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#282022 - 2019-01-22 07:36 Re: DSP life expectancy ***** [Re: Jack__Stack]
Registered: 2008-10-11
Posts: 486
Tarik Offline
Paranoid android
Tarik Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2008-10-11
Posts: 486
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Do you mean it won't respond to commands from the remote such as changing volume? Did it ever work and have you tried re-typing/configuring?

Can you describe the noise that comes from the tweeter or upload an audio clip somewhere and link here.

The firmware is what makes the speaker work. It is loaded from a PC via RS232 into each speaker. The latest is v5.21. What you are referring to is typing and configuration which is different from the firmware.


Lounge: DSP5200, 518
Snug: DSP33 x 5, 518, C61R
Office: M33

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#282039 - 2019-01-22 15:50 Re: DSP life expectancy [Re: Tarik]
Registered: 2018-11-22
Posts: 27
Jack__Stack Offline
Harmless
Jack__Stack Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2018-11-22
Posts: 27
Loc: Milwaukee, WI, USA
I bought 6 DSP5000 96/24's, a center and a sub. 5 of the 6 5000's work fine - I'm really enjoying a stereo pair and have loaned the other pair to a buddy.

The questionable 5000 does not accept retyping (I've tried a couple of times) - I hear music faintly out of the tweeter when hooked up into D1 (SPDIF from CD). Why would the amplifiers need to have new firmware - not saying you're wrong about this - just wonder why new firmware is required?

Frankly my plan is to hold onto one more pair of 5000's as spares/replacements - I do not immediately need them - but per the theme of this thread - these are gettin to be old speakers/amps and the darn things are pretty immediately addictive smile


DSP5000
Benchmark DAC-3, ...
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#282043 - 2019-01-22 18:57 Re: DSP life expectancy [Re: Jack__Stack]
Registered: 2008-10-11
Posts: 486
Tarik Offline
Paranoid android
Tarik Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2008-10-11
Posts: 486
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
A DSP speaker comprises a DSP/Com board which accepts the signal and does all the work such as working out what to do with the IR commands and also performs the DSP functions such as the crossover in the digital domain.

This signal is then fed to the amps.

The firmware is what controls the DSP/Com board. I would try uploading the firmware again to see if that helps.

Unfortunately if the DSP/Com board is toast you will struggle to find them anymore. I would suggest this is where the problem lies if the speaker is not responding.


Lounge: DSP5200, 518
Snug: DSP33 x 5, 518, C61R
Office: M33

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#282045 - 2019-01-22 19:11 Re: DSP life expectancy [Re: Jack__Stack]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,512
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,512
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
Worth checking you have selected CD on the MSR before trying to re type speakers.


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best:
GIK monster bass panels, rear wall. QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into DSP5200SE via 218 zone... Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2, Mini & Flex. 596v1, 518, Foxsat HD, Sony BDP, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos. F80

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#284046 - 2019-03-25 16:07 Re: DSP life expectancy [Re: Fiddler]
Registered: 2000-05-28
Posts: 8,672
Fiddler Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Fiddler Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2000-05-28
Posts: 8,672
Loc: Northeastern, USA
If you blow a DSP 5000 Amp Channel, chances are these are what blew. This happened twice to me. But is probably caused by powering up speaker when it's too cold, both times.
All 3 transistors in red circles are dead shorts.

Note there are 6 sets of these 3 transistors. 3 of one type and 3 of another. Same set failed both times (but different channel this time). My original fix with parts below has held up for 10 years and still working.

Keep in mind this image is a link. Download for safe keeping.



The parts were ordered from https://www.mouser.com/ 10 years ago. Luckily I had ordered one spare set, hopefully I can find them.

These part numbers might not be valid today.

No. Ordered Shipped
1 863-BD140G 2 2 0 0.480 0.96
ON Semiconductor Transistors Bipol
1.5A 80V 12.5W PNP
ECCN:EAR99

2 512-MPSA93 2 2 0 0.130 0.26
Fairchild Small Signal Transistors
PNP Transistor
ECCN:EAR99

3 863-MJ15003G 2 2 0 3.290 6.58
ON Semiconductor Transistors Bipol
20A 140V 250W NPN
ECCN:EAR99
Freight


- Fiddler (IMHO)

If you think listening to music is fun, try learning an instrument.
HT: G61RSL, 4x5K, 5.5KHC, 2xSC6000, Transporter, HD621, Philips BDP7501 4K, Tivo, 65" LG OLED 4K C6
Computer: Foobar2000, 5K, Mojo, HiFiMan HE1000 V2
Edited by Fiddler; 2019-03-25 16:25.
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#284047 - 2019-03-25 16:22 Re: DSP life expectancy [Re: Fiddler]
Registered: 2000-05-28
Posts: 8,672
Fiddler Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Fiddler Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2000-05-28
Posts: 8,672
Loc: Northeastern, USA
To my surprise when I had gone through 15 DSP 5000's a year ago or so and posted about earlier in this thread, I had checked ONE of my newest DSP 5000 (Smiley) and it already had the more vulnerable 330 Ohm resistor with the high 4W style installed and the 680 Ohm was the lower watt (1 W?) style. But it was sparkling shiny. So I did not replace the resistors or bother to check the sister speaker.

When I went to open my blown DSP 5000 I was shocked to see the 680 Ohm Resistor really cooked. It was not the cause of the failure but definitely needed to be replaced. It was so badly cooked I thought for sure it was what blew, but it still measured spot on 680 ohms. I think I had inspected the other DSP 5000 sister and it is still sparkling (i.e. no signs of heat damage).

So my comments of the newest DSP 5000's likely not needing the resister upgrade/replacement was wrong, they do. Even if they look good, at this point I'd replace them.

Still don't understand why 18bit DSP's don't have the issue with both resistors being the low watt style.


- Fiddler (IMHO)

If you think listening to music is fun, try learning an instrument.
HT: G61RSL, 4x5K, 5.5KHC, 2xSC6000, Transporter, HD621, Philips BDP7501 4K, Tivo, 65" LG OLED 4K C6
Computer: Foobar2000, 5K, Mojo, HiFiMan HE1000 V2
Edited by Fiddler; 2019-03-26 00:00.
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#284053 - 2019-03-25 17:33 Re: DSP life expectancy [Re: Fiddler]
Registered: 2012-05-01
Posts: 83
RobinASU Offline
Mostly harmless
RobinASU Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-05-01
Posts: 83
Loc: San Francisco, California, USA
In my case, with my M60’s, the positive and negative rail LDO’s had different internal impedances. The DSP5000’s seem to use similar amp boards with a seperate DSP input board connected. The amp board seems to vary over the years as running changes were made. On my boards, the LDO’s were from different manufacturers. Either Meridian did not expect the different impedances or they drifted over time, which can happen and needs to be taken into account during design. One of the LDO’s has a lower impedance between Vin and GND and this caused higher current flow across the connected resistors compared to the other voltage rail, and over time, the resistors get crispy. I don’t know why they even have those resistors- seems unnecessary. Maybe to reduce power-on inrush? If anybody knows, please share.

I made the decision to match the the “good” power rail LDO current flow. The current and voltage supplied by each LDO to the analog input sections are low, so adding the resistance was not a problem. The resistor and LDO temperatures are now noticeably lower.

I recommend everyone rebuilding these amps to check the LDOs and replace all electro caps with something like the Panasonic FS series (10k hr caps). A majority of the caps removed tested very far from design capacitance. If you hear a ticking sound do not power the speaker until you re-cap the board. The tick is probably a marginally shorting capacitor.

Also, don’t over-tighten the toroid transforner mount. It can short the windings. Ask me how I know. I wound up adding some padding between the mount and transformer.

The tweeters also die over time. With no input signal you should hear a slight hiss from 2 inches away. If not, the tweeter is dead. Also, crackling sounds are bad (obviously).

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#284192 - 2019-03-28 23:27 Re: DSP life expectancy [Re: RobinASU]
Registered: 2000-05-28
Posts: 8,672
Fiddler Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Fiddler Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2000-05-28
Posts: 8,672
Loc: Northeastern, USA
After replacing the same 3 transistors I had in the past (posted above) I test powered it up and it didn't sound good, lots of noise. Luckily nothing further blew (that I know of), no smell, no blown fuse.

There is a row of 4 small glass diodes. In the same area as the blown transistors.
Two of the diodes were blown (shorted). One of the two 5.1V Zeners and one of the generic "jelly bean" diodes (I'll get details on that if needed).

So it powers up all quiet now. I've been testing it at work where I have a very old beaten pair of 18 bit DSP5000's, with 7 segment displays. The backs I'm repairing are from DSP5000 Smiley (their cabinets are 125 miles north)

When I hooked them up the 7-segment displays just constantly flash every LED. I was not sure if there were more problems or just not compatible and need to test with a Smiley Display.
I then tried my 2nd Smiley back in the same 18 bit/7-segment cabinet which I know is working and it did the same thing.

One other difference is these old 18bit are 220V UK Speakers with a step up transformer I use externally.

I have mixed and matched 18bit, 24 bit 7-Segment and Smiley in every combination you can imagine, as well as 240V vs 120V Power Supplies and never had any trouble.

Am I just forgetting something? Is the cable different or something. I think the repair is good, but I'd like to confirm before bringing them back north. And I prefer not rip apart yet another smiley to verify.
I vaguely recall this blinking issue, like if it's plugged in backwards or off by 1 pin. But I triple checked. Red stripe to red stripe.

Any ideas?

One thought is when I tested earlier with the blown diodes maybe I damaged the power supply.


- Fiddler (IMHO)

If you think listening to music is fun, try learning an instrument.
HT: G61RSL, 4x5K, 5.5KHC, 2xSC6000, Transporter, HD621, Philips BDP7501 4K, Tivo, 65" LG OLED 4K C6
Computer: Foobar2000, 5K, Mojo, HiFiMan HE1000 V2
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#284193 - 2019-03-28 23:33 Re: DSP life expectancy [Re: Fiddler]
Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,526
Mr Meridian Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Mr Meridian Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,526
Loc: Perthshire, Scotland
Hi George

Wasn't the speaker firmware different for 7 segment and later dot matrix models? Could that be it?

Cheers

George

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#284194 - 2019-03-28 23:35 Re: DSP life expectancy [Re: Fiddler]
Registered: 2005-05-11
Posts: 73
swpnt Online content
Mostly harmless
swpnt Online content
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2005-05-11
Posts: 73
Loc: Woking, Surrey, UK
The firmware is different between the 7-segment and the dot-matrix displays (as on the smileys) and would cause the issues you describe.

Flash them with the latest 7-segment firmware and all should be fine when connected to 7-segment displays.

Good luck,

Steve


Main: 861v4 (LPS), 808.3, HD621, DSP6k, DSP5200HC, DSP33, SW1600, MC200,Sky HD, Cambridge Audio BD, C10
Office: 818v3, 800v4, 557, MF MC2s, Mac Mini
Office2: 561, M3
Spare: 100 Series,200 Series,500 Series, M60, M60C, DSP5k(s), DSP5kC, C15
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#284195 - 2019-03-29 00:16 Re: DSP life expectancy [Re: swpnt]
Registered: 2000-05-28
Posts: 8,672
Fiddler Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Fiddler Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2000-05-28
Posts: 8,672
Loc: Northeastern, USA
I just logged on to report that. I forgot about firmware. Thanks.


- Fiddler (IMHO)

If you think listening to music is fun, try learning an instrument.
HT: G61RSL, 4x5K, 5.5KHC, 2xSC6000, Transporter, HD621, Philips BDP7501 4K, Tivo, 65" LG OLED 4K C6
Computer: Foobar2000, 5K, Mojo, HiFiMan HE1000 V2
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#284196 - 2019-03-29 01:32 Re: DSP life expectancy [Re: Fiddler]
Registered: 2000-05-28
Posts: 8,672
Fiddler Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Fiddler Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2000-05-28
Posts: 8,672
Loc: Northeastern, USA
All working.


- Fiddler (IMHO)

If you think listening to music is fun, try learning an instrument.
HT: G61RSL, 4x5K, 5.5KHC, 2xSC6000, Transporter, HD621, Philips BDP7501 4K, Tivo, 65" LG OLED 4K C6
Computer: Foobar2000, 5K, Mojo, HiFiMan HE1000 V2
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