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#269245 - 2017-10-24 10:17 Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) *****
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,463
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,463
Loc: Surrey, UK
A long time ago I played around with some after market power leads and concluded that they resulted in a different sound but I didn't prefer it (see here). I saved some money smile

In the years since, my system has changed as has my room. At the heart of the system is an 808v6 and 8KSE DSP's. Years ago I installed a dedicated consumer unit and ring main circuit but these are on walls where my system used to be. That is now 180degs around the wrong way for where it now sits. The power for the 8k's was therefore from an original house ring main in the main consumer unit. I decided to look at what I could do about this and put back a bit of separation for power to the system.

First up was installation of 2 new dedicated radial lines to each side of the room where the DSP's are located. These lines come from the dedicated consumer unit. One for each DSP only. "Why not?" I thought.

Around the same time I had noted the comments from Cleop and Crion on this topic.

I gave Shunyata UK a call to see what they had and what they might advise for DSP's. I talked at length with Guillaume Boyer and he put me in touch with the tech guys in the US. They had a lot of installs with Meridian gear and spoke well of the combo.

One of the first things they advised was to install the Euro/Schuko sockets if possible. These are solid connections and importantly run with no fuse in the plugs. Many of you will know these plugs in the UK as M ships gear with both UK and Euro cables. My electrician checked this and said it was legit so he used Schuko rather than UK sockets.

Guillaume advised he had some Denali 2000T units coming over and he would be happy to let me give them a go. It took a while and in the meantime I was able to test the stock M Euro lead vs some Russ Andrews Reference cables I had. I reterminated them with Wattgate Schuko heads for the test. Worth noting the RA plugs are built to last. Connections are all soldered inside those. Nice. Overall I think the RA cables performed well. Swapping back and forth made a small improvement over the stock cable but not huge.

Late Spring and the Denali's arrived. I asked for 2 units as the location of my DSP's and furniture means that I cannot really run one unit between the DSP's. Guillaume also lent me some Delta NR cables to test against the various leads I had been using. Denali uses a C19 high-current input connector so I modified a couple of Euro cables with new Wattgate plugs.

So, I ran with this for a couple of months. I was open to there being some effect or zero effect. Nothing taken for granted.

I ran several different combinations so I could try to isolate what did or didn't produce any SQ effects.

For example:-

Stock cables vs Delta NR cables (no Denali)
Stock cables into and out of Denali
Mixture of cables with Denali
Delta NR with Denali

Running demos over many weeks/months is a really good thing. There is definitely something about long listening over many styles of music, times of day, moods, weathers etc. I think the brain really does "tune in" to a sound/SQ and it isn't a quick process. However, once you have tuned in it is easy to swap between setups to notice the differences.

So, what is the result? It was actually very easy to hear a difference. With the Denali's between DSP and wall socket the clarity from the DSP's significantly and repeatably improved. The 3-D soundstage seemed to lock into place better. Everything seemed to be placed somewhere specific in front of me. Bass was clearer; voices and strings more credible and cymbals seemed to decay longer. On several tracks I did hear some new things especially low level sounds and really far back in the mix. There are probably a load more magazine type comments I could use but hopefully you get the gist.

I did several sessions with my trusted Mrs L and she picked 100% when I had Denali in or out of the system. She couldn't see what I was doing nor understood what I was doing when I made changes. It still sounded like my hifi but simply better in all areas I focussed on. Weirdly I was hoping she would hear no changes and I could then convince myself I was suffering from some expectation bias.

What about the cables? Having left the Denali's running with Delta NR for a few weeks, I swapped back to the stock cables. I was rather hoping that the Denali were creating most of the improvement and that I could stick with my existing cables. However, the Russ Andrews Ref and stock cables with the Denali just didn't sound as good. Again Mrs L's ears picked this 100% of the swaps I did and she had no idea what I was changing. I then compared Delta NR vs stock cable into DSP and the difference is clear. I could demonstrate that both cables and Denali are having a positive impact.

In the Jan 2017 post I referenced above Crion shared some of the Shunyata videos. These are interesting but maybe my home is different. A few weeks ago and at the end of all my testing, Guillaume bought round one of the noise detection devices (Entech Powerline Noise Analsyer) he'd borrowed from the Shunyata team who had been in the UK for a visit. We tested them on my setup. Here are the results in short video clips:-

Video 1...plugged into one of my new sockets and set to about 100 on the volume scale on the handheld unit. This shows that there IS noise on my lines even though they come from a dedicated consumer unit. This is probably not a surprise as we know power delivery to my house will be noisy but still I was a bit disappointed. Settings were left exactly the same for all other tests for comparison.


Video 2...same socket but a Denali plugged into the OTHER socket. The noise level drops by about 15 units (exact same volume setting). This means that even though these are SEPARATE lines the effect of a Denali on one line is evident on the other as they meet back at the consumer unit. This was quite a surprise and perhaps goes to show how much our circuits are interacting with each other.


Video 3...what about the output from the Denali? This was quite a shock.


Now this is not a fully scientific test with spectrum analysers etc but it is just a way to audibly demonstrate whether something is or is not happening. I am glad I did this at the end of the tests/demos as it endorsed my findings rather than influenced them up front.

So, to reference back to my 2005 post where I wanted to know what might be causing a change in SQ, this time I had a pretty good idea from both extensive periods of listening (both casual and in "test mode") along with some indicative device measurements. Noise on the power feed into the DSP's is a very real thing (in my house at least) and reducing it is very beneficial.

I started out with a notion that I had given my system a pretty clean power feed and that the SQ from the Anniversary system would be hard to improve. The starting point is a very fine SQ.

I conclude that even this system is impacted by mains noise and I can say with confidence that the effect of cleaning that is very obvious. I had no idea just how much difference it makes.

I am really impressed with the Denali units and also the NR cables. They do seem to do what they claim and to the ears that we have in this house that is a very good thing.

Thanks to Cleop and Crion for their earlier posts. Thanks also to Guillaume who was so patient with me as I slowly went through my test cycles over many months.

Hope this is of interest to others who might wonder if there is still room for improvement in their setups.


Rgds,
Nick

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#269251 - 2017-10-24 11:14 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,442
CMB Integrations - Bruce Online content
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CMB Integrations - Bruce Online content
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So, did you buy the Denali's after the demo?


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
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#269264 - 2017-10-24 13:34 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,463
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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Registered: 2002-02-14
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Loc: Surrey, UK
Yes...I did.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#269274 - 2017-10-24 15:37 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2004-10-20
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GMT Offline
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Hi Nick

Thanks for the write up. Following your tests, would say that there wan't much benefit from installing the dedicated consumer unit?

Cheers
Tom


Main: G61 SL, 218 HD621, 2* 7200SE, 5200HC, DSW,3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
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#269275 - 2017-10-24 16:24 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2002-02-14
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ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,463
Loc: Surrey, UK
Good question. Originally with 5500’s and old room layout yes. When I had the new lines installed on 8kSE I also thought yes. Note huge change but I felt it was worth doing.

There is nothing on these lines except the DSP’s. They are separate from the other house boards until they join at the Henley block. The rest of my house if full of electronics just like everyone else.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#269287 - 2017-10-25 07:09 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2011-08-22
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Not'arf Offline
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A very interesting write-up.

If the results are so impressive, would you consider a separate spur / Denalis for your 808 etc?


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL Gibraltar 2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

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#269292 - 2017-10-25 08:17 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2002-09-29
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RGraham Offline
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Really interesting.

Would Shunyata have recommended a 6000EU if your layout made that possible?

I think the whole area of mains electricity and noise seems evermore complex. After good reviews and a strong recommendation, I have recently tried a CAD GC1 grounding box on my network, and with the NUC that hosts Roon ROCK, both with excellent results. But when I tried one on the case of a PS Audio P5 the result was mind blowing. I am looking at trialling a GC3 with my DSPs and 861/818. Whether our homes are just more fogged up now, I know not, but the reduction of harshness is impressive.

But it does sound like a Denali would do something really useful, without the usual side-effects.

Really appreciate these insights.

Richard


Zone 1: 861v8+ID41, 818V3, HD621, DSP7200SE, DSP5200SE
Zone 2: 818v3, DSP7000, Cavalli Liquid Gold, Hifiman HE-6
Zone 3: 818v3, Roon ROCK/NUCi7, Densen B-330, Monitor Audio PL 200
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#269295 - 2017-10-25 14:18 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2017-05-27
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_M_ Offline
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i guess Bob Stuart et al. are idiots for saying the DSP's sound best when plugged directly into regular outlet.

and 80% of the markup of the Denali are in that case and feet.

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#269296 - 2017-10-25 15:10 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: _M_]
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Altus Offline
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I don't think they are idiots at all but then neither is Nick. My experience of the Shunyata products on high end analogue equipment, also with a dedicated mains supply, mirrors Nick's findings exactly.


Streaming: Roon, NUC, QNAP869 NAS
2ch system: Ultra DAC, analogue amps and speakers
Retro system: 101/104/105, analogue speakers
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#269310 - 2017-10-25 23:32 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Altus]
Registered: 2010-02-09
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Great post and your effort much appreciated. I often struggle in this area as it is hard to do an A/B comparison. Thank you for doing it for us.

John


1: 808.5 Anniversary, 504, Oppo BDP-103, Apple TV, HD621, 861v8, 7200SEU l/r/c, 33 sides, 5200 rear, Sim2 Lumis & Schneider lens, Stewart Filmsreen, SR20 fuses where they count
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#269313 - 2017-10-26 08:29 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Altus]
Registered: 2002-02-14
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ncpl Offline
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Originally Posted By Not'arf
A very interesting write-up.
If the results are so impressive, would you consider a separate spur / Denalis for your 808 etc?
Yes/ yes. The 808 is already on a ring main fed from the same consumer unit that the radials come from. That does not sit with the DSP so I didn’t have to link to the new radials. That circuit has skybox, Dune, ATV, Kuro media box, turntable. I tested that too for noise and it was similar to the others. It could actually be noise from those devices getting back into the radials as well as external noise on the house feed. I’ll try and test that theory by unplugging them all. Plugging a Denali 6000 here had the same effect on noise measurement.

Originally Posted By RGraham
Really interesting.

Would Shunyata have recommended a 6000EU if your layout made that possible?
I tested a Denali 6000 to drive the 808 and other units but didn’t add that to the write-up as I thought it better to focus on DSP for now. The results were very good and threw up some interesting things about phase.

On the 6000 there are 2 high current outlets (for amps) and 4 outlets for other front-end gear. So, it would be possible to run the whole system if everything was arranged in between a simple L>>rack<<R setup. Guillaume describes some clients that do exactly this.
IIRC Cleop drives both DSP’s from a single 2000T.

DSP speakers are an interesting challenge as they are both amp and front end gear (e.g. DSP and DAC). That was my original query to the US tech folks.

Originally Posted By Altus
I don't think they are idiots at all but then neither is Nick. My experience of the Shunyata products on high end analogue equipment, also with a dedicated mains supply, mirrors Nick's findings exactly.
Thank you (too kind wink ) I didn’t know you also had found the same.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#269320 - 2017-10-26 14:57 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Altus]
Registered: 2017-05-27
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_M_ Offline
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but this is not analogue equipment.

doubt M would chime in on this.

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#269323 - 2017-10-26 16:14 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: _M_]
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Jon Raines Offline
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Originally Posted By _M_
doubt M would chime in on this.
Very rare that "M" chime in on any subject.


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Ms200 x2,555.
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#269324 - 2017-10-26 17:55 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: _M_]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,385
VirusKiller Online content
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Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By _M_
but this is not analogue equipment.
Of course it is! The DSP8ks don't have class D amps...


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#269328 - 2017-10-26 19:39 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: VirusKiller]
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WR1325 Offline
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Hifi plays louder, has better dynamics, less interference (from fridges etc.) and also runs much cooler with a dedicated feed and extra juice.

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#269330 - 2017-10-26 20:48 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2017-05-27
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_M_ Offline
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sure, and you can also say that the tweeter is analogue too.

anyhow, there's no winning this debate. even if Bob Stuart says plug directly into wall bc it will SOUND BETTER.

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#269337 - 2017-10-27 06:11 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: _M_]
Registered: 2004-04-15
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Registered: 2004-04-15
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Originally Posted By _M_
even if Bob Stuart says plug directly into wall bc it will SOUND BETTER.
Did they ever say that? Or did they actually say (as I've been told, because I asked) that, in general, they did not recommend the use of power conditioners?


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#269339 - 2017-10-27 06:36 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2007-09-01
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Cmr600 Offline
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Originally Posted By VirusKiller
... they did not recommend the use of power conditioners ...
Yes they did say that.

I asked specifically when moving to Africa (due to outages etc) and was told that directly.


M Customer since 1991...

M Kit: 861v8+ID41, 8000SE's, 7200HCSE, HD621, Explorer 2, AD88

Non M Kit: 27inch Roon Touchscreen (Lenovo), QNAP TVS-871-i7-16G 8 Bay NAS, Philips 4k Ambilight TV, Hue Lighting System, TiVO, PS3, ATV (v.4) Shure SE846 Headphones & a whole lot of Apple stuff...
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#269341 - 2017-10-27 08:48 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Cmr600]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,463
ncpl Offline
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As a general rule I do think you have to be careful putting power conditioners/regenerators in front of any amplifiers. Anything that might limit power / current could be a bad thing. For this reason I never put my PS Audio regenerator in front of he DSP’s.

I was interested to read that other HHers had possibly found a unit that didn’t throttle power and had no downside to the SQ.

What I hope an open minded reader might realise here is that there might be exceptions to break the “rule”.

I have tried to explore why there is an improvement and at least w.r.t. the AC noise I have a pretty clear idea about that. I can’t imagine Bob S ever saying that noise on the mains has no effect on system performance. M builds power regulation into the DSP’s. Do we really think that M would say that the regulators in the DSP are the best that can ever be made? Of course not... that would be silly.
They don’t build DC filters in for example so we know they are not as good as can possibly be (@Viruskiller - you may be able to confirm this for me).

My conclusions are clear and I am pleasantly surprised by it. As I said above, I was prepared to hear no effect or even a negative effect. The reason I decided to write it up was exactly because of that. Next time I see Bob S I will ask him about it for sure.

Ignorance is bliss... and cheaper.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#269343 - 2017-10-27 11:23 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2004-04-23
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Originally Posted By ncpl
M builds power regulation into the DSP’s.

It would very interesting to assess the difference in power quality (noise etc.) at a measuring point after these internal filters but I expect that might pose quite a technical challenge.



Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, Vero 4k, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
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#269344 - 2017-10-27 11:25 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Cliff.]
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ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

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Well... at least empirically I can hear that cleaning the power that goes in has an impact on SQ, therefore, you can suggest that the internal power circuitry is not doing the same job. If it were then it would have no impact to clean what goes in.


Rgds,
Nick

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#269346 - 2017-10-27 12:10 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
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RGraham Offline
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I would also take into consideration that Bob Stuart does develop his thinking, or changes his mind. Would MQA exist if he couldn't?

Our home has seen an explosion of SMPS in recent years, if only to charge multiple mobile devices, and I cannot believe that the mains supply of today is the same as when the DSP SE's were last updated.

I note that the upgraded Triton from Shunyata also offers ground connections, which to my mind is another area for consideration... perhaps the Naim Forums were right....

But just great to hear of someone's experience, which anyone can test out with their own system. Yet if Meridian were offering us something new, I'd be in the queue

Richard


Zone 1: 861v8+ID41, 818V3, HD621, DSP7200SE, DSP5200SE
Zone 2: 818v3, DSP7000, Cavalli Liquid Gold, Hifiman HE-6
Zone 3: 818v3, Roon ROCK/NUCi7, Densen B-330, Monitor Audio PL 200
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#269350 - 2017-10-27 12:39 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: VirusKiller]
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_M_ Offline
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yes it was stated explicitly.

(i've never heard a difference in cables and wires and such...so i'm always skeptical, and particularly so of Shunyata, which to me is one of the more egregious audiophile oil peddlers our there.)

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#269351 - 2017-10-27 12:41 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
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_M_ Offline
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Originally Posted By ncpl
Ignorance is bliss....and cheaper.
and in some cases rationalized ignorance is more expensive grin

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#269353 - 2017-10-27 12:47 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
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_M_ Offline
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Originally Posted By ncpl
Well... at least empirically I can hear that cleaning the power that goes in has an impact on SQ, therefore, you can suggest that the internal power circuitry is not doing the same job. If it were then it would have no impact to clean what goes in.
yeah, ask Bob Stuart about that too while you're questioning him. i doubt M skimped on something as incredibly basic as power regulators inside their DSPs, esp their flagships, not to mention their basic power cords included w/ all equipment.

but of course, companies like Shunyata will blow lots of cryogenic smoke across quantum mirrors such that after extensively A/B'ing you'll convince yourself into a Schrodinger Cat state, yet keep those milled aluminum shiny footed contraptions bc just maybe -- no -- there must be -- the deep blacks much deeper-- and blacker-- yes--

and i think Bob developing MQA, which is his field of specialty; namely, psychoaucistics, or adding beryllium tweeters is very different than him trying to bend the laws of physics with wires & cables & limiting juice via the dark arts of a co like Shunyata.

& remember this guy that to date no one ever took him up on his offer let alone won that generous prize?:

James Randi Offers $1 Million If Audiophiles Can Prove $7250 Speaker Cables Are Better

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#269358 - 2017-10-27 14:29 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: _M_]
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ncpl Offline
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It is always interesting to create a thread like this... just to see one person post 50% of all the replies just to disagree.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#269360 - 2017-10-27 14:35 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
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_M_ Offline
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6 out of 25, well, now 7 out of 26, replies is not 50%

but who needs maths & science when you got Shunyata¿ laugh

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#269364 - 2017-10-27 15:48 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: _M_]
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RGraham Offline
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Originally Posted By _M_
& remember this guy that to date no one ever took him up on his offer let alone won that generous prize?:

James Randi Offers $1 Million If Audiophiles Can Prove $7250 Speaker Cables Are Better
Am I alone in thinking that $1million is just not enough to engage with James Randi? That is something seriously under-priced.

Kind of like the inverted social proof the Daily Mail excel in... I now want Pear Anjou cables...

Richard


Zone 1: 861v8+ID41, 818V3, HD621, DSP7200SE, DSP5200SE
Zone 2: 818v3, DSP7000, Cavalli Liquid Gold, Hifiman HE-6
Zone 3: 818v3, Roon ROCK/NUCi7, Densen B-330, Monitor Audio PL 200
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#269367 - 2017-10-27 17:30 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: RGraham]
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ncpl Offline
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No...you are not alone.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#269386 - 2017-10-27 23:03 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
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Mr Meridian Offline
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Hi Nick

Thanks for posting this considered review and taking the time to write such an informed report. Funds permitting, I'd go down this route, having previously found benefit from the Isotek Titan mains conditioner. It was superb on source components and the DSP5500s, good with DSP6000 but unfortunately detrimental to DSP8000s. I've been on the look out for a further upgrade to the 8k power supply for some time, in addition to the benefit of dedicated mains spurs/consumer units and dedicated earthing arrangements.

Cheers

George

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#269387 - 2017-10-28 00:57 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
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Just anecdotal, but I use a very old Shunyata device in my living room setup for both the amp and 818, and the minimal comparative testing I did satisfied me that there was a positive impact.


Living room: 818v3, Audio Research VS 110, Maggie 1.6, REL sub
A/V room: 861v8, DSP7200SE L/R/C, 4x DSP320 surrounds, ID41 + Roon, UHD722, Prime+PS
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#275017 - 2018-04-10 18:09 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Akimo]
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Thanks for taking the time to write up your experiences. I'd missed this thread when it was first posted, but was pointed to it by Guillaume of Shunyata UK.

Based on several other articles and your own tests (plus my own experience of RA cables), I decided to go for a similar setup, but with a single Triton rather than two Denali's (mostly because I was able to pick up a v2 relatively inexpensively on eBay and my budget had already been stretched by the SE upgrades!).

Both Shunyata UK and KJ West One have been really helpful, so my thanks go to both of them too. I should be up and running when the (gratefully received loan) cables arrive at the end of the week and I'll add my thoughts into the mix when they do...


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#275214 - 2018-04-17 10:02 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Ok, so after a couple of days running in, I have some feedback.

My testing didn't get off to a great start, but only because (overnight) Tidal had got rid of the MQA versions of my key test album (Coldplay, Head Full of Dreams) and I didn't immediately notice that the system was playing the Redbook version of the CD. I can't really blame the cables for not turning a normal CD into MQA quality!

Once that issue had been cleared up (and I'd managed to buy a copy of the album in MQA), all was resolved and it does sound absolutely incredible. My instinct was that clearing up the power would clear up the imaging where up until now there had been some shimmering and the positioning of the lead vocalist seems to either become blurred or continually sway left/right. With the Triton, the sound stage is now absolutely rock solid and the depth is more apparent than it was before.

I should add that, during the testing, I also connected my Roon player directly via the second ethernet port to the 818 (rather than via the switch) and temporarily removed the GISO isolator as I suspected that was probably superfluous. That seems to have been proven an incorrect assumption, as adding the GISO back in not only improved the sound, but showed that running an ethernet cable direct to the 818 is a very beneficial thing to do.

The combined changes (including the upgrade to the SE models) have made this system sound quite incredible. Hats off to both Meridian and Shunyata!

Less of a hats off to Tidal for removing MQA albums when they feel like it.

PS I think it's only fair to add that, as mentioned earlier in the thread, I also have some Russ Andrews cables. I wasn't expecting to hear a difference with these when they arrived and I did, which is what got this whole thing started and I began exploring the various options available to take this to its logical conclusion. Ultimately, it turned out to be an expensive road, but one worth travelling.


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
Edited by Jeremy A-H; 2018-04-17 17:00.
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#275218 - 2018-04-17 11:02 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2009-11-10
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CMB Integrations - Bruce Online content
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Glad to see yet another positive experience with the Shunyata products and DSP speakers. Of course upgrading to SE is pretty serious as well. Enjoy.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Trinnov Altitude 32-8-16, 818v3, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#275221 - 2018-04-17 13:01 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Ogri Offline
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Originally Posted By Jeremy A-H
I should add that, during the testing, I also connected my Roon player directly via the second ethernet port to the 818 (rather than via the switch) and temporarily removed the GISO isolator as I suspected that was probably superfluous. That seems to have been proven an incorrect assumption, as adding the GISO back in not only improved the sound, but showed that running an ethernet cable direct to the 818 is a very beneficial thing to do
Could you run through this again, is this bridging?

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#275229 - 2018-04-17 16:26 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
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Originally Posted By CMB Integrations - Bruce
Glad to see yet another positive experience with the Shunyata products and DSP speakers. Of course upgrading to SE is pretty serious as well. Enjoy.
Thank you, I'm extremely happy with the setup now smile It certainly goes beyond what I had anticipated.

The SE/818v3 combo really is a game changer. That said, people shouldn't underestimate how much of the performance the 818v3 brings to the party - this upgrade (to my mind) really brings the SE's to life.


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
Edited by Jeremy A-H; 2018-04-17 19:51.
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#275231 - 2018-04-17 16:45 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Ogri]
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Originally Posted By Ogri
Could you run through this again, is this bridging?
No, I don't believe it is bridging, I've included the details below... Incidentally, I should be a little more specific and say I am running Roon ROCK, but the principles remain the same.

If you have two ethernet ports, ROCK will display both interfaces in the web config page and allows you to setup the first (labelled 'Ethernet') as your main network and the second (labelled 'Ethernet 2') as the link to the 818's ID41 input. Testing seems to show, if you set these ports up the other way around, Roon won't be able to talk to the ID41.

The fact I am unable to see the ID41 from the main network suggests it isn't bridging, but treating the two as separate networks. So the only ethernet traffic I have on the ID41's network is the music being played, nothing else.

If you want to try this, the recommendation is to setup the second ethernet with:

IP 5.1.1.1
Netmast 255.255.255.0
Router/Gateway: blank
DNS Server: blank

and the ID41 the same, but with an IP address of 5.1.1.2

Hope this helps,
Jeremy


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#275247 - 2018-04-17 20:20 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Thanks, I don’t have Rock. I understood a switch was necessary for traffic routing, unless there was “bridging” by the device. Not having such a device, I haven’t had a play.

If it increases SQ, I’m surprised it’s not discussed a little more here (unless I missed something?). I’m aware of the idea being well discussed elsewhere but I’ve not had a play. Interesting. Thanks.

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#275248 - 2018-04-17 20:45 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Ogri]
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I was very sceptical about it improving sound quality and therefore hadn't tried it before now (and, for all I know, without the other upgrades I've just made, there may not have been any noticeable difference), so I'm not surprised this doesn't come up much (it's also dependant on having two network interfaces, which will further reduce the numbers of people trying this).

There is some support behind this theory, though, as Meridian said noise coming from outside components was something they've worked hard to reduce the influence of and many of the high-end music servers provide two ethernet ports (and some even recommend USB over ethernet) for this reason.

As always, your mileage may vary!


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#275514 - 2018-04-26 12:43 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
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Only just come across ncpl’s good post!

I’ve been using Schucko sockets on my Russ Andrews power cables for years (which I changed to Wattgates and can certainly corroborate your finding that RA cables are built like tanks, and rather difficult to work with and reterminate!)

I also use a dedicated ring main for the aystem. There is certainly a difference and I’m also an advocate that long term impressions are far more useful than short term or quick A/B.

I wondered if you’d tried RA mains filtration? I have various purifiers and silencers, etc., which again made things sound better. RA also have a device called the ‘noise sniffer’ which you can hire for a small fee to hear crud on the mains (and the difference in removing it).

Are you tempted by ‘balanced mains’ units...?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#275663 - 2018-05-02 21:03 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: 3dit0r]
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Sorry, I've only just seen your post.

I certainly believe RA cables make a difference, however I wanted to take my audio path to the next logical conclusion and my particular path took me to the Shunyata Triton (rather than RA's mains filters). Having seen the difference the GISO ethernet isolator makes (likely to be retired for an Sotm ethernet filter), I would like to try balanced mains cabling but fear it may clash with what the Triton is trying to do.

I think my next step is to upgrade the Triton v2 to the Triton v3...


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#275667 - 2018-05-03 00:43 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Albert Offline
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Has anyone tried power condition with projector?


HT: Audiocom Oppo203 signature with Vanity HD/HD621 861v8, DSP6Ks(LCR), DSP5200.1
Revel b112 b110 AntimodeX4 JVCx790
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#275669 - 2018-05-03 00:58 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Cleop Offline
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Definitely upgrade your Triton v2 to the v3 -- you'll be very pleased by the improvement. There was a review of the v3 on www.audiostream.com a few months ago that I think accurately describes the differences.

On the balanced mains issue, I played around with Equitech balanced line conditioners years ago, but they always sounded thin to me. A friend sprung for one of their very expensive (and massive) wall units and swore by it for a long time, but then someone lent him an Audioquest Niagara 7000, and he was amazed at how much cleaner and more natural everything sounded (he wound up buying one).

I can't say for sure why that would be the case, but I do know both the Audioquest and Shunyata units are designed to isolate individual components from other each other, whereas the Equitech is basically designed to isolate the entire system from the outside world.

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#275688 - 2018-05-03 16:28 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Cleop]
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@Cleop Thanks for the additional info.

My background research seemed to show that balanced mains would improve the grounding by delivering a stable ground, unaffected by appliances that have ground as a sink for EMI noise, whereas the Shunyata Triton actually removes a great deal of noise from all lines (live, neutral and ground). This approach, along with the reviews, convinced me that this was the route to follow.

I agree the upgrade to the v3 is the way forward. My understanding is that the Triton v2 reduces mains noise by around 24dB whereas the v3 is closer to the Denali which reduces noise by an astonishing 60dB. I'm just waiting to find out whether Shunyata is now accepting upgrades from units outside the US...


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#275694 - 2018-05-03 18:07 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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RGraham Offline
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Originally Posted By Jeremy A-H
Having seen the difference the GISO ethernet isolator makes (likely to be retired for an Sotm ethernet filter)


Have you tried the Sotm filter? In the end I went for an Acoustic Revive Gigabit version. But Sotm are interesting and pushing forward.

Richard


Zone 1: 861v8+ID41, 818V3, HD621, DSP7200SE, DSP5200SE
Zone 2: 818v3, DSP7000, Cavalli Liquid Gold, Hifiman HE-6
Zone 3: 818v3, Roon ROCK/NUCi7, Densen B-330, Monitor Audio PL 200
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#275702 - 2018-05-03 20:33 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: RGraham]
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Originally Posted By RGraham
Have you tried the Sotm filter?
Not yet, but a SOtM dCBL-CAT7 Special Edition arrives tomorrow smile


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#275703 - 2018-05-03 20:43 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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RGraham Offline
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*Gosh*


Zone 1: 861v8+ID41, 818V3, HD621, DSP7200SE, DSP5200SE
Zone 2: 818v3, DSP7000, Cavalli Liquid Gold, Hifiman HE-6
Zone 3: 818v3, Roon ROCK/NUCi7, Densen B-330, Monitor Audio PL 200
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#275706 - 2018-05-03 21:49 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: RGraham]
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Let's hope it lives up to its reputation!


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#275707 - 2018-05-03 22:07 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Cleop]
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Originally Posted By Cleop
Definitely upgrade your Triton v2 to the v3
It sounds like you've already taken this path (from v2 to v3)?


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#275710 - 2018-05-03 23:47 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Cleop Offline
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Yes. I also tried a Denali, which was better than the v2, but the Triton v3 was better still. I'm expecting one of the new Typhon QR's to be delivered any day to go with the v3 (in for a penny, in for a pound). I'll post my impressions of that after I've had a chance to listen to the combo for a while.

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#275711 - 2018-05-04 02:09 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Cleop]
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Let us know how you get on with the Typhon. Right now, I'm hoping I'm going to be allowed by Shunyata to do the upgrade to the v3, until then the Typhon option is a distant dream...


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#275712 - 2018-05-04 02:26 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Albert Offline
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Looks like everyone is using shunyata,how is it compare to say isotek or psaudio
triton v3 vs ps p10 vs isotek titan evo3?
deneli vs p5 vs isotek segmas evo3?


HT: Audiocom Oppo203 signature with Vanity HD/HD621 861v8, DSP6Ks(LCR), DSP5200.1
Revel b112 b110 AntimodeX4 JVCx790
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#275713 - 2018-05-04 03:15 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Albert]
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Cleop Offline
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I've never tried the Isotek products -- they're not very common here in the U.S. I also haven't tried any of the latest PS Audio gear, although I did audition several of the older Power Plant models. My reaction to them was the same as my reaction to pretty much every active isolation device I tried -- the noise floor dropped, but the music seemed less dynamic and a little harmonically thin.

My friend with the Audioquest Niagara 7000 swears it doesn't have those faults. I've never auditioned one in my home, but the reviews have all been glowing, so he may be right. I like the fact that the Shunyata products are passive because that means absolutely no buzz or hum, and there were also some earlier posts on this forum explaining how a failure of an active isolation device could damage DSP speakers by defeating their internal protection circuits (I'm not an engineer, so I couldn't tell you one way or the other).

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#275714 - 2018-05-04 03:39 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Cleop]
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Albert Offline
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Thank you cleop,did you ever use it with projector or TVs?
actually i am ordering one of above power product


HT: Audiocom Oppo203 signature with Vanity HD/HD621 861v8, DSP6Ks(LCR), DSP5200.1
Revel b112 b110 AntimodeX4 JVCx790
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#275715 - 2018-05-04 04:42 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Albert]
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Cleop Offline
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Funny you should ask. I used to have my video system plugged into a Sound Application Reference Line Stage (another well-regarded passive unit/surge protector from about ten years ago), but when I found I liked the Triton v3 better on my audio system than the Denali, I tried the Denali on the video system just for kicks and discovered the colors were noticeably more saturated. So, I sold the SA and kept the Denali for the video system.

I did not try the PS Audio Power Plants or the Equitech balanced line conditioners on my video system when I had them at my house.

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#275720 - 2018-05-04 09:49 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Cleop]
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Albert Offline
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Very interesting,thank you


HT: Audiocom Oppo203 signature with Vanity HD/HD621 861v8, DSP6Ks(LCR), DSP5200.1
Revel b112 b110 AntimodeX4 JVCx790
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#275734 - 2018-05-04 13:27 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Cleop]
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ncpl Offline
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Look forward to seeing your reports.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#277020 - 2018-06-12 12:20 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
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Quick update to say I've just had my Triton v2 upgraded to a v3 smile

I can't say how good the improvements are just yet as my unit just arrived back, but Shunyata turned around the upgrade in under a week.

[I've actually been without the unit for three weeks as both DHL (on the outbound journey) and Fedex (on its way back) managed to lose track of the Triton, so a true comparison between the two will be dependent on my perceived differences with a gap between the two.]


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
Edited by Jeremy A-H; 2018-06-12 23:07.
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#277067 - 2018-06-12 23:08 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Cleop]
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@Cleop Has your Typhon arrived yet?


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#277071 - 2018-06-13 05:28 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
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Cleop Offline
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Yes, I've had it for over a month. I just haven't gotten around to posting anything yet because my wife and I are moving out of our house for a major remodel and things have been very hectic. I'll try to write something next week.

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#277087 - 2018-06-13 11:10 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Cleop]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 188
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 188
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Super smile When you do get a moment, I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts.

Sounds like you have a lot going on at the moment!


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
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#277120 - 2018-06-14 22:25 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Jeremy A-H]
Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 188
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker
Jeremy A-H Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-08-29
Posts: 188
Loc: Hampshire, UK
I've had a little time to listen to the newly installed Triton v3 and, summarising, it makes my Meridian setup sound *extremely* musical.

What first drew me to Meridian was the warm, addictive sound of the A500 alongside their 568 CD player. This is a personal view, but, over the past 20+ years, I feel each Meridian upgrade I've made has had an Intel-like tick tock cycle between sounding accurate (as in sounding closer to real-life) and sounding engaging (yet with the accuracy of the previous generation).

The 818v3 seems to me to be part of the former (accuracy) part of the lifecycle and the Triton v3 effectively moves the sound on another generation, sounding even more lifelike, adding more depth to the performance - along with the addictive quality I like so much.

To my mind, the Triton v2 to v3 upgrade is perhaps as much of a game changer as the Meridian 818v2 to v3 (on 7200SE speakers). If you own a previous generation Triton, this is a no-brainer. If you don't already own one then definitely take a look at either the Triton or Denali, as I really believe this is one of the best upgrades you can make.


DSP7200SE's, Meridian 818v3, Antipodes CX, Shunyata Triton v3

[Using a mix of Alpha NR's, Delta NR's, SotM and AudioQuest Diamond cables]
Edited by Jeremy A-H; 2018-06-15 20:08.
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