.
5) Buy a new screen that is no wider than the existing one but is taller so it would be the same size for 2.35 films but bigger for 16:9 stuff. Allows the use of existing 5500 L&R.
6) We could put the cinema in the main living room (that wall is over 7m long) but then it would be more of a compromise i.e. unlikely to be able to paint the screen wall in matt black, the subs would more likely end up where they looked best rather than sounded best etc.

Thoughts?


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL Gibraltar 2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#272243 - 2018-01-24 11:52 Re: Help with room layout [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,403
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,403
Loc: Europe
Acoustically transparent screen with DSP’s behind?


Always learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.
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#272244 - 2018-01-24 12:25 Re: Help with room layout [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,571
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,571
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Russ; I should have listed that one too. I had considered it but rejected it as the door into the room is where the right front DSP would be. I suppose that door could be closed up & another one created from the room next door. So, 'possible' but probably 'more work than ideal' I suppose.

Thanks for the suggestion though.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL Gibraltar 2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#272245 - 2018-01-24 13:08 Re: Help with room layout [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,435
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,435
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
HI Marcus

Would you consider in wall DSPs behind an acoustic screen. You would need extra subs to make up for your 5500s.

Cheers
Tom


Main: G68J, 218 HD621, 3*5200s (2 SE L&R),DSW, 2* Reviver, 3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 5200s, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
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#272254 - 2018-01-24 16:57 Re: Help with room layout [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 701
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 701
Loc: Newbury, UK
Rule out #4, it'll give you additional bass issues as well.

What is your current room size and viewing distance?


Chris
Living Rm: 568.2 | 2xDSP3100
  AV Room: G61R | 4xD5K | D5KC | USC15 - iNuke6K | 2xEarthquake MQB-1 | JVC HD350 & React3 2.35:1
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#272255 - 2018-01-24 17:21 Re: Help with room layout [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,614
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,614
Loc: Austria, Europe
Ask Meridian, they offer free design...


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
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#272257 - 2018-01-24 17:23 Re: Help with room layout [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,403
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,403
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By RobertW
Ask Meridian, they offer free design...


Excellent cool


Always learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.
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#272268 - 2018-01-25 07:16 Re: Help with room layout [Re: Chris G]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,571
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,571
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Originally Posted By Chris G
What is your current room size and viewing distance?
Chris, current room is 4.71m (the screen wall) x 6.40m with the projector just in front of the back wall, so ~ 6m from the screen.

We sit 2.35m from the screen.

Robert; I vaguely remember Meridian's design service; I'll look into it.

Thanks.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL Gibraltar 2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#272276 - 2018-01-25 14:21 Re: Help with room layout [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,571
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,571
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Whilst trying hard to avoid "answering-own-question syndrome", I had another thought about this & wondered if anybody has experience of this....

I have a pair of 5500s that currently act as L&R. If I put the screen on the smaller wall, would it be possible to lay the 55s down & effectively run 3 x 5500HCs across the front? (By 'possible' I really mean 'advisable?'!)

I'm sure that it would work better with the tweeters to the edge & the bass drivers towards the centre. Clearly the rear port isn't optimised for the horizontal positioning as it is with the dedicated HC, but might it work? 3 x dedicated HCs would clearly look better (unless they were all behind a screen) but it might give me a simple / cheap solution.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL Gibraltar 2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#272285 - 2018-01-25 16:59 Re: Help with room layout [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 701
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 701
Loc: Newbury, UK
I personally wouldn't want the soundstage down that low. It'd be easy enough for you to try ahead of time to see if it'd work for you. At your viewing distance, an acoustically transparent screen would give you the size boost you want without sacrificing sound quality. Apart from the newer shaped DSPs, I don't think I'd miss my 5Ks if they were hidden behind a screen, but I wouldn't enjoy the sound being presented at floor level, below the action.


Chris
Living Rm: 568.2 | 2xDSP3100
  AV Room: G61R | 4xD5K | D5KC | USC15 - iNuke6K | 2xEarthquake MQB-1 | JVC HD350 & React3 2.35:1
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#272326 - 2018-01-26 15:23 Re: Help with room layout [Re: Chris G]
Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,894
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,894
Loc: Norwich, UK
You may find at that point you are better to just run two, like they do at the cinema.

Two of the best sounding cinema systems I have ever heard were running with no centre, or maybe a phantom centre, with the mains behind the screen.


No Darling, I've had it months!
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#272329 - 2018-01-26 16:01 Re: Help with room layout [Re: gIzzE]
Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 701
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 701
Loc: Newbury, UK
Whereas I firmly believe a centre speaker of equivalent quality to the mains is vital, even in small rooms. Phantoms don't work, for me. But you could go crazy and have three on the floor horizontally and three more at the top creating a phantom image in the middle. That might rock. laugh


Chris
Living Rm: 568.2 | 2xDSP3100
  AV Room: G61R | 4xD5K | D5KC | USC15 - iNuke6K | 2xEarthquake MQB-1 | JVC HD350 & React3 2.35:1
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#272348 - 2018-01-27 06:57 Re: Help with room layout [Re: Chris G]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,571
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,571
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Chris; if I went down the 3 x HC approach, I'd angle them up so the sound fired at the listener. Should be easy enough to achieve I hope.

gizzE; I was amazed to see you suggesting running just a stereo pair. I've always believed that on a screen of any great size, a centre was vital for locking dialogue to the screen, but running a stereo pair on a 3.5m screen? That's asking an awful lot of a phantom, but you have the experience of it & I don't. As I already have a 5500HC then I can't see me doing away with one, but it's certainly a left-field approach, which I appreciate!

I've since had another thought....The opposite end of the room, down the 'normal' length, is largely window with an external shutter. As the room in going to be a dedicated cinema room, I'm thinking about having the screen at that end of the room, effectively doing away with that window. That takes the door out of play so I think I'm down to either 3 x HCs or a transparent screen. Some GIK bass panels would be easy to slip in behind a screen while I was at it...

The other long wall has a large window in it so the room would still look fine during the day for social-acceptability purposes!


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL Gibraltar 2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#272354 - 2018-01-27 10:16 Re: Help with room layout [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,894
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,894
Loc: Norwich, UK
I wouldn't wan't to do it unless they were behind the screen, or under it in your case.


Go outside of the screen and it will just sound wrong.


No Darling, I've had it months!
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#272403 - 2018-01-29 13:05 Re: Help with room layout [Re: gIzzE]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,571
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,571
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Well I'm thinking more about a transparent screen & starting to price some up. Does anyone have an acoustically transparent screen that they are happy (or not!) with?

I've had a quote from Screen Innovations & they are reasonably £££ but I know & like their products. Some others seem to be very much cheaper but I have no idea about relative quality.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL Gibraltar 2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#272465 - 2018-01-30 14:31 Re: Help with room layout [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2005-01-23
Posts: 521
dBrowne Offline
Paranoid android
dBrowne Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2005-01-23
Posts: 521
Loc: Southern England, EU
I have had an Screen Research acoustically transparent screen for over ten years now. In the same time, I have swapped out three projectors and two center speakers. The center needs only a couple of dB lift to equalise and that's about it.

I have a JVC pixel shifter for pseudo-4K at the moment and I still can't fault the picture or the sound transmission quality. I definitely think it's worth spending the extra on the screen as the tech doesn't improve all that quickly and you are likely to own it longer than the projectors.


Main System: 861v8+ID41, HD621, 3 x 8KuSE, 4 x M6 Surrounds, Velodyne DD18, Oppo 203, Popcorn Hour A500, Roon.
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