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#272812 - 2018-02-07 21:00 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: ISB]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,258
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,258
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
Quote:
Analogue signals are converted via a 24-bit Delta-Sigma converter to high-sample-rate digital on input to the processor, while all digital signals are reclocked to minimise jitter and maintain total data integrity.
I read the above from the G61R manual. I suppose the idea of ‘Total data integrity’ has changed.


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
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#272829 - 2018-02-08 07:54 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,481
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,481
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Or total data integrity applies to the digital signal. Good old Meridian marketing speak - always so easy to interpret in one way when it really means another lesser thing.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#272870 - 2018-02-08 16:14 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2012-04-07
Posts: 17
Don Bingaman Offline
Harmless
Don Bingaman Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2012-04-07
Posts: 17
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
"Total Data Integrity" to me means that if an analog signal goes into a Meridian box (G61-68, 861, etc.) and undergoes A-D-A processes, then what comes OUT as analog should match what went in, (minus any changes the DSP's apply for MRC, etc.). Such would be the case if the ADC and DAC were perfectly matched.

Since the Meridian ADC and DAC run on the same processors, using all Meridian firmware, the conversions SHOULD be perfectly matched, obviating the need for MQA rendering corrections inside a Meridian box, provided the analog signal that comes INTO the box has already been "cleansed" of these issues. MQA is, according to my reading, a way to cleanse away the sins of the world, (kind of like Communion in the Catholic liturgy), but once an analog signal is rendered, it need not be "re-rendered" if it is processed at a high enough sample rate (96 Khz / 24 bit) using perfectly matched A-D-A processors.

What this means is that MQA doesn't really need to be done inside a Meridian surround processor, IF the original digital source is encoded in MQA and decoded into "pristine analog" by an MQA reconstruction filter / renderer, AT LEAST IN A MATERIAL SENSE. Technically there could still be artifacts, but I have a hard time believing any of them would be audible in any playback system that doesn't terminate in a set of headphones. I think this even applies to Meridian DSP loudspeakers, since the reverberant field in the room will surely screw up the tiny timing differences that escape what a 96 Khz sample rate reconstruction filter would miss.

Since there are no 5.1 headphones that I know of, that explains Meridian's fixation on MQA for stereo exclusively, better than any other explanation I have heard here or any place else.


#1 G68XXD, UHD722, Oppo UHD-205 Player, BAT VK6200, Vandersteen Quatro Wood, VCC5, VSM1 speakers, Audiokinesis Swarm subwoofer system, Pass XP-25, VPI HW-19 Mk. 4 with FR64fx arm and Koetsu Urushi MC, SOTA Sapphire TT with MDC-800 arm and Miyajima Shilabe MC
#2 AC200, M6, Sonos
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#273307 - 2018-02-18 10:42 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Don Bingaman]
Registered: 2009-10-13
Posts: 152
Fitcaz Offline
Hitchhiker
Fitcaz Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-10-13
Posts: 152
Loc: SE England
Perfectly matched A-D-A convertors (ie true A to A conversion) are impossible without infinite sample/bit rates. Total data integrity might mean perfect A to A conversion to you, but to me means no loss of digital data (it would be nice if it did mean the former).

So I assume that once MQA is converted into an analogue signal all treatments/paths degrade the signal eg amplifier distortion, crossover distortion and phase irregularities and loudspeaker driver distortion, compression, frequency response etc. However, MQA may still sound "better" decoded and played through a Meridian processor to an analogue system than a another none MQA source digitally decoded in the Meridian.

There are 5.1 headphones available.


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#273335 - 2018-02-19 06:29 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Fitcaz]
Registered: 2012-04-07
Posts: 17
Don Bingaman Offline
Harmless
Don Bingaman Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2012-04-07
Posts: 17
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Nothing on Earth is PERFECT, BUT if the A-D-A process happens within a Meridian box with a common clock, matched firmware, and running on THE EXACT SAME DSP's, and apodizing reconstruction filters, it is as close to perfect as it is going to get. and probably better than any process running on unmatched or even dissimilar ADC's and DAC's with re-created clocks on both ends. MQA is, after all a "fix" for unmatched A-D-A processing to begin with.

All I am saying is that if the Oppo can internally, clean-up the received digital file using MQA firmware and a good DAC to create a pristine analog file, it stands to reason that said analog file can be safely re-digitized, processed and reconstructed without MATERIALLY introducing new errors, provided there is "good" matching in the final Meridian A-D-A process.

So exactly how GOOD is Meridian's A-D-A chain ? It has to be good enough to support MQA correction, which means probably pretty good. Empirical proof - I have had a set of "golden ears" in my sound room on a number of occasions and run my vinyl set-up both through and around my G68 at matched levels.

The "golden ears" could not tell the difference between the original and the digitized and reconstructed sound (to their astonishment.) If it can pass this test, it can pass a MQA-processed analog file MATERIALLY INTACT. (My analog chain consists of a SOTA Sapphire TT, MDC-800 tonearm, Miyajima Shilabe MC Phono cartridge, driving a Pass XP-25 preamplifier, playing various Sheffield Labs Direct-to-Disk records. Certainly not the most expensive analog system in the world, but likely better than most.)

I have heard multi-channel headphones and I am not impressed with their capabilities....kind of like a singing dog.


#1 G68XXD, UHD722, Oppo UHD-205 Player, BAT VK6200, Vandersteen Quatro Wood, VCC5, VSM1 speakers, Audiokinesis Swarm subwoofer system, Pass XP-25, VPI HW-19 Mk. 4 with FR64fx arm and Koetsu Urushi MC, SOTA Sapphire TT with MDC-800 arm and Miyajima Shilabe MC
#2 AC200, M6, Sonos
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#273336 - 2018-02-19 07:24 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Fitcaz]
Registered: 2012-02-07
Posts: 463
Neil H Offline
Paranoid android
Neil H Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-02-07
Posts: 463
Loc: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
It seems to me that the MQA process is able to provide a signal up to 384 KHz / 24 bit. To then reduce this to 96 KHz / 24 bit by whatever means sounds counter-productive.

Incidentally you can do this degradation with an Explorer 2 at small cost.

Neil


MC200, MS200, Oppo 93VL, G61RSL, Revivers, DSP5000.2, DSP5000C.2, DSP3100.

MS200, F80.
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#273338 - 2018-02-19 08:55 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Don Bingaman]
Registered: 2016-11-27
Posts: 180
Struttmaster Offline
Hitchhiker
Struttmaster Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2016-11-27
Posts: 180
Loc: Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...
Hi Don, if you are looking to integrate a bit of kit into your system to get MQA, have you considered a 218? You can get one for under a grand. Put it between your G68 and amplifiers and you will get up to 192k stereo MQA. Volume tracks in unison with the G68 so it works seamlessly for home theatre too.

Regards,
Andrew


HT: G68ADV w/LPS, HD621, 5000C, Marantz BD, 218, REL SW, analogue fronts & DSP5000 rears.
Office: Prime PS& HP amp, MS200, Director, Woo Audio WA2 (w/50yo Tung-Sol tubes), Beyerdynamic T1's
Family Room: Allo digi, 568.2mm, 598, 3100's, REL SW
Upstairs: SBT, Explorer2
BBQ/Party: Raspberry Pi, F80
Intel fanless NUC7i5 running ROCK
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#273508 - 2018-02-23 06:36 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Struttmaster]
Registered: 2012-04-07
Posts: 17
Don Bingaman Offline
Harmless
Don Bingaman Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2012-04-07
Posts: 17
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Thanks, Andrew. I may take a look at this option.

I can also just take the analog off the Oppo 205 stereo outputs into a dedicated analog stereo preamp and switch the front L&R channels between the G68 and the analog preamp for MQA files. (I have the parts for a Pass B-1 with a Korb NuTube gain device, which would work great here... I am just waiting for Nelson Pass to send me a PCB !)

At this point there are a lot of options for stereo MQA. I much prefer high resolution multi-channel, however, and hope MQA will eventually get there.


#1 G68XXD, UHD722, Oppo UHD-205 Player, BAT VK6200, Vandersteen Quatro Wood, VCC5, VSM1 speakers, Audiokinesis Swarm subwoofer system, Pass XP-25, VPI HW-19 Mk. 4 with FR64fx arm and Koetsu Urushi MC, SOTA Sapphire TT with MDC-800 arm and Miyajima Shilabe MC
#2 AC200, M6, Sonos
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