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#269732 - 2017-11-11 20:06 Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA
Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,126
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Ireland
The new U.S. beta firmware for the Oppo 205 UHD player "adds support for MQA audio files ".

Oppo205-MQA

Is there any reason that this cannot happen for the 203 player ?

~M~


Mostly harmless. Comfortably numb.
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#269737 - 2017-11-11 21:42 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Meridialien]
Registered: 2016-06-18
Posts: 94
Mel_Moon Offline
Hitchhiker
Mel_Moon Offline
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Registered: 2016-06-18
Posts: 94
Loc: GA, USA
Where it says 20X, one could assume that it applies to both tbe 203 and the 205.


861v8, 808v6, DSP5200SE, DSP7200.2HC, M6, QNAP TS451, 218 various other bits.
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#269738 - 2017-11-11 21:51 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Mel_Moon]
Registered: 2003-06-12
Posts: 725
Caldham Offline
Paranoid android
Caldham Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2003-06-12
Posts: 725
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
Release Notes:
This release is for the Oppo UDP-20x 4K UHD Blu-ray Disc Player.
Comparing to the current Official release version UDP20X-51-0922, the major changes included in this version are:
1. Added support for MQA audio files on the UDP-205.
2. Improved compatibility for recently released and upcoming Dolby Vision UHD Blu-ray discs and TV firmware.
...
Mentions 20x everywhere except the MQA reference which seems to be specifically for 205.

Maybe this is just for the analogue outputs and so not really relevant for 203.

Just guessing...

Chris


Lounge: 861v4, 800, MS600, DSP8000, DSP6000, DSP5500HC, 421
Study: MC200
Bedroom: F80
Gone to #2 Son: DSP5000, 598, 562v2,
Spare room: 500Mk2, 518, 519, 504, 101B, M3, D2500,
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#269739 - 2017-11-11 22:18 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Caldham]
Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,126
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Ireland
I did check both players' manuals and they both have 7.1/5.1/2.0 analogue out although it’s obviously been upgraded in 205.

It interests me because before I bought the 203 last Christmas I e-mailed Oppo and enquired about their intentions regarding MQA and was told they had no plans to support it. It would be a real pity as they recently became Roon-Ready enabled and there has been a lot of lobbying to get Roon to support MQA (beyond Tidal) and I expect the 203 would comfortably outsell 205.

~M~


Mostly harmless. Comfortably numb.
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#272716 - 2018-02-06 07:22 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Meridialien]
Registered: 2012-04-07
Posts: 17
Don Bingaman Offline
Harmless
Don Bingaman Offline
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Registered: 2012-04-07
Posts: 17
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Looking at Oppo's website, it clearly says the MQA firmware patch applies to the BDP-205 model only. I would guess also stereo only, but that is just a guess.

I think the best way to get MQA encoded content into a G68 and allow for room correction and Trifield is (for now), to have the Oppo do the unfold and rendering functions and output the signal as "pristine analog". At that point the analog is fed into a G68 analog input for complementary ADC, DSP and then DAC processing.

My experience with other analog signals (phono) is that the Meridian ADC and DAC processors are very, very well matched, and thus quite transparent since all this processing occurs at 96 KHz / 24 bit. As such MQA rendering inside a G68 is of little material benefit, as long as it's done correctly upstream to reverse the original recording ADC time dispersion and to convert the digital signal to 96Khz / 24 bit. I say this because I have compared the analog output from my G68 against a purely analog phono preamp (Pass XP-15) at matched levels and could hear no difference between the signal going through the G68 ADC and DAC processing vs. the pure analog.

Anyone else on this forum have a similar experience and has anyone done a comparison of a rendered MQA stream vs. the same stream after going through Meridian's own 96 kHz / 24 bit ADC-DAC processor's ?


#1 G68XXD, UHD722, Oppo UHD-205 Player, BAT VK6200, Vandersteen Quatro Wood, VCC5, VSM1 speakers, Audiokinesis Swarm subwoofer system, Pass XP-25, VPI HW-19 Mk. 4 with FR64fx arm and Koetsu Urushi MC, SOTA Sapphire TT with MDC-800 arm and Miyajima Shilabe MC
#2 AC200, M6, Sonos
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#272718 - 2018-02-06 08:00 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Don Bingaman]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,454
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,454
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Doesn't that just put back everything that MQA just took out, ie it puts back in artefacts from the ADC process and adds no compensation in the DAC process?


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#272720 - 2018-02-06 08:11 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,243
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
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Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,243
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
That may be true Ian, but you do have the best available analogue audio source file (according to MQA it’s the studio analogue sound) at the input of the G68. Would it mess it up so much given Meridians expertise in this area?

We always used to say GIGO, (Good in, Good Out) perhaps some listening tests are needed here.

Thoughts, Chris


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
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#272733 - 2018-02-06 13:24 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Don Bingaman]
Registered: 2006-01-14
Posts: 614
ISB Offline
Paranoid android
ISB Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2006-01-14
Posts: 614
Loc: Gregory, Michigan, USA
In the AD and DA processing within the G68 at 96kHz/24 bit, all of the timing accuracy that required >96kHz to capture in the MQA encoding would surely be lost. Whether that's significant to one's listening enjoyment?


Cheers, Ian

1: G68ADV (croaked), G98DH (also croaked), HD621, MS200 + Syles SL-S/PDIF, MD600 (2*4TB), , QNAP 469L (4*3TB), Mac Mini, Carver A-705x, Martin Logan Aerius
2: 818v3, Aragon 8008x3, Aerial 10T's
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#272760 - 2018-02-06 22:10 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: ISB]
Registered: 2012-04-07
Posts: 17
Don Bingaman Offline
Harmless
Don Bingaman Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2012-04-07
Posts: 17
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
If the MQA timing accuracy can't survive one more round through Meridian's OWN ADC / DSP / DAC chain, then it has NO chance of surviving it through your downstream analog chain - especially the loudspeaker crossovers. The Meridian solution is to go digital all the way to their DSP loudspeakers, HOWEVER, I much prefer my analog chain downstream of the G68 vs. direct connect to the Meridian loudspeakers. (I am using a BAT VK6200 and a 5.1 array of Vandersteen phase coherent loudspeakers). The Meridian speakers are theoretically superior electrically, but the Vandersteens are MUCH better acoustically. - at least to my (somewhat aged) ears.


#1 G68XXD, UHD722, Oppo UHD-205 Player, BAT VK6200, Vandersteen Quatro Wood, VCC5, VSM1 speakers, Audiokinesis Swarm subwoofer system, Pass XP-25, VPI HW-19 Mk. 4 with FR64fx arm and Koetsu Urushi MC, SOTA Sapphire TT with MDC-800 arm and Miyajima Shilabe MC
#2 AC200, M6, Sonos
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#272784 - 2018-02-07 15:47 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: Don Bingaman]
Registered: 2006-01-14
Posts: 614
ISB Offline
Paranoid android
ISB Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2006-01-14
Posts: 614
Loc: Gregory, Michigan, USA
What I recall from the original MQA discussion was that Meridian's earlier position that there was no value in going beyond 24/96 was based upon looking at frequency reconstruction and avoiding undesired filter artifacts. The subsequent research into the ability of the ear to detect tiny differences in timing accuracy caused Meridian to revise their position - higher sample rates are necessary to capture all of the timing information that we are able to hear. Since the vast majority of what is captured at higher sample rates is just noise, they were craftily able to package the desired information below the noise floor in a CD sized file. If that digital file is kept digital to the DSP speaker and unfolded there, all of the information should be able to be reconstructed. I think part of the SE upgrade is in the electronics to enable playback on the analog side of the equation in addition to MQA decoding in the digital domain.

If the MQA file is unfolded and converted to full analog goodness in the Opposite, for instance, I don't think that it's a given that all that goodness will survive A to D to A through the processor. Ideally, Meridian would offer a card upgrade to its processors to take in the MQA file and convert to analog internally. It was suggested that this would be made available for the 861.8 a long time ago. Currently, I believe that the 818.3, 808.6 and Ultra DAC are the only such solutions. Who knows whether bypassing the G68 to preserve all of the MQA reconstruction would be worth it compared to the loss of MRC and DSP modes.


Cheers, Ian

1: G68ADV (croaked), G98DH (also croaked), HD621, MS200 + Syles SL-S/PDIF, MD600 (2*4TB), , QNAP 469L (4*3TB), Mac Mini, Carver A-705x, Martin Logan Aerius
2: 818v3, Aragon 8008x3, Aerial 10T's
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#272785 - 2018-02-07 15:53 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: ISB]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,243
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,243
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
So does this mean that the A/D/A process applied to the analogue signal in Meridian G series processors damages the said Analogue signal?


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
Edited by ChrisLayerUK; 2018-02-07 20:56.
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#272811 - 2018-02-07 20:49 Re: Oppo 205 (only?) to get MQA [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2006-01-14
Posts: 614
ISB Offline
Paranoid android
ISB Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2006-01-14
Posts: 614
Loc: Gregory, Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By ChrisLayerUK
So does this mean that the A/D/A process applied to the analogue signal in Meridian G series processors damages the said Analogy signal?
My understanding is that it would. I don't have Meridian speakers, but it seems like on the early MQA demos, the speakers were displaying up to 768 kHz (i.e. 8x the 96/24 sample rate). The speakers aren't receiving a 768 kHz data stream, so I take it that whatever Meridian considers valuable (V, say) in the >96kHz sample rate is folded in below the noise floor and recovered in the D to A conversion within the speaker.

Unless the 96/24 A/D/A conversion of a full fat MQA reconstructed analog signal has the ability to do MQA like higher rate sampling, folding in V and MQA like reconstruction, I can't see how you would not lose V. Isn't this the main reason that 861 owners have been frustrated about no ID42 equivalent card having been available, even if only for 2 channel?


Cheers, Ian

1: G68ADV (croaked), G98DH (also croaked), HD621, MS200 + Syles SL-S/PDIF, MD600 (2*4TB), , QNAP 469L (4*3TB), Mac Mini, Carver A-705x, Martin Logan Aerius
2: 818v3, Aragon 8008x3, Aerial 10T's
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