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#270610 - 2017-12-10 14:02 Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break
Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
Loc: Manhattan, NYC, USA

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#270619 - 2017-12-10 20:36 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: _M_]
Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,905
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,905
Loc: Norwich, UK
Well as long as people get their latest tut delivered next day, who cares?


No Darling, I've had it months!
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#270621 - 2017-12-10 20:58 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: gIzzE]
Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,905
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,905
Loc: Norwich, UK
I wish I could send out 200 parcels for £160 all in.

200 parcels currently costs me £1248.00 using parcel force 24 express.

Plus if they allowed me to pay [censored] all VAT and less than 0.05% Corporation tax I could..........well...........have half a chance of competing.



Every time someone buys from Amazon they really should stop and consider the impact they are having by doing so.


Sorry I read that wrong, they are not being paid £160 a day, it is actually £103 a day. But Amazon charge for the van and the fuel at 16p per mile.
The £160 figure is what the driver is left with, after a weeks worth of work.

If you use this company you need to have a serious word with your self.


No Darling, I've had it months!
Edited by gIzzE; 2017-12-10 21:02.
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#270623 - 2017-12-10 21:32 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: gIzzE]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,590
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,590
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Originally Posted By gIzzE
Every time someone buys from Amazon they really should stop and consider the impact they are having by doing so


We use Amazon, quite regularly. They have been a positive force in the market-place in many ways & of course a 'major' is always going to negatively impact a 'minor', but that's market-forces for you. Getting both sides to agree is always going to be impossible.

gizzE is clearly on the front line & seems to be suffering under the crushing weight of a major player. I'm not sure there's a simple solution to this conundrum....Major player invades space previously occupied by many minor players & conquers all. It's a story that's played-out countless times throughout human history. It isn't going to go away.

I'm pretty sure that Amazon is here to stay; it's up to gizzE & his chums to find their own niche & to thrive in an Amazon-world.

It's do-able for sure. Good luck gizzE.


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#270625 - 2017-12-10 21:49 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,303
Mr Meridian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Mr Meridian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,303
Loc: Perthshire, Scotland
It's the worker exploitation aspects that bother me, and the wholesale shifting of business costs to be "someone else's problem". Whether it's the warehouse workers themselves, or the delivery drivers further down the chain, it leaves a bad taste. But as noted above, they are not alone in this.

But, it's just my tuppence worth, and I have largely taken my (limited) business elsewhere in recent years.

Cheers

George

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#270626 - 2017-12-10 21:56 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: Mr Meridian]
Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
Loc: Manhattan, NYC, USA
Amazon has LOST MONEY every single quarter on their core business. for those of you that can't appreciate this allow me to explain: no other normal company can operate for decades losing money every single day.

this is an evil crony welfare queen corporation that will one day become The Company Store for the globe, setting any prices and shaping tastes and purchasing patterns.

those that defend Amazon are simply ignorant of the facts and know nothing of econ 101. or they are investors and shareholders that only care about "profits". this is a gigantic cash-burn operation.

i could go on, but those that read the above and appreciate the implications will do their due diligence, the rest will enjoy "savings" at the expense of capitalism and free markets.

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#270627 - 2017-12-10 21:57 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,905
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,905
Loc: Norwich, UK
It is not about that though Not'arf, it is such a bigger picture than that.

Amazon are trying to take over and dominate the market place, they are paying no sales tax in may parts of the globe and paying no corporation tax either.

They have already got in place the systems to run staff free bricks and mortar stores, which when you consider the retail sector is the UKs biggest employer is a scary fact. It is ready to go.

To be fair, we can compete as we sell high end product that people like to touch, try on and make sure the fit is right, so I'm not too concerned for my own business. However, I am seriously concerned about the global domination and the rich poor divide that is happening.

Then we have people like Corbyn saying the minimum wage should be £21,000 a year in the UK, and the kids shouting "yay!" without realising they will simply be unemployable.
Why would I employ someone with no experience who needs training for £21k when I can employ someone who is up and running with experience and ready to go?
This will again cause pain and suffering to those who need help the most, but most people are too thick to understand basic economics to realise.

Why do I mention that?
Because my mate has just done a £300m deal with Amazon, along with 4 of the biggest supermarkets in the UK, to run their stores staff free. They are ready to move to 'staff free' stores, and when you consider the 4 big supermarkets also employee 50% of the retail workforce in the UK at some 1.5 million that is also something that could cripple this country.
The system could be put in place tomorrow and the funding to do so would be covered by the wage savings, and it would be paid for in full within 5 years.
So currently the only reason not to do it is one of morals.
However, up the wage bill by 30-50% and lets see how strong those morals are then!


We are walking into a world where we are supporting the great financial divide without even realising it, quite scary.



No Darling, I've had it months!
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#270628 - 2017-12-10 22:01 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: gIzzE]
Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
Loc: Manhattan, NYC, USA
it's far worse than that.

& here in the US(S)A, Amazon has a deal with the postal service (another taxpayer funded cash burn as in daily operating losses) where they pay pennies on the dollar for shipping that all other businesses and individuals must pay full price on.

i $hitcanned my prime years ago and recently had no choice but to buy a few small items on Amazon bc they put the stores that would carry said items out of biz, and i made sure to order those items that i knew would lose them money. not that it matters, since they lose money on every single item. nice biz model, if you can afford it.

of course Bezos is the riches man on the planet, because he makes up his losses on volume. tired

i also refuse to step foot in Whole Foods, and there's one literally down the block from me.

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#270629 - 2017-12-11 01:58 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: _M_]
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 422
Akimo Online content
Paranoid android
Akimo Online content
Paranoid android

Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 422
Loc: San Jose, California, USA
Trying to avoid Amazon is more complex than it might seem. The (immensely) profitable area of their business is their enormous (and significantly better than anyone's else's) web services (AWS) business. It is the profit engine that allows Amazon to do their retail experimentation.

To truly hurt Amazon, you'd have to convince a huge number of people to stop using the web, since so much of it runs on AWS these days, and since, with their customer-branded domain allocation, it's not easy to tell when a site uses them, unless you have pretty good technical chops.

It's a real dilemma for anyone trying to not patronize them.


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#270630 - 2017-12-11 07:57 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,590
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,590
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
I know people, including the posters here, who despise Amazon (& the coffee-chain majors etc) for exactly the same reasons that our parents despised supermarkets. In the 1980s (?) Sainsbury's open a supermarket on the edge of your town & that instantly threatened / put out of business your friendly butcher / greengrocer / baker. Those complaining thought that people really cared if they bought their leg of lamb from George the butcher after walking down the High Street in the rain, or whether they could just pick one out from the supermarket where they could do all their other shopping at the same time, and stay dry. For sure there are some who prefer to source some products individually but obviously there aren't enough of them or the supermarket-model would have failed. It hasn't & it isn't going to go away.

Amazon is just the same; a major that comes along & hoovers up the minors. Some people (typically older people) despise change & that accounts for a lot of the hate. They pay next to nothing in tax? That's the responsibility of the governments in question; to have in place robust tax regimes that don't allow Amazon etc to fall between the cracks. If the tax system doesn't collect a fair amount from a corporation, that's the fault of the tax system. For sure Amazon etc will have clever accountants working for them but tax systems need to be so robust that corporations can't fiddle them.

Yes, there will be workers in the warehouses that aren't paid much, but that applies equally to many unfortunate people in other walks of life. Millions are on zero-hours contracts. Worker-less operations? That comes down to change again & people's attitude towards it.

Back in the 1980s, we had the coal strike here in the UK. There was a great divide between those who supported the miners & those that supported the government & both sides were far more passionate than the pro / anti Amazon clans. There were then (according to Wikipedia) 142,000 miners in the UK, now there are hardly any, but you'll have to look very long & very hard to find anyone that thinks we should go back to having 142,000 miners in the UK. Change happens, some people hate it, some embrace it. Amazon is far from perfect, but like the "new" supermarkets, the model appeals to far more people than it doesn't.


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#270631 - 2017-12-11 08:30 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,259
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,259
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
I run my own ‘One Man Band’ business in the Motor Repair trade and have done since the early eighties. You don’t earn a huge wage this way but you do get a better quality of life IMHO.

I have found that my customers who become friends over time prefer the individual service and consideration I can offer. I have allies in the trade to whom I can send work that I am not equipped or don’t wish to take on. This is a win/win arrangement for all.

The only way you can compete with all the major corporates is on Service and value. I keep educating my clients one at a time to keep them away from the major chains and into supporting good local businesses.

This is easy to do with the real world stories of poor service and pure greed I come across on an almost daily basis.
You will never stop the likes of Amazon like you can never stop the tide, but business can adapt and survive. You have to build genuine relationships with your customers wereever they may be, and that could be the dreaded Facebook too. (I have customers competing on how well they feed me here, it’s great fun and they feed me well)
As a consumer I would not say “Don’t use Amazon” but I would suggest you build relationships with local business whenever you can as you may find this is better value in the long term.

You should all know a good Builder, Mechanic, Plumber, Computer 🤓 Window cleaner, Garder etc. Make the effort, take them for a pint or lunch. Think Global, Spend Local...


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#270632 - 2017-12-11 08:50 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,905
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,905
Loc: Norwich, UK
It is so much more than that Not'arf.

This is a monopoly on a scale we have never seen before with the end game being complete domination, which in itself is not anything new, what is new is the fact this will be done without staff.

We have to remember small business' account for over 50% of the UKs employment, with retail being the biggest employer in that sector, having someone like Amazon come along and getting rid of those employees is not what this country/world needs for a fairer society.


No Darling, I've had it months!
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#270633 - 2017-12-11 09:04 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,905
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,905
Loc: Norwich, UK
Originally Posted By Not'arf
Change happens, some people hate it, some embrace it. Amazon is far from perfect, but like the "new" supermarkets, the model appeals to far more people than it doesn't.


Yeah, it does, but I wonder if people have considered the bigger picture?

What happens when there are no stores on the high street?
With no stores there will be no cafes, no bars, no galleries, no museums, the city centres will die, they will be like the downtown districts of the States, no real reason to be there unless you have an office there.

We are seeing shop after shop after shop closing in the small market towns. Drive round the small towns in any county in the UK and you see more and more empty units, more and more charity shops, and the whole feel of the place changes. It is the small independent shops that make the market towns feel special, it is fact it feels special that makes it desirable, and the fact it is desirable that keeps people looking after the place, the shop owners, the local council etc. etc. If the town is busy the councils get revenue, the spend the money on keeping the pace looking and feeling great, as the shops disappear the revenue drops, the care of the place drops and we start to see the town struggle.
We then get less and less people visiting and using the town, so all you notice is less desirables that are hanging around, which in itself puts people off coming in.

Now all the above is happening in large parts of the UK as we speak, what really annoys me though is those who are moaning about how their town is feeling run down compared to 10 years ago, yet never support it, they are an Online generation of shoppers, and really don't get that it is them that are causing their town to crumble.


No Darling, I've had it months!
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#270634 - 2017-12-11 09:30 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
Loc: Manhattan, NYC, USA
Originally Posted By Akimo
Trying to avoid Amazon is more complex than it might seem. The (immensely) profitable area of their business is their enormous (and significantly better than anyone's else's) web services (AWS) business. It is the profit engine that allows Amazon to do their retail experimentation.



do you know who the first and still largest client of AWS was and continues to be? The C.I.A.

Amazon is a Deep State enabled monopolistic entity. it is NOT a supermarket from the 80s, nor does it compete in any normal capitalistic manner. please cite us a single supermarket or any other business that for well over 90 quarters in a row lost money on its core business.

let's go deeper down the proverbial rabbit hole, shall we?

Amazon is on the verge of monopolizing all $53 billion in federal government commercial item purchases in the United States. that means every single item the gov purchases, from paperclips to printers to whatever, will be ALL bought through Amazon. that's the monies gov stole from taxpayers btw. and who wrote section 801 of the National Defense Authorization Act that allows Amazon to effectively lock-down all gov purchases? why Amazon, their lawyers and lobbyists. to wit:

https://theintercept.com/2017/11/02/amazon-amendment-online-marketplaces/

let's descend a touch deeper. Amazon just recently launched their newest AWS offering entitled "Secret Region". you just can't make this stuff up:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/21/aws_secret_region/


basically, Amazon is a giant Deep State operation that is shaping taste, purchasing patterns and monopolizing that as well as controlling consumption, over time, all while putting any and all competition out of business. they work w/ Facebook et al. in tracking various patterns and skewing them, and we all know that Facebook was too invested in and essentially created by venture capital company In-Q-Tel. do you know who In-Q-Tel are? probably not. hint: the C.I.A.'s very own VC; to wit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-Tel

it goes far deeper, but i don't want to bore you and/or wake you from your statist slumber.

bonus: http://blackbag.gawker.com/amazon-is-the-scariest-part-of-the-cias-new-amazon-clo-1605847721



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#270635 - 2017-12-11 09:32 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: _M_]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,469
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,469
Loc: Europe
Merry Christmas and a happy new year.

smile


Always learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.
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#270636 - 2017-12-11 09:38 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
Loc: Manhattan, NYC, USA
Merry Xmas to you too mr ratbert.


oh, and Santa too has been put out of biz by Amazon.

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#270642 - 2017-12-11 13:37 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: _M_]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,590
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,590
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Quote:
for those of you that can't appreciate this allow me to explain

Quote:
those that defend Amazon are simply ignorant of the fact

Quote:
you are delusional or grossly ignorant to even make such comparisons.

Quote:
it goes far deeper, but i don't want to bore you and/or wake you from your statist slumber.

I'm not entirely sure that the above tone is quite what HH strives for.


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#270643 - 2017-12-11 13:45 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 1,746
MI' Online content
Knows where his towel is
MI' Online content
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 1,746
Loc: United Kingdom
I did order a rather nice CD from them though


Under review
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#270646 - 2017-12-11 14:32 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
Loc: Manhattan, NYC, USA
glad you're able to focus on the most salient points and facts. guess it's easier that way.

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#270668 - 2017-12-12 18:59 Re: Amazon drivers forced to deliver 200 parcels a day with no time for toilet break [Re: _M_]
Registered: 2006-01-14
Posts: 615
ISB Offline
Paranoid android
ISB Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2006-01-14
Posts: 615
Loc: Gregory, Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By _M_
Merry Xmas to you too mr ratbert.
I thought I read Mr. Robot at first wink

It does seem to me that the nature of the displacement that Amazon is achieving is different from the examples such as supermarkets displacing small grocers. The capital markets have provided the CF to Amazon to allow such a long run of operating losses in their core business. Other than tech euphoria, I think many investors are looking at a long game of Amazon gaining a monopoly position and the pricing power that will come with it.

This seems to me to be the same as a foreign government subsidizing prices of goods (ex. steel) until the domestic industry has been eliminated. One can believe in free trade, but still consider "dumping" to be an anti-competitive behavior.


Cheers, Ian

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