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#269323 - 2017-10-26 16:14 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) ***** [Re: _M_]
Registered: 2007-02-06
Posts: 692
Jon Raines Offline
Paranoid android
Jon Raines Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2007-02-06
Posts: 692
Loc: Peterborough, UK
Originally Posted By _M_
doubt M would chime in on this.
Very rare that "M" chime in on any subject.


596, 504, 568.2mm, 562v2, 551, DSP5Ks smileys+3dB, DSP5.5kHC smiley, DSP420's, DSP33s, DSW1500, LG C8 OLED,
Sky Q silver v2 +2x mini’s, 3xKef ceiling speakers, 2xMSR+custom keys, Mac Mini, Modded Edge v1.6, ATV2, vMSR, Amazon FireTV4k,Mc200 1tb
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#269324 - 2017-10-26 17:55 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: _M_]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By _M_
but this is not analogue equipment.
Of course it is! The DSP8ks don't have class D amps...


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#269328 - 2017-10-26 19:39 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2015-12-17
Posts: 7
WR1325 Offline
Harmless
WR1325 Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2015-12-17
Posts: 7
Loc: Leicestershire, UK
Hifi plays louder, has better dynamics, less interference (from fridges etc.) and also runs much cooler with a dedicated feed and extra juice.

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#269330 - 2017-10-26 20:48 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
Loc: Manhattan, NYC, USA
sure, and you can also say that the tweeter is analogue too.

anyhow, there's no winning this debate. even if Bob Stuart says plug directly into wall bc it will SOUND BETTER.

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#269337 - 2017-10-27 06:11 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: _M_]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By _M_
even if Bob Stuart says plug directly into wall bc it will SOUND BETTER.
Did they ever say that? Or did they actually say (as I've been told, because I asked) that, in general, they did not recommend the use of power conditioners?


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#269339 - 2017-10-27 06:36 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2007-09-01
Posts: 336
Cmr600 Offline
Hitchhiker
Cmr600 Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2007-09-01
Posts: 336
Loc: Nairobi, Kenya
Originally Posted By VirusKiller
... they did not recommend the use of power conditioners ...
Yes they did say that.

I asked specifically when moving to Africa (due to outages etc) and was told that directly.


M Customer since 1991...

M Kit: 861v8+ID41, 8000SE's, 7200HCSE, HD621, Explorer 2, AD88

Non M Kit: 27inch Roon Touchscreen (Lenovo), QNAP TVS-871-i7-16G 8 Bay NAS, Philips 4k Ambilight TV, Hue Lighting System, TiVO, PS3, ATV (v.4) Shure SE846 Headphones & a whole lot of Apple stuff...
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#269341 - 2017-10-27 08:48 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Cmr600]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
Loc: Surrey, UK
As a general rule I do think you have to be careful putting power conditioners/regenerators in front of any amplifiers. Anything that might limit power / current could be a bad thing. For this reason I never put my PS Audio regenerator in front of he DSP’s.

I was interested to read that other HHers had possibly found a unit that didn’t throttle power and had no downside to the SQ.

What I hope an open minded reader might realise here is that there might be exceptions to break the “rule”.

I have tried to explore why there is an improvement and at least w.r.t. the AC noise I have a pretty clear idea about that. I can’t imagine Bob S ever saying that noise on the mains has no effect on system performance. M builds power regulation into the DSP’s. Do we really think that M would say that the regulators in the DSP are the best that can ever be made? Of course not... that would be silly.
They don’t build DC filters in for example so we know they are not as good as can possibly be (@Viruskiller - you may be able to confirm this for me).

My conclusions are clear and I am pleasantly surprised by it. As I said above, I was prepared to hear no effect or even a negative effect. The reason I decided to write it up was exactly because of that. Next time I see Bob S I will ask him about it for sure.

Ignorance is bliss... and cheaper.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#269343 - 2017-10-27 11:23 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,462
Cliff. Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Cliff. Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,462
Loc: South Wiltshire, UK
Originally Posted By ncpl
M builds power regulation into the DSP’s.

It would very interesting to assess the difference in power quality (noise etc.) at a measuring point after these internal filters but I expect that might pose quite a technical challenge.



Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, Vero 4k, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
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#269344 - 2017-10-27 11:25 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: Cliff.]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
Loc: Surrey, UK
Well... at least empirically I can hear that cleaning the power that goes in has an impact on SQ, therefore, you can suggest that the internal power circuitry is not doing the same job. If it were then it would have no impact to clean what goes in.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#269346 - 2017-10-27 12:10 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2002-09-29
Posts: 214
RGraham Offline
Hitchhiker
RGraham Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2002-09-29
Posts: 214
Loc: London, UK
I would also take into consideration that Bob Stuart does develop his thinking, or changes his mind. Would MQA exist if he couldn't?

Our home has seen an explosion of SMPS in recent years, if only to charge multiple mobile devices, and I cannot believe that the mains supply of today is the same as when the DSP SE's were last updated.

I note that the upgraded Triton from Shunyata also offers ground connections, which to my mind is another area for consideration... perhaps the Naim Forums were right....

But just great to hear of someone's experience, which anyone can test out with their own system. Yet if Meridian were offering us something new, I'd be in the queue

Richard


Zone 1: 861v8+ID41, 818V3, HD621, DSP7200SE, DSP5200SE
Zone 2: 818v3, DSP7000, Cavalli Liquid Gold, Hifiman HE-6
Zone 3: 818v3, Roon ROCK/NUCi7, Densen B-330, Monitor Audio PL 200
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#269350 - 2017-10-27 12:39 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
Loc: Manhattan, NYC, USA
yes it was stated explicitly.

(i've never heard a difference in cables and wires and such...so i'm always skeptical, and particularly so of Shunyata, which to me is one of the more egregious audiophile oil peddlers our there.)

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#269351 - 2017-10-27 12:41 Re: Power Conditioning DSP8000SE (Part 2) [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 152
Loc: Manhattan, NYC, USA
Originally Posted By ncpl
Ignorance is bliss....and cheaper.
and in some cases rationalized ignorance is more expensive grin

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