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#272422 - 2018-01-29 17:20 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Cleop]
Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 171
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 171
Loc: London, UK
Thanks for that. It described how wires can pick up signals/noise ( not new) but suddenly that’s coming out of the speakers raising the noise floor. The how was missing. These leaps from cause to effect are unconvincing without explanation but a showman can make them appear compelling. I get John Swenson’s points about grounding and current leakage, hence wondering about internal components/internal DC power.

I also get that amps need good power. I’d assume Meridian are aware of that and would have engineered a suitable supply. 8k power supplies are pretty chunky and I’m sure the National Grid can deliver. I’d assume they supply a cable capable of delivering the current required by their own power supplies. The conclusion would be that Meridian don’t quite understand what they are doing (even with the new high bandwidth amps in the SEs, unless they’ve changed power supply or cables), in which case 8k SEs are a bit of a leap of faith?

I’m not an engineer but just after some understanding, So thanks

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#272423 - 2018-01-29 17:21 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: NealXu]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By NealXu
so the issue is whether the supply can deliver the current required for enough time to blow the fuse.
Exactly. But it's also the double failure scenario, which must be very rare, but it has apparently happened - hence the official party line not to use power conditioners.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
Edited by VirusKiller; 2018-01-29 17:22.
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#272430 - 2018-01-29 19:54 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Ogri]
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Cleop Offline
Mostly harmless
Cleop Offline
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Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
I agree it would be good to know how AC line conditioners can improve a system's performance, not just for curiosity's sake, but because it would make it easier to purchase one based on what it can and cannot do. But I think it's more important to listen and determine whether a conditioner makes a positive difference (while posing no threat of harm), because that's ultimately what matters. For me, I've found conditioners can positively influence a system's performance (I don't think I'm alone in that regard), and in particular, I've found Shunyata's Triton V3 to be the best one I've heard so far. The proof is in the pudding, as they say -- but as with anything else, I also know YMMV.

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#272431 - 2018-01-29 20:30 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Ogri]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
VirusKiller Offline
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Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By Ogri
The how was missing. These leaps from cause to effect are unconvincing without explanation but a showman can make them appear compelling.
I'm half-way through that presentation and had come to exactly the same conclusion. I will watch the rest of it though.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#272435 - 2018-01-29 21:57 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Cleop]
Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 171
Ogri Offline
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Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 171
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By Cleop
But I think it's more important to listen and determine whether a conditioner makes a positive difference (while posing no threat of harm), because that's ultimately what matters
Can’t disagree with that. For me, trying to decide whether it’s “different” or better is made easier with a dash of science.

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#272439 - 2018-01-30 02:12 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Ogri]
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Cleop Offline
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Cleop Offline
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Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
I do agree often times different is not better. That's how I felt about pretty much every AC conditioner before the latest generation of Shunyata products (including the earlier ones from Shunyata). Which suggests there are a lot of people in the audio world who think they know what's important about this subject when in fact they don't.

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#272440 - 2018-01-30 05:26 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Cleop]
Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 745
Mtns Offline
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Mtns Offline
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Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 745
Loc: North Carolina, USA
So it’s different. Does it sound better to you? Will it sound different and better to me? If it doesn’t, it proves I don’t know what’s important👍 Got it. If it sounds better to you that is all that matters. Happy listening.


James
NC1: 861v4+ID40, 218, MS200 (to outdoors), DSP8000SE (upgraded). 5500VC, 5500s, Hsu Research ULS15x2, DirecTV, Oppo BD103, QNAP251, Roon
NC2-see FL 2 with Triad Silver Speakers

FL1: G61R, 218, DSP8000SEs, 5500HC, DSP6000s, MS600, DirecTv, Oppo BD103, QNAP469, Roon
FL2: Marantz 7005, M60s, M60C, M33s, Oppo BDP-93, MS200, Roon
Edited by Mtns; 2018-01-30 05:29.
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#272441 - 2018-01-30 05:45 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Mtns]
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Cleop Offline
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Cleop Offline
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Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
If something doesn't sound better to you, that only means it's not for you, nothing more. If something sounds better to me, that only means I like it, nothing more. There are no absolute rights or wrongs when it comes to people's preferences, and if it seemed like I meant otherwise, I apologize.

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#272443 - 2018-01-30 06:01 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Mtns]
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Cleop Offline
Mostly harmless
Cleop Offline
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Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
BTW, when I said there are people "in the audio world" who apparently don't know as much about AC conditioning as they think, I meant the people who manufacture and sell line conditioners that change the sound of a system without necessarily making it better. I did not mean people who frequent this forum who do not believe line conditioners are worthwhile.

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#272444 - 2018-01-30 06:59 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Cleop]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

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Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
Loc: Surrey, UK
Cleop, you points are clear. I have tried different power cables and declined to buy. They were different but not better.

I shared my experience with the same power products that you mention. I spent nearly 6 months testing.

I value other’s opinions but I think it is a bit to easy if we say that it is all just “differences” as if there is zero chance that we could ever find consensus on what was “better”.

I would be very surprised that if anyone here identified a better sound-stage and placement, better separation around the finer details on the music etc. and concluded that it was “just different”.

If we were deciding on the colour of paint for the wall I would absolutely say they are all different and all are just a matter of taste and opinion.

A 206, 506, 598, 808, all sound different but there is general consensus of which is better.

If we are focusing in on specific aspects of system performance then it must be reasonable to qualify that performance. E.g. the bass is better defined in scenario X vs Y, the treble has better decay, etc.

You can of course still have a preference but not all results are born equal.

Different and better (or worse) can co-exist.

Also, it does often seem that the views can be extreme on either side of the debate i.e.:

- I agree with the science therefore the difference ‘must be better’ (when it might not or I spent the money so it has to be better or I am stupid).

- I disagree, the science is BS, therefore it is just difference and cannot be “better”. Anyone than thinks so is deluded (even though I have never even heard the equipment in question and never will on principal. It is all snakeoil).

This often why debates collapse.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#272473 - 2018-01-30 19:18 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2010-04-24
Posts: 37
David Jackson Offline
Harmless
David Jackson Offline
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Registered: 2010-04-24
Posts: 37
Loc: Northern Virginia, USA
Hello Nick,

I just wanted to share my experiences with Power. I wish I could afford your speakers and I suspect that they are not as vulnerable to AC problems as mine are but I have found that the quality of AC Power supplied to my entire kit makes a significant positive impact to the quality of the sound.

My home is supplied by a dedicated transformer from the power company and the quality of the power in my breaker box is good but tweaking that power was the best thing I ever did to improve my sound quality. It is not that it is different, it better. In my opinion much of it has a lot to do with the noise transferred into the kit through the power cables which becomes audible even in my system (which is not nearly as revealing as yours). I am a firm believer that power quality improvements can benefit any high end system.

David


861v4 w LPS, G98DH, 218 for endpoint and MQA
Mac Mini w Uptone JS-2 LPS for Roon Server, 2x 7200SE, 2x JBL4312 Subs
2x 20amp dedicated AC power lines. Shunyata Python Helix cable to Shunyata Hydra 6, Synergistic Blk fuses. Ice Age AC Cables Optically Isolated Ethernet
Audeze LCD-2, iFI-iDSD Micro HPhone amp
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#272474 - 2018-01-30 19:46 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: David Jackson]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
Loc: Surrey, UK
Hi David,
Thanks for sharing. That is very much in line with my views above.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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