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#270979 - 2017-12-22 16:43 What if Tidal goes bust...
Registered: 2007-09-01
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Cmr600 Offline
Hitchhiker
Cmr600 Offline
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Rumour mill suggests six months cash left and no one that interested in bailing them out...

What would that mean for Sooloos, Roon, and of course MQA...??

Thoughts?


M Customer since 1991...

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#270980 - 2017-12-22 16:53 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Cmr600]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,259
ChrisLayerUK Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,259
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
There is a big thread on this on the Roon forum but Danny at Roon described the news article as uniformed click bait. Or words to that effect.

Here I think


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
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#271008 - 2017-12-23 16:50 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 300
Mr_Sukebe Offline
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My guess:
- Probably kills MQA. There's been so much "noise" ref MQA that I wouldn't be surprised if other service groups give it a wide berth. Doesn't matter if the nega-hype is true or not. IMO, MQA haven't managed to quell those rumours in an effective manner.
- IMO, Roon is still the best "front end" for local music streaming, though others are clearly trying to catch up. I do think that they need to revisit how to "sell" their interaction to groups like Qobuz. My guess is that Spotify and Qobuz don't want to offer API connections, as it probably prohibits them from using in built advertising. So maybe Roon should consider a way of allowing a user to "opt in" to adverts, such that Qobuz says yes.


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#271009 - 2017-12-23 17:29 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Mr_Sukebe]
Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,252
Hector Offline
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Hector Offline
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Registered: 2011-02-02
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Loc: Midlands, UK
Originally Posted By Mr_Sukebe
My guess:
- Probably kills MQA. There's been so much "noise" ref MQA that I wouldn't be surprised if other service groups give it a wide berth.
Why so negative?
MQA is great, stand up and fight for Bob. He has contributed so much to worldwide music appreciation, without making a fortune.
Don't listen to the naysayers, use your ears grin
Hector


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#271014 - 2017-12-23 18:51 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Hector]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,259
ChrisLayerUK Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Online content
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Posts: 6,259
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Here here David. I promise not to kick your soapbox from under you.. lol Happy Christmas.


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
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#271023 - 2017-12-24 07:27 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Hector]
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RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
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#271034 - 2017-12-24 12:17 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2004-10-20
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GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
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Why wouldn't other streaming platforms offer MQA if Tidal went bust? It would give them a USP and the catalogue is growing at a decent rate.

What I'd like to know is why are the streaming companies making losses? Is it up front investment or just a bad model? If they are all making losses are we not paying enough for the service, should you pay for usage etc?

Cheers
Tom


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#271035 - 2017-12-24 12:35 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2004-04-15
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VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
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Quote:
If they are all making losses are we not paying enough for the service
It's as simple as that. Trouble is, a generation has grown up with the idea that you don't have to pay for music (gross exaggeration, but more than a grain of truth).


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#271036 - 2017-12-24 13:48 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,442
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
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I don't know how the artist payments are made but it's easy to leave the service running on a radio type feature overnight. Maybe the payment should cover X number of hours /tracks per month.


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#271037 - 2017-12-24 15:17 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: GMT]
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Dubya Offline
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MQA will be available on Deezer. There is a press release on the MQA site.

W


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#271038 - 2017-12-24 15:39 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Hector]
Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 300
Mr_Sukebe Offline
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Mr_Sukebe Offline
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Originally Posted By Hector
Originally Posted By Mr_Sukebe
My guess:
- Probably kills MQA. There's been so much "noise" ref MQA that I wouldn't be surprised if other service groups give it a wide berth.
Why so negative?
MQA is great, stand up and fight for Bob. He has contributed so much to worldwide music appreciation, without making a fortune.
Don't listen to the naysayers, use your ears grin
Hector
Negative?
I first requested MQA software decoding in Roon back in June 2015 and have been waiting since. I personally see genuine potential.
Unfortunately, a certain vocal element who frequent the hi-fi forums don't share my view and have been spreading vitriol for a couple of years now. Say it enough times and some people will believe you.

I'd love to see MQA standing up to these comments and questions directly, as most are just rubbish and could/should be easily put to bed by the group with the right answers. I'm amazed that it's not been forthcoming.


861v4/ID40/LPS, HD621, Roon, Quad Artera, Impulse Ta'us, Rel Storm 3. Explorer 2 with HD600s.
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#271039 - 2017-12-24 16:01 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Mr_Sukebe]
Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,718
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure
Gianni Offline
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I have watched (and sometimes assisted) as Mr_Sukebe has attempted to inject some facts and objectivity into the poisonous debates over at Pink Fish. There are four or five posters on that forum who wilfully post mis-information about MQA. They are also happy to state that they do not need to listen to MQA to hear its shortcomings...


Wonderful perfect quadraphonic sound with distortion levels so low as to make a brave man weep smile
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#271040 - 2017-12-24 16:18 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Mr_Sukebe]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,355
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,355
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By Mr_Sukebe
Unfortunately, a certain vocal element who frequent the hi-fi forums don't share my view and have been spreading vitriol for a couple of years now. Say it enough times and some people will believe you.

I'd love to see MQA standing up to these comments and questions directly, as most are just rubbish and could/should be easily put to bed by the group with the right answers. I'm amazed that it's not been forthcoming.
There has been some response, most notably Bob's big Q&A on computeraudiophile.com. Don't get me wrong, I would like a *lot* more information from MQA Ltd.; but the simple truth is that we now live in a world where fake news and distrust of experts are endemic. Bob can respond again and again, but that won't stop those with vested interests (boutique PCM studios and providers of audiophile DSP), trolls, idiot bloggers, and their followers finding some angle and promulgating falsehoods. Unfortunately, debate over genuine concerns surrounding MQA technology (for example, the audibility of aliasing) is completely drowned out in the maelstrom of MQA hate.

In 5, 10, 20 years time, we'll wonder what all the fuss was about. IMO, and to paraphrase Sun Tzu, by the time MQA was launched (went to war), the victory (winning over the artists, recording engineers, and studios) had already been won behind closed doors. There was never going to be a repeat of the DVDA/SACD/MP3 "mistake". Audiofools can shout until they're blue in the face, but their opinion matters little.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#271042 - 2017-12-24 16:39 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,252
Hector Offline
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Hector Offline
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Thank you VK
I will cancel my Spotify subscription and rely on the future success of MQA and Tidal.
Hector


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#271044 - 2017-12-24 16:51 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,455
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

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Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,455
Loc: Surrey, UK
Very well put Joel.

There may be a few HH members here still who were on the HH visit when the F80 was revealed.

This was well before MQA but Bob did make a curious statement, with a twinkle in his eye, in the open floor Q&A that “not all lossless was the same”. An odd thing to say to the group who were all “experts” with their FLAC files and squeezeboxes.

During a visit to HQ where we were actively trying to develop relations and features for this site, whilst waiting for Paul, a certain Mr Craven who was also in reception, asked if we “were from Warner”.

All this was well before MQA emerged.

The work that has gone into MQA is far, far more than we see. The key battles were indeed played out well before the anti-mob ever heard of it.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#271046 - 2017-12-24 17:12 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 5,379
Ludwig Offline
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Ludwig Offline
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Peter Craven was at my father’s 60th birthday party and talked about his work on finding the important information in a high resolution audio stream. My dad is now 71. That’s a lot of man hours going into MQA.


Ex-moderator
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#271048 - 2017-12-24 17:29 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Ludwig]
Registered: 2004-04-15
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VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
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Don't Panic

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Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
FWIW, I'm not saying that it's going to be plain sailing in the world of streaming: clearly none of the current streaming services appears to have a profitable business model, nor one which distributes royalties equitably (i.e. smaller artists getting their share). That said, Verizon only recently bought a third of TIDAL for $200M, so there is vested interest from at least one very large corporate in TIDAL's future.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#271054 - 2017-12-24 20:44 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Ludwig]
Registered: 2002-02-14
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ncpl Offline
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ncpl Offline

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I nearly mentioned that family link Ludwig but thought I would leave that for you 😀


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#271354 - 2018-01-02 21:55 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,259
ChrisLayerUK Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,259
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
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#271762 - 2018-01-13 09:09 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 476
JaapJan Offline
Paranoid android
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Loc: Land van Maas en Waal, Netherl...
Another one against Spotify Huffington censors Spotify criticism


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#271767 - 2018-01-13 09:35 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: JaapJan]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,494
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
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Posts: 7,494
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
thanks for posting that.


Meridian owner since 1992
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#271776 - 2018-01-13 10:25 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Ian]
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Hector Offline
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Hector Offline
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+1
Very interesting reading
Hector


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#273705 - 2018-02-24 17:51 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Hector]
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Posts: 492
Simon Mirren Offline
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Hi all,

With my new apartment setup and the switch to headphone listening all my critical music listening is now done from the comfort of my office - PC to Prime. I have already begrudgingly moved away from Sooloos - still my much preferred choice - but as I can't get a bit perfect output from Touch / Control:PC I have moved to a full FLAC export and JRiver. Perhaps a 218 in the future will get me back on Sooloos but I'm not sure it would offer a great deal in my case.

I am getting increasingly interested in using Tidal as my main music platform. The benefit of MQA (or simply high-res offered from Streaming providers otherwise unavailable for purchase), exploring new music and finding classics and having a single platform for all listening is very alluring but here's my conundrum - which I'm sure many must have considered although surprising not brought up in this thread....

What if they go bust (or any other streaming service for that matter) and you've spent hours, days, weeks, even years curating a collection of your favourite music, setting up countless playlists etc?

Has anyone any experience of signing up to a service that has gone bust? It is as simple as you lose everything?

I'd like to think that as a passing gesture to customers there would be a way offered to port your library look-up table over to another service but is this even possible - EG Tidal goes bust and offers a link than you can upload in Deezer to re-instate your playlists and collection from their library (Tidal could probably charge a tidy sum to a competitor for this as they would naturally take on a huge % of their customer base).

Or is this something a company like Roon could do? They manage collections from a number of streaming services so its not inconceivable they could offer a service that takes your library and searches for it on another platform if it had too. Would be a great additional selling point too - anyone from Roon able to comment?

Curious to know if anyone's made the full switch to streaming only despite the risks. 1st world decisions.

Interested in any / all views for discussion - keeps me at my desk longer smile.

PS. I'm not trying to suggest Tidal is in trouble - just using them as the example as per the topic. Clearly the same applies to all streaming services.


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#273877 - 2018-03-01 11:35 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Simon Mirren]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,590
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
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I saw This BBC link today, suggesting that Spotify is in very rude health, which reminded me about this recent thread.

Not sure if there's any update on Tidal's financial strength; a quick search didn't show up anything very recent.


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#273879 - 2018-03-01 12:16 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,455
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,455
Loc: Surrey, UK
Rude health ?

$23bn is certainly headline grabbing but so is "In its filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, Spotify said it has made annual losses every year and lost more than €1.2bn in losses in 2017"

Hard to equate such value with no profit ?

Why are the shareholders effectively getting out ?


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#273885 - 2018-03-01 17:42 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,252
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,252
Loc: Midlands, UK
Yep, it is "Play Misty for Me" too, but maybe it really is the first day of spring.
crazy
Hector


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A capella to Zydeco
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#274031 - 2018-03-07 16:35 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2001-01-04
Posts: 250
MagnusB Offline
Hitchhiker
MagnusB Offline
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Posts: 250
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By VirusKiller
Quote:
If they are all making losses are we not paying enough for the service
It's as simple as that. Trouble is, a generation has grown up with the idea that you don't have to pay for music (gross exaggeration, but more than a grain of truth).
I don't buy it.

The distribution is so much less costly than physical mediums and we all pay for more than a "CD" every month, including all the people who would buy max one "CD" a year.

I would like to see some more data explaining the real costs because something is not right.


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#276112 - 2018-05-17 08:48 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: MagnusB]
Registered: 2007-11-23
Posts: 507
Greg Wright Offline
Paranoid android
Greg Wright Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2007-11-23
Posts: 507
Loc: Surrey, UK
FYI
Originally Posted By MacRumors
Subscription based music service and Apple Music competitor Tidal is months behind on its royalty payments to record labels according to a report from Norwegian news site Dagens Næringsliv that was translated by Music Business Worldwide.
Tidal Behind On Royalty Payments


M owner since '97
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#276113 - 2018-05-17 09:03 Re: What if Tidal goes bust... [Re: Greg Wright]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,473
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
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Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,473
Loc: Europe
Things are likely to move on in the Roon world.


Always learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.
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